zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

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zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2528
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: California, Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - German (B2/C1) on/off study: Persian, Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby zenmonkey » Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:20 pm

Since I wrote that old Boston post, I've been twice. :lol: My 'new' wife is from Boston. (Oh, yeah, shhh, don't tell anyone. Not really fully shared - wedding in the times of COVID).
7 x
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar

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zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2528
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: California, Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - German (B2/C1) on/off study: Persian, Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby zenmonkey » Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:27 pm

The girls and I have been continuing our Duolingo work - I'm with the Yiddish Beta. A. is now mostly doing Russian and L. is focused on Spanish but she's obviously bored and doesn't think Duolingo is "any good". It certainly isn't any good for a B2 learner.
So we are talking about objectives and methods a little - and I'm good at giving advice but less so at following it.
L. is working on Spanish and German basically at levels that just need refinement through massive input or active structured output to deal with grammar and production.

Myself? I need to up my game with Yiddish. I'm actually doing a little more, writing and working with Anki but it is still a weak week.

I've picked up a bunch of stuff for Farsi for later. In January or February, I'll think about the 2022 language - either Farsi or Portuguese. I listened to the first sounds of Farsi with Assimil and Pimsleur and I'm suddenly highly aware that I don't know what I'm getting into. Daunting.

L. mentioned that she doesn't know how to learn languages. I have to agree that we aren't necessarily very good at language learning - most of my acquisition is through deep immersion - that's definitely how I learned French and German - every time I've tried to self-teach a language I've only gotten away with the most rudimentary acquisition. Brun Ugle, here pointed out in a conversation we had a while back, that my language acquisition has been mostly "cheating" - not in a negative sense - but to point out that methodical learning has also been driven by the "luck" of necessary immersion from living and traveling.

I still "trust the method" but know I need consistency for results.
Let's see if this next week I can be more thoughtful in the time I spend learning.
6 x
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar

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zenmonkey
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Posts: 2528
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Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby zenmonkey » Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:08 pm

Yiddish
Ok, I needed something a little more challenging in Yiddish and something I can dissect. And Something to work on my listening.
And I stumbled on this.



I'm a huge fan of various versions of Cohen's song.
Now I have something to work on for the next days weeks.

„הללויה‟ פֿון לענאָרד כּהן אויף ייִדיש
(איבערגעזעצט פֿון דניאל קאַהן; מיט דער הילף פֿון דזשאַש וואַלעצקי, מענדי כּהנא און מיישקע אַלפּערט)

געווען אַ ניגון ווי אַ סוד
וואָס דוד האָט געשפּילט פֿאַר גאָט
נאָר דיר וואָלט׳ס נישט געווען אַזאַ ישועה
מע זינגט אַזוי: אַ פֿאַ, אַ סאָל
אַ מי שברך הייבט אַ קול
דער דולער מלך וועבט אַ הללויה

דײַן אמונה איז געוואָרן שוואַך
בת שבֿע באָדט זיך אויפֿן דאַך
איר חן און די לבֿנה דײַן רפֿואה
זי נעמט דײַן גוף, זי נעמט דײַן קאָפּ
זי שנײַדט פֿון דײַנע האָר אַ צאָפּ
און ציט פֿון מויל אַראָפּ אַ הללויה

אָ טײַערע איך קען דײַן סטיל
איך בין געשלאָפֿן אויף דײַן דיל
כ׳האָב קיינמאָל נישט געלעבט מיט אַזאַ צנועה
און איך זע דײַן שלאָס, איך זע דײַן פֿאָן
אַ האַרץ איז נישט קיין מלכס טראָן
ס׳איז אַ קאַלטע און אַ קאַליע הללויה

אוי ווי אַמאָל, טאָ זאָג מיר אויס
וואָס טוט זיך דאָרטן אין דײַן שויס
טאָ וואָס זשע דאַרפֿסט זיך שעמען ווי אַ בתולה
און געדענק ווי כ׳האָב אין דיר גערוט
ווי די שכינה גלוט אין אונדזער בלוט
און יעדער אָטעם טוט אַ הללויה

