A humble Assimil French log

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Brun Ugle
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Re: A french race for C2

Postby Brun Ugle » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:37 am

If you have trouble with concentrating for long periods of time, I would suggest interspersing “real study” like grammar exercises, with fun stuff that will still improve your French, but without seeming like work, such as watching videos or reading stories or novels. You’ll also end up encountering the new vocabulary and grammar you’ve just studied and that will help it stick in your brain.
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renaissancemedici
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Re: A french race for C2

Postby renaissancemedici » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:38 am

Yes Brun Ugle, I agree with you. It's my idea of immersion and, as you said, fun.

Yesterday I revised the two verbs, conjugation and how they are used. What I didn't do was exercises, but I'll do that today. Still waiting for the books.

As Ani said my goals are very specific, and things like Assimil or reading about verlan is no longer efficient. So it's grammar's time of glory, as I'll have to cover all the knowlegde gaps that I have been neglecting for years (subjonctif and so many more). I'll have to use my two becherelle books to the maximum, until they fall apart, because let's face it, vocabulary use in French is sadistically confusing sometimes. And let's not forget the gender of each word, which trips you right when you feel confident. From past papers I see a language like that of newspapers or magazines, with some pretty specific vocabulary sometimes...

So I'd better start reading French news papers.

And then there's the conversation part, which I'll have to develop magnificently because it's C2, right? We'll see how to do that, and if you have a suggestion on material DO TELL! My only thought is Assimil, but can it fit my studying?

I'm giving you a past paper example of the type of texts that are used in the exams.

First you answer multiple questions

Lisez cet article.
Le Slow Food, art de manger, art de vivre
Fondé à l'initiative de défenseurs du goût emmenés par Carlo Pietrini, le mouvement baptisé Slow Food milite pour une alimentation de qualité issue d'un véritable savoir-faire. Il entend faire connaître et défendre le patrimoine culinaire de chaque région. Militantisme qui défend l'authenticité des saveurs et la qualité des aliments, le mouvement est né en réaction à la montée de la mondialisation et de l'uniformisation du goût. L'ouverture dans le centre historique de Rome d'un Fast Food sous enseigne Mac Donald's© a agi véritablement comme un catalyseur : le mouvement, de défenseur du goût et d'une alimentation conçue avec un certain parti pris esthétique, s'est mué en une contestation radicale contre la production de masse et les menaces qu'elle fait peser tant sur les ressources naturelles que sur les conditions de vie des agriculteurs et des producteurs en général. Depuis, les valeurs défendues par les militants du mouvement ont trouvé un écho dans le monde entier et les adhérents sont actuellement plus de 100.000, répartis sur l'ensemble des régions du monde. Organisé en association avec des relais locaux et autour d'évènements clés, le mouvement va bien au-delà de la simple manifestation gastronomique : sur le fondement du manifeste contre l'uniformisation du goût se tissent des enjeux économiques, sociaux et environnementaux. Les producteurs, cultivateurs ou éleveurs sont encouragés à poursuivre des cultures de qualité en totale harmonie avec les ressources naturelles et en respectant l'environnement.
Pour que ce mouvement ait un véritable écho et que les producteurs engagés puissent être rétribués et encouragés dans leur démarche de qualité, des partenariats avec les acteurs politiques et institutionnels ont été noués pour que le mouvement relaie l'information en action concrète et que l'ampleur du phénomène puisse le poser en véritable acteur de l'agroalimentaire. À l'initiative de ses fondateurs qui ont tenu à défendre un ensemble de valeurs qui dépasse le seul cadre de la nourriture, le mouvement tend à devenir une véritable alternative aux modes de consommation actuels.
Réconcilier le plaisir avec la qualité, tel est le credo affirmé dès le départ par les fondateurs du mouvement. Le Slow Food conçoit une alimentation responsable et de qualité. Le plaisir de se nourrir en goûtant des produits savoureux et gorgés de leurs nutriments essentiels naturels s'étend au respect de la vie en général, celle des humains et celle des écosystèmes. Une véritable philosophie guide ce mouvement puisque dans la réhabilitation du goût s'affirme le plaisir qui ne se conçoit pas s'il est au détriment de quelqu'un ou de quelque chose. En ce sens, la dimension morale et éthique est évidente et la défense du goût et de la qualité alimentaire dépasse le simple objectif gastronomique. C'est tout un système de valeurs qui s'échafaude sur les principes fondamentaux de respect et d'authenticité entendus dans leur dimension essentielle.
Ainsi, exit les productions de masse qui nécessitent l'emploi de pesticides et produits chimiques, aussi nuisibles aux ressources naturelles qu'au genre humain, pour accélérer la croissance des végétaux et des animaux ; rien de ce qui perturbe le bien-être des producteurs comme celui des ressources ne peut entrer dans la chaîne de fabrication du Slow Food.
Le mouvement réhabilite avant tout une certaine humilité devant le rythme de la nature contre une prétention à tout artificialiser au nom de la consommation et de ses diktats. D'où son nom qui englobe toute la philosophie du mouvement et les valeurs de ses fondateurs : la lenteur du Slow Food s'oppose à la course effrénée du Fast Food qui bafoue le temps naturel au nom de l'hyper-consommation qui ne souffre pas de délai. Réintégrer les rythmes qui nous constituent, avec leurs saisons et les éléments qui en font partie, au lieu de vouloir soumettre la nature à la production de masse est une des valeurs fondamentales défendues par les actions du Slow Food. Au-delà du fait qu'un légume ne se gorge des vitamines et minéraux essentiels qu'en les puisant dans la terre et la lumière au cours de sa croissance naturelle, respecter la notion de temps de maturation et d'imperfection, voire de manque, est une véritable alternative sociale car elle vise une société plus juste dans toutes ses ramifications.
Rétablir la dimension locale des produits et de leur distribution est un élément fondamental du Slow Food. Aussi le mouvement est-il constitué autour de convivia (chaque relais est un convivium local) qui rassemblent les adhérents autour du partage des mêmes valeurs et la défense de ce qui est presque leur slogan : le Bon, le Propre, le Juste. Accueillant toutes les bonnes volontés et les défenseurs d'une société meilleure, les convivia ont une mission d'information et de défense du patrimoine : ils inventorient les adresses Slow Food (commerces, restaurants, ou autres) et protègent le patrimoine des terroirs.
Béatrice Moisson




