The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

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IronMike
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby IronMike » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:30 pm

Maybe you've already seen this? Spain recognizes Ladino as Spanish.
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You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

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iguanamon
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Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan (B2)
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby iguanamon » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:46 pm

Yup, still, thanks for thinking of me. Hopefully, with the RAE onboard, the efforts to preserve the language will be more successful. It still isn't going to come back as a living language of a community because the unique circumstances that created it and allowed it to continue for centuries are gone and can't be re-created.
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iguanamon
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby iguanamon » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:20 pm

Português:
Last night I watched a Japanese film subtitled in Portuguese "O céu de Toquio à noite é o mais denso tom de azul/The Tokyo Night Sky is Always the Densest Shade of Blue" by director Yúya Ishii. It's a film from 2017 and the director is 36 years old.

It's an urban 20 something "angst" movie where boy meets girl. Boy is "weird" and he admits it. Girl is "weird" too and she admits it too. They're both misfits and they keep running into each other in Tokyo. Of course there are valid reasons for why they're both "weird". Eventually they decide they need each other and, despite the odds, accept that love happens and is a good thing. I had no problem following the dialog with Portuguese subtitles. I enjoyed the film. I even recognized a few common Japanese words. This type of film is outside what I'd normally enjoy. I'm definitely not an urban person, nor am I in my early 20's anymore, but I do remember what that was like. The cinematography was well done and so was the acting. It was a slice of life of modern day Tokyo and a good film. Yúya Ishii is a director to keep an eye on.

From a language perspective, it's definitely a test of your ability to read and read quickly when you are watching a film in a language you don't understand with subtitles in a second language. After a few minutes, as I got wrapped up in the film, I forgot I was watching in L2 subs. I could do this in Spanish easily as well but I don't think I could do it as easily in Haitian Creole (there wouldn't even be subs available in HC) and definitely not in Catalan (even if it were available). I will probably keep watching future unknown language films with Spanish or Portuguese subtitles, when I can find them.

Spanish:
I watched the World Cup game between Croatia and England on Telemundo in Spanish. I had to leave to go to an appointment in the second extra time period so I listened to the broadcast in Spanish out of Puerto Rico on my car radio. Spanish just keeps rolling along without special effort.

Djudeo-espanyol/Ladino
Still going along with Yeoshua/Joshua in the OT- Chapter 21 now in Rashi script. I have a bunch of books in Rashi, more than enough to keep me busy for the next couple of years.

Haitian Creole
On Chapter 21 of Jozye in the OT and Atravè Labib. The news out of Haiti has been a bit grim lately with riots and protests after a gas (petrol) price rise. I'm happy with where my HC is right now, but I feel the urge to explore voudou culture more and will start gathering some resources to help me do that.

Català
I haven't started a new book in Catalan this week.

There are a lot of free and legal resources out there to learn Catalan. The Generalitat de Catalunya (government) wants people to learn and use the language. Here are some of the resources available:

List of Resource links to learn Catalan from the Generalitat Recursos per aprendre català
Flash exercises- "Vincles"
Practice tests and resources from the Balearic Islands Government
Catalan Online Dictionaries
Dictation Excerises with pdf transcript and mp3 audio
Català bàsic- Iniciació a la llengua oral- pdf and audio, Basic Catalan 1 &2 from the Generalitat
From the Institut Ramon Llull: videos to learn Catalan
Viure a Catalunya. Aprenem català des de l'espanyol / Vivir en Catalunya. Aprendemos catalán desde el español
Grup de treball de tutors i tutores d'aula d'acollida Pla de formació de Badalona/A1 Catalan resources for Catalan teachers
Llicència d'estudis 04·05: Recursos d'estructuració de llenguatge more language resources including a dictionary of actions illustrated
Muds de Mots/Catalan word games by level
Flash reading exercises/
Parla.cat- the Generalitat's course with multilingual or monolingual base
Digui, Digui Curs de Català videos on youtube
GlobalVoices en Català- sporadically updated
Book of Genesis Catalan Audio Bible on youtube
Public Domain Translated Books- look for "pdf" These come from a website called http://www.traduccionliteraria.org/]traduccionliteraria.org. The books date from 1900, so beware of outdated language.