זאָל זײַן מײַן גאָט איז גאָר נישטאָ
און ליבע זאָל זײַן כּל מום רע
אַ פּוסטער טרוים צעבראָכן און מכולה
נישט קיין געוויין אין מיטן נאַכט
נישט קיין בעל־תּשובֿה אויפֿגעוואַכט
נאָר אַן עלנטע קול־קורא הללויה

אַן אַפּיקורס רופֿסטו מיך
מיט שם־הוויה לעסטער איך
איז מילא, איך דערוואַרט נישט קיין גאולה
נאָר ס׳ברענט זיך הייס אין יעדן אות
פֿון אַלף־בית גאָר ביזן סוף
די הייליקע און קאַליע הללויה

און דאָס איז אַלץ, ס׳איז נישט קיין סך
איך מאַך דערווײַלע וואָס איך מאַך
איך קום דאָ ווי אַ מענטש, נישט קיין שילוּיע
כאָטש אַלץ פֿאַרלוירן סײַ ווי סײַ
וועל איך פֿאַרלויבן אדני
און שרײַבן ווי לחיים הללויה

Haleluye
Yiddish by Daniel Kahn from Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah," with help from Michael Alpert, Mendy Cahan and Josh Waletzky

Geven a nign vi a sod,
Vos Dovid hot geshpilt far Got.
Nor dir volt's nisht geven aza yeshue.
Me zingt azoy: a fa, a sol,
A misheberekh heybt a kol,
Der duler meylekh vebt a haleluye...

Dayn emune iz gevorn shvakh,
Basheva bodt zikh afn dakh,
Ir kheyn un di levone dayn refue
Zi nemt dayn guf, zi nemt dayn kop,
Zi shnaydt fun dayne hor a tsop
Un tsit fun moyl arop a haleluye...

O tayere, ikh ken dayn stil,
Ikh bin geshlofn af dayn dil,
Kh'hob keynmol nisht gelebt mit aza tsnue
Ikh ze dayn shlos,
ikh ze dayn fon,
A harts iz nisht keyn meylekhs tron,
S'iz a kalte un a kalye haleluye...

Oy vi amol, to zog mir oys
Vos tut zikh dortn in dayn shoys?
To vos zhe darfst zikh shemen vi a bsule?
Nor gedenk vi kh'hob in dir gerut,
Vi di shkhine glut in undzer blut,
Un yeder otem tut a haleluye...

Zol zayn mayn got iz gor nishto
Un libe zol zayn kol-mumro,
A puster troym tsebrokhn un mekhule,
Nisht keyn geveyn in mitn nakht,
Nisht keyn bal-tshuve oyfgevakht,
Nor an elnte kol-koyre haleluye...

An apikoyres rufstu mikh,
Mit shem-havaye lester ikh,
Iz meyle, ikh dervart nisht keyn geule.
Nor s'brent zikh heys in yedn os
Fun alef beys gor bizn sof
Di heylike un kalye haleluye...

Un dos iz alts, s'iz nisht keyn sakh.
Ikh makh dervayle vos ikh makh.
Ikh kum do vi a mentsh,
nisht keyn shiluye.
Khotsh alts farloyrn say vi say
Vel ikh farloybn "Adoynay"
Un shrayen vi l'khayem "haleluye.”
7 x
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar

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Sonjaconjota
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby Sonjaconjota » Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:08 am

zenmonkey wrote:Yiddish


I'm a huge fan of various versions of Cohen's song.
Now I have something to work on for the next days weeks.