Then there's this sort of thing, composing your own text.

ACTIVITÉ 1
Il y a deux ans, vous avez loué un appartement à Paris en versant comme garantie une somme correspondant à deux mois de loyer. Vous venez de recevoir, ci-dessous, la lettre de madame Giraudeau, votre propriétaire. Vous lui répondez en écrivant une lettre dans laquelle :
 vous lui exprimez votre mécontentement ;
 vous l’avisez de votre décision en utilisant des arguments éloquents.
350 mots. Signez votre texte A. Alexiou.
ACTIVITY 2
Jeanne GIRAUDEAU
13, boulevard de Courcelles
75017 - Paris
Paris, le 10 juin 2013
Madame Alexiou,
Je vous signale que votre contrat de bail, en date du 29 juin 2011, arrive à échéance le 28 juin 2013.
Je vous fais part de mon intention de ne pas renouveler ce bail au cas où vous ne déposeriez pas, sur mon compte bancaire, la somme du dernier loyer, celui de juin.
De plus, le loyer afférent au logement étant manifestement sous-évalué, j’ai décidé de fixer le nouveau montant du loyer à la somme de 400 euros, ce qui correspond à une augmentation de 10%. Je pense que ce montant n’est pas du tout excessif, vu la construction, la décoration et l’emplacement de l’appartement.
Je vous prie de me répondre au plus tard à la fin de la semaine, faute de quoi je serai obligée de vous donner congé.
Salutations,
J. Giraudeau





Then you get a Greek text to translate into French (say about genetic engineering or something like that).


Then it's listening time where you answer a ton of written questions.

Then oral: role playing where you have to develop arguments in favour or against a subject. Then there's free expression on a text/picture you are given, but you still have to answer some questions. Last but not least you are given three Greek texts to read, and then you answer specific questions. In C2 French of course.


Still loving it though. It helps take my mind off things.
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I use Assimil right now as a starting point, but at the same time I am building the foundation for further studies of German.

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renaissancemedici
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Re: A french race for C2

Postby renaissancemedici » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:45 am

I got the books. It's definitely not a course. It follows closely the exams model:

4 modules
Compréhension écrite et maîtrise du système de la langue
Production écrite et mediation
Compréhension de l'oral
Production orale et médiation

I have to find a way to get a really good vocabulary and grammar study, as well as develop my speaking skills. Quickly but effectively.
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I use Assimil right now as a starting point, but at the same time I am building the foundation for further studies of German.

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Re: A french race for C2

Postby jeffers » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:07 pm

I love a massive challenge (as long as I'm not the one who has to do it!) You have the right attitude to be successful regardless of the actual outcome. I look forward to following your progress.
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Re: A french race for C2

Postby garyb » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:34 pm

Good luck, and I'll be following!

