Tea With Tarvos - Tarvos' Log 2019

[vonPeterhof]

- Simple manga to read in Japanese

よつばと! (Yotsuba&!) is the manga I always recommend to beginners. It generally has simple everyday dialogue, a lot of it in kana only and the rest with furigana, good and (mostly) wholesome comedy and very detailed artwork. It's about a child but not exactly aimed at children, which makes it a good recommendation for adult readers looking for something both easy and entertaining. But if you don't mind children's manga you can't go wrong with ドラえもん (Doraemon).

[brilliantyears]

I'm never quite sure if I agree with the recommendation of よつばと! so early on. It is very kana-heavy which can also actually make it more complicated to read. Since tarvos already has experience with characters, I think she'll be fine with something a little more character-heavy that has furigana. Characters don't necessarily make it more difficult - they add structure.

Also, よつばと! indeed has lots of everyday dialogue but very different from what you generally encounter in textbooks. Also quite different from what you'd be expected to speak at first when you go to Japan. That means it can fill a gap in your learning material, but it can also confuse things early on. If you cannot distinguish between different types of speech yet, you'll run the risk of talking like an anime/manga character, which is not charming or normal or natural or very functional (But maybe I'm just being harsh now - I was surrounded by people talking like this for too long and.. just no)

I'd probably personally recommend people to get a good basis in grammar first before tackling this kind of material. Doesn't even have to take long or be super thorough

I'll check my bookshelves when I get home, to see if I've got some good early-stage reading recommendations for you.

[edit] After my initial harshness I do want to add: よつばと! is incredibly feel-good, so content-wise I do totally recommend it. It's adorable.

[tarvos]

Don't worry, I have studied Korean and I know how to use honorifics (And if not, teach me, senpai)

Just so you know, that last comment is a joke. I am not in this for the animé cosplay.

[brilliantyears]

Knowing Korean in this case definitely helps Especially since, and I don't say this lightly, I personally found Korean honorifics even more intense than Japanese

(Senpai jokes are fine I am happy to be your senpai.)

[tarvos]

You're older by a few months, so you are indeed senpai

I don't find honorifics that big of a deal but maybe it's just me being me again... It's just that formality levels are more structured, and of course us being Dutch means that that looks strange to us. But I have a definite tendency to use u a bit more than most people

[vonPeterhof]

I'm never quite sure if I agree with the recommendation of よつばと! so early on. It is very kana-heavy which can also actually make it more complicated to read. Since tarvos already has experience with characters, I think she'll be fine with something a little more character-heavy that has furigana. Characters don't necessarily make it more difficult - they add structure.

Good point. I mean, I could argue that reading something kana-heavy would benefit someone experienced with Chinese characters precisely because that's something they need to work on, but that feels like moving the goalposts away from simple reading.

Also, よつばと! indeed has lots of everyday dialogue but very different from what you generally encounter in textbooks. Also quite different from what you'd be expected to speak at first when you go to Japan. That means it can fill a gap in your learning material, but it can also confuse things early on. If you cannot distinguish between different types of speech yet, you'll run the risk of talking like an anime/manga character, which is not charming or normal or natural or very functional (But maybe I'm just being harsh now - I was surrounded by people talking like this for too long and.. just no)

I'd probably personally recommend people to get a good basis in grammar first before tackling this kind of material. Doesn't even have to take long or be super thorough

I definitely agree on the final point, which is why I don't recommend learning from manga immediately after memorizing the kana, without prior or at least concurrent grammar study. Having said that, I tend to agree with Tae Kim's assessment of the problems with the usual approaches to introducing people to Japanese grammar via "useful phrases". I feel like delaying engagement with the more casual registers of the language makes for a more roundabout introduction to the grammar (granted, my usual approach is as far from "Speak From Day 1" as humanly possible, so I do realize that the other way makes a lot more sense to many people ) As for talking like a manga character, I feel like よつばと! is still a lot better than most manga out there due to its general lack of deliberate "speech quirks" that nobody in real life actually has (aside from the title character's childish malapropisms).

[tarvos]

Good point. I mean, I could argue that reading something kana-heavy would benefit someone experienced with Chinese characters precisely because that's something they need to work on, but that feels like moving the goalposts away from simple reading.

Step by step, my friend, step by step

[tarvos]

Before I go to bed and my laptop dies due to low battery, I would like to leave you with some of the spelling exercises I have been doing today (they are hiragana only, I will probably start katakana tomorrow). I've taken a picture of it. Now my handwriting is ok for the Latin words obviously, but I probably still write clumsily when it comes to kana (and also Chinese characters, lol) so please be gentle if it looks like a 3-year-old's depiction of kana and not like an adult writing Japanese as you should.



And yes, I wrote that with a pencil on purpose in case I stuff up

Also, some people say my handwriting is girly, but I don't see it, really

[brilliantyears]

It's not bad

A few small corrections:
お looks a bit like も
Be careful with た and な (you wrote tatsu instead of natsu)
Be careful with ほ : the right side looks a little bit too like ま (sticking out from the top)
Be careful with い andり, い may be a little wider to distinguish them
ち (in ちがい) can lean a little bit more to the right

Honestly you'll be there in no time!

[tarvos]

Brilliantyears-senpai to the rescue! ありがとうBrilliantyears先輩！