Oh, I adore this song. I already loved the original and discovered this great version through the film Motti Wolkenbruch. Have you seen it?
This film and, of course, Unorthodox, really made me want to learn Yiddish. I already have the resources, but there's so little time ...
2 x

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zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2528
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: California, Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - German (B2/C1) on/off study: Persian, Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby zenmonkey » Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:06 pm

Sonjaconjota wrote:
Oh, I adore this song. I already loved the original and discovered this great version through the film Motti Wolkenbruch. Have you seen it?
This film and, of course, Unorthodox, really made me want to learn Yiddish. I already have the resources, but there's so little time ...

I have not seen it. I’ll look it up next week when I get back home. Thanks!!
0 x
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar

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zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2528
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: California, Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - German (B2/C1) on/off study: Persian, Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=859
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby zenmonkey » Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:13 pm

The end of the year is coming up.

In January, I'm going to work on a new language and I'm not sure what I'm going to do.
1 - focus on activating my Portuguese,
2 - start on Farsi,
3 - or not start a new language and stick to Yiddish.

I really want to start on Farsi, but I'm sure about how I'd like to go about it. Oral only, or script first? I'm a terrible learner and need visual reinforcement. So I spent a good hour reading the forum trying to find topics around learning while delaying visual learning and didn't really find something that satisfied me.

What's my plan? Who knows.

Yiddish break for the last 3 days as I traveled back to the US.

This week my daughter is visiting and we are speaking mostly English because we are spending a lot of time with our monolingual family members. It's odd, our preferred languages when we are alone are French and Spanish.
5 x
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar

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Deinonysus
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby Deinonysus » Mon Dec 20, 2021 2:36 pm

The Arabic script is not nearly as hard as you might think, especially since you already know the Hebrew script. Every Hebrew letter corresponds exactly with one (or sometimes multiple) Arabic letters. Persian does have a few extra letters for sounds that do not exist in Arabic. I don't think it should take you more than a couple of days to a maybe a week to learn the Persian alphabet.
2 x
/daɪ.nə.ˈnaɪ.səs/

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zenmonkey
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: California, Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - German (B2/C1) on/off study: Persian, Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby zenmonkey » Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:30 pm

Deinonysus wrote:The Arabic script is not nearly as hard as you might think, especially since you already know the Hebrew script. Every Hebrew letter corresponds exactly with one (or sometimes multiple) Arabic letters. Persian does have a few extra letters for sounds that do not exist in Arabic. I don't think it should take you more than a couple of days to a maybe a week to learn the Persian alphabet.


Thank you for your thoughts on this.
After spending a little time today with Memrise, I think you are right and I'm overthinking this.
I think my concern here is also a bit on font size - letter recognition, with a regular size font is part of the challenge for me.

But I'll give it ago :) !
3 x
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar

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Deinonysus
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   Spanish, Hebrew
• Beginner: Italian,
   Arabic
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby Deinonysus » Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:52 pm

zenmonkey wrote:Thank you for your thoughts on this.
After spending a little time today with Memrise, I think you are right and I'm overthinking this.
I think my concern here is also a bit on font size - letter recognition, with a regular size font is part of the challenge for me.

But I'll give it ago :) !

Font support is not very good for Arabic script in general, but websites that are dedicated to Arabic-script languages tend to use good fonts. For example, Al Jazeera uses a very clear and large font. I checked BBC News Persian and their font size can be a bit small but it's quite clear and readable.

This does also vary from device to device. Arabic looks fine in the default style on this forum, but I use the digi style to avoid eye strain and Arabic looks fine on my android phone but almost unreadable on Windows without significant enlarging.
2 x
/daɪ.nə.ˈnaɪ.səs/

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zenmonkey
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Posts: 2528
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
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Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
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Re: zenmonkey's multilingual adventures of a traveller

Postby zenmonkey » Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:53 am

That's a great resource.

Persian is going to definitely need reading glasses. I was working last night with an exercise book and found that I couldn't clearly read the diacritics. Maybe I'll get more used to the script with time, but for now, I need to find my glasses. They are here somewhere...

So the first days of working on the alphabet are moving nicely. Much ado about nothing.

BTW - there are zero posts on here on Maore or Shimaore. Wooh!
4 x
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar


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