I can't advise much since I've never reached that level in a foreign language and probably never will, and I want to avoid being one of these posters who dishes out advice on things they have no experience in without making this clear. But if I were in your boat, I'd try to remember that C2 does not mean perfect or like the proverbial "educated native speaker", and stay focused on what's actually important for the exam. Grammatical perfection, accent improvement, and colloquial conversation can wait until afterwards, although gaps in basic knowledge (like the subjunctive you mentioned) should obviously be addressed.

I've heard or read the output of a handful of French learners who've passed the C2 exam; none had perfect grammar or consistently expressed themselves in a native-like way, and small mistakes even with relatively basic structures were very common. Which is just fine, since CEFR is focused on what you can actually do in the language: understanding and producing speech and writing on diverse subjects, presenting ideas in specific formats. Anyone who's done the exam can feel free to tell me if I'm wrong or missing anything here, since I'm just going by people's experiences and what I've seen of their ability.
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renaissancemedici
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Re: A french race for C2

Postby renaissancemedici » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:15 pm

Thank you both for the much needed encouragement!
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I use Assimil right now as a starting point, but at the same time I am building the foundation for further studies of German.

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Ani
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Re: A french race for C2

Postby Ani » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:58 pm

Like Gary, I haven't reached C2 in any language, let alone one in short time frame.

My thought is that FSI might get you most of the way there on speaking and possibly be very helpful with grammar (not explanations but auromatizing it) and writing. The problem is that it's just huge. Almost no one finishes it, let along in a super condensed period. I've never finished it myself but expressions from it pop to mind all the time even over a year since I last touched it.

A condensed run though Assimil might be very helpful as you get back up to speed? Something like 4 lessons a day + doing the previous day's 4 lessons either as "active wave" translation or dictée off the audio.

And have you considered working with a tutor? If I've ever seen a case that calls for one, it's yours.
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Re: A french race for C2

Postby Cavesa » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:04 am

Hmm, this looks exactly like the kind of a thread I could procrastinate with for a long time. I probably will think a bit about what to write, as I might just be flooding you with too much stuff that won't be too useful.

Just a few points I will gladly expand on, should you wish me to.

-I passed DALF C2 a few years ago. Should I look up some of my previous posts about the exam or is yours too different? DALF doesn't contain any translation, of course, and is a bit differently made, so I am not sure how relevant you would find them. Also, I was in no hurry. I was mostly having fun for a few years and happened to get to C2 by coincidence and passed with "just" the exam preparation, without the need to seriously up my overall level in half a year. I admire your dedication and I am so looking forward to reading more from you! I think you can do it, but it will require time and efforts.

-Knowing the format of the exam and doing lots of practice tasks is essential. However, you might need to build your grammar and vocab first a bit, to do those exam practice tasks efficiently, without getting stuck on B1 mistakes too much. Perhaps you might like a plan including much more grammar and similar stuff at first, with the theory/practice ratio changing as you progress, but that is just a suggestion.

-I know Bescherelle and those books are of good quality. However, they might not give you enough exercise. How are you using them?
-The FSI and Assimil suggestions are not bad per se, but I think you might like to use CEFR labeled stuff and not to dwell much on resources for beginners, every week counts. There are many things for the intermediate learners these days. Grammaire Progressive and Vocabulaire Progressif, the later three levels. These series are excellent. PUG publishes some good stuff. If you are interested in the usual courses with a lot of practice and as natural resources as possible and also grammar and vocab introduction and the four skills development, I recommend Édito (levels B1, B2, and newly C1) or there is Alter Ago (which I liked less but it was still useful). However, there are many more resources than you can work with within your time frame, you'll need to choose wisely and study intensively and get through them fast.

-newspapers are nice but careful about what you choose to work with and aim for. The usual kind of short news is definitely not sufficient for C2. Longer essays, reportages, opinions, those are much more valuable. A lot of stuff is available for free on lemonde.fr and elsewhere. I can also recommend some popular science magazines as you mentioned such topics could appear in your exam, those had proven to be awesome resources! Books are the best but they take time. Perhaps too much time. And as you've said you also need to study other stuff for the job exams, it might be practical to connect that and study in French :-)

-the most important part of speaking and participating in a dialogue is actually listening comprehension. Tons of tv series had prepared me well for C2 (I had a much higher note of the listening+speaking section than the reading+writing. an unusually good note as I was told). Any listening (both the recording and the examiners) was easy there and I was used to thinking in the language and my speaking preparation and skill was so much easier thanks to the practice. The problem: I had spent like 250 hours with tv series and I am not sure you've got that. Perhaps you do, but it would require starting soon putting the time into it, but definitely not stopping or slowing down your progress elsewhere. But of course there are more ways to approach this.