I'm following Expugnator and Systematiker's example and have been doing Clozemaster with a Spanish base and have completed about 10% of it so far, level 17 overall which is reinforcing my reading and listening. There is so much available, I'll be spoiled for choice when/if I start to formally learn the language... but what do I do with it if I learn it ;)
Last edited by iguanamon on Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby jonm » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:44 am

iguanamon wrote:On episode 5 of Merlí on netflix. I'm watching with Spanish subs, sometimes switching to Portuguese. I wish there were Catalan subs available.

Hi iguanamon, I've been able to stream Merlí with Catalan subs on what I think is the official site here using a VPN to connect through a Spanish IP address.

I'm about halfway through the series and really enjoying it. For now I'm actually watching with English subs rather than using this workaround, since I'm just getting started with Catalan and would miss a lot, but I like the show enough that I'm hoping to watch a second time through with Catalan subs.
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iguanamon
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby iguanamon » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:53 pm

trippingly wrote:...I've been able to stream Merlí with Catalan subs on what I think is the official site here using a VPN to connect through a Spanish IP address.
I'm about halfway through the series and really enjoying it. For now I'm actually watching with English subs rather than using this workaround, since I'm just getting started with Catalan and would miss a lot, but I like the show enough that I'm hoping to watch a second time through with Catalan subs.

Català
Gracies for stopping by, trippingly. I appreciate you thinking of me, but I'm just not ready to go the vpn route yet. Your profile says you're at C1 in Spanish, so I'm sure watching again with Catalan subs will be helpful. Merlí is a very good series and quite well done. I've also found a novela on TV3's site with Catalan subs- Com se fos ahir "As if it were yesterday". I'm not quite ready to benefit from this yet, but I will be and there are over 200 episodes of at least 30 minutes each available.

This past week, I've been reading "La Grande Dormida/The Big Sleep" by noir detective/mystery writer Raymond Chandler in parallel with the Portuguese translation. I read a chapter in Portuguese and then in Catalan. I was too lazy to make a parallel text out of it. My comprehension of Catalan is much better after having read three novels (two translations and one original). I'm on level 60 of clozemaster Catalan/Spanish now. It's reinforcing my reading and listening.
The consecutive parallel reading is helpful because it fills in the missing context and I'm able to make better guesses on unknown words and phrases. Plus, I just love a good noir detective like Marlowe.

I've never seen the film. Now, I think I'll have to find it... Bogie and Bacall!

There's a site 4Cats from the Institut Ramon Llull that has a bunch of videos for learners with transcripts and some vocabulary and grammar points explained. I like it.

I'm up to level 60 on clozemaster Catalan/Spanish now. This is my first attempt at anything similar to srs. I don't know yet how helpful it is or may be in my learning. Time will tell. I figured I'd give it a try after seeing everyone else, it seems, using it. I guess I'll admit to actually studying Catalan now, but it's more along the lines of James29 and his French study. I may drop it and pick it back up or I may start a course and run with it. It's not critical, but the more I do in it the more I like the language and the culture. I'll be happy if I can enjoy reading and listening and have basic conversational ability.

Portuguese
Finished "O sonho eterno/The Big Sleep" in Portuguese translation. I very much enjoyed it and it reminded me of some of the later works of Brazilian author Rubem Fonseca- of course. Still listening, speaking and writing pretty much daily.

Spanish
I watch, listen, speak and read almost daily in Spanish too. It's just a part of my life now.

Djudeo-Espanyol/Ladino
Kapitulo 6 of Shoftim/Judges in the OT in Rashi script. Also doing some other reading in Solitreo (Rashi cursive script).

Kreyòl Ayisyen/Haitian Creole
Chapit 6 Liv Jij la/Judges in the OT plus the Atravè Labib podcast Bible study of the chapter(s). Debora is one powerful woman! I speak and write occasionally.

Japanese Cinema:
Remembering Shinomu Hashimoto, who passed away at 100 this past week. He was the screenwriter for some of Akira Kurosawa's most famous and best films, including Rashomon, The Hidden Fortress, Seven Samurai and Ikiru. He started honing his craft on the train to and from work in a factory and became interested in screenwriting while recuperating in a tuberculosis sanitarium after his army training.

Mèsi pou li tou sa ke m ekri isit la jodi a mezanmi. Orevwa, m a wè nou pita.
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby jonm » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:17 pm

iguanamon wrote:Gracies for stopping by, trippingly. I appreciate you thinking of me, but I'm just not ready to go the vpn route yet. Your profile says you're at C1 in Spanish, so I'm sure watching again with Catalan subs will be helpful. Merlí is a very good series and quite well done.