-as to tutors. They can be useful but are not necessary. I agree that your case (being short on time and having a very specific exam to prepare for) might be one for a tutor. But be careful, more are not up for such a task they can even slow you down and they should never become an excuse for not working really hard on your own and on stuff your tutor is not covering. Sure, a good one could definitely help but you need to find one, perhaps ask in the testing centre or google recommendations, definitely don't settle just someone trying out their abilities on you. Ask (and require precise answers!) how many students they have prepared for YOUR exam and how successful have those been. Require strictness, leniency and flattery to "give you more confidence" won't do. As has been recently discussed in several threads, it is true many teachers don't know how to teach the advanced students because they have no idea how good can a foreigner be at the language and therefore what to demand. Do not waste time and money on someone not pushing you hard enough.

Oh, and I have already written a long post despite the good intentions to stay brief, sorry.
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renaissancemedici
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Re: A french race for C2

Postby renaissancemedici » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:18 am

First of all thank you all, and please know that all this is very helpful. Cavesa, you didn't write too much as no word was out of place in your post.

A tutor is not possible, however yesterday I spoke with one. A lady with experience in the matter. She asked me which diploma I have and I said the Certificat de Langue Française. She said that's fairly advanced, she urged me to study every day but without pressure, cover grammar/vocabulary and all will be fine. She also said that it's a higher level than the more modern intermediate diplomas that I never learned how to name (DELF? DALF?). So I googled it and my tested level is a B2... :shock: Now, that was a long time ago, but I got a confidence boost I can tell you that.


I decided on FSI, and, Ani, you were in my mind. I know people find it boring but I don't have the time to be bored. I see it introduces grammar in every chapter so I'll cover chapters of grammar and drill like a maniac. I mean grammar excercises. I have plenty of exercise books and maybe I'll get more. I helps me with conversation more than assimil, I've known that for quite sometime. Vocabulary is a bit more tricky, I'll check your suggestions anyway Cavesa, so we'll see. I need modern and current words as well, so a good newspaper is definitely in my future. As for more scientific things... I don't know. Studying something in French for my job exams is a good idea!

I can also practice translation, in fact I should. I'll post something now and then.

Finally I should write a lot in French, in order to think French and to keep correcting knowledge gaps in practice before the exams.


On verra, mes amis!
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I use Assimil right now as a starting point, but at the same time I am building the foundation for further studies of German.

Assimil German with ease: 8 / 100

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Re: A french race for C2

Postby Cavesa » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:55 pm

renaissancemedici wrote:I decided on FSI, and, Ani, you were in my mind. I know people find it boring but I don't have the time to be bored. I see it introduces grammar in every chapter so I'll cover chapters of grammar and drill like a maniac. I mean grammar excercises. I have plenty of exercise books and maybe I'll get more. I helps me with conversation more than assimil, I've known that for quite sometime. Vocabulary is a bit more tricky, I'll check your suggestions anyway Cavesa, so we'll see. I need modern and current words as well, so a good newspaper is definitely in my future. As for more scientific things... I don't know. Studying something in French for my job exams is a good idea!

I can also practice translation, in fact I should. I'll post something now and then.

Finally I should write a lot in French, in order to think French and to keep correcting knowledge gaps in practice before the exams.

You're welcome, I'll be happy if anything of this is useful to you.

A word of caution: plan your studies well, don't dwell for too long on stuff that is not moving you forward. It is easy to get lost in several low level workbooks and not to get to the higher level ones. The same is true about the FSI. It can help a lot with solidification of the basics, but don't let it keep you from the more advanced stuff for too long, the FSI does not go up to the C levels. Don't rush through important stuff unnecessarily, but don't wait for too long in a comfort zone.

Fro writing and speaking practice with feedback, I recommend Lingora. I find the feedback there of quit good quality, the community seems to be growing nicely. But don't forget you'll need to practice longer texts than the limits on lingora or italki, and also more complex. You are likely to get good feedback on your mistakes, but less likely to get detailed feedback on your style. I think your exam might be trickier than DALF in the translation part but it might be less tricky overall in writing, as a large part of the DALF preparation lied in learning the styles and genres and how to follow their rules the best.

For grammar, I almost forgot to recommend Kwiziq. It is much better than most similar websites and can help with better organisation of your studies and practice.
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