Gràcies per la benvinguda!

You're right, yesterday I rewatched the first episode with Catalan subs, and I caught quite a bit. The kinship with Spanish and French certainly helps. I'll probably continue rewatching the early episodes with Catalan subs, and I'll have to see whether I'm also ready to make the switch for new episodes.

I also mined some sentences from the show and fed them to Anki. I do that with Assimil Catalan, and time permitting, I'd really like to make Merlí a source as well, as the show (and especially Merlí himself) has some rich sentences that would be fun to unpack.

Those other Catalan series look very promising!

Enjoy watching The Big Sleep. I've never read the book, but the film is great. I especially like the bookshop scenes, and of course the scenes between Bogie and Bacall. I imagine having read the book twice will help you keep up with the labyrinthine plot (there's that story about Chandler being asked who killed a particular character, and even he didn't know). So interesting how that doesn't seem to diminish one's enjoyment of the film.

iguanamon wrote:Remembering Shinomu Hashimoto, who passed away at 100 this past week. He was the screenwriter for some of Akira Kurosawa's most famous and best films, including Rashomon, The Hidden Fortress, Seven Samurai and Ikiru. He started honing his craft on the train to and from work in a factory and became interested in screenwriting while recuperating in a tuberculosis sanitarium after his army training.

What a nice tribute! I've seen three of his magnificent (no pun intended with the Seven Samurai remake, just seems the right word) collaborations with Kurosawa, and I didn't realize he also wrote Harakiri (haven't seen yet, but I've heard it's also a masterpiece). Really interesting to learn some of the details of his long, accomplished life.
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iguanamon
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby iguanamon » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:45 am

Català
I finished all the 4,167 sentences in Clozemaster Català/Español. So, what do I think of Clozemaster?
Well, I saw that a bunch of people here whom I follow on the forum have done/are doing Clozemaster, so I thought I'd give it a try. I made it to level 75 with 74,428 points and a little over 99% correct. I don't know if it's helping or if it's my reading, listening, study, prior Romance languages or what. So many of the clozes were easy to get correct because they were so similar to Spanish- sometimes identical or practically identical. As we say in English it was "like shooting fish in a barrel".
One of the problems with us, as self-learners, is that we are by definition- highly individual. It can be very difficult for us to describe or even know what has been most helpful in our learning. My first instinct is to say that it didn't help at all, but I'm sure it has by putting me in the right frame of mind for Catalan, making me think and notice the grammar and giving me a low pressure activity for review and passive ability. I can't really quantify how much Clozemaster helped me but I'm pretty sure it did. I just don't know if I want to continue with it.
I've also been watching the videos on 4cats. I like them. They give exposure to conversational Catalan, they have a transcript and accurate subtitles to help with listening training and vocabulary/grammar explanations too. I've been doing these in monolingual Catalan mode- but French, Italian, Spanish and English are also available. The videos are old, probably around 2000. They remind me of a Catalan version of Friends. I love the old mobiles!

The page gives this explanation for context
De la Llum diríem que és una persona extravertida i sense complexes. La seva mirada sovint és desafiant i la manera d’explicar intimitats és molt directa i no hi té cap mena de problema. La Bel, en canvi, abaixa la mirada quan l’altra l’ataca subtilment i les seves mans sempre es mouen més a prop del cos. Si mireu el vídeo sense so veureu que a part del diàleg també hi ha una comunicació no verbal molt marcada.
Al final, la Llum revela el secret a la Sara i fa un gest força explícit, que després la Sara, més discreta que la Llum, repeteix sense dir res a en Carles.

EN: We could say that Llum is an extroverted and unreserved person. She is often provocative and has no qualms about speaking in a very direct way about intimate things. But Bel lowers her head when the other girl subtly attacks her and always keeps her hands close to her body. If you watch this video with the sound turned off, you will notice that along with the dialogue there is also some very explicit non verbal communication going on.
In the end, Llum tells Sara the secret and makes a very explicit gesture, and then Sara, who is more discrete than Llum, repeats it without saying anything to Carles

I'd say these videos are at an intermediate level. I find them more interesting, more fun and useful than very basic videos.
The site also gives very basic but useful grammar points:
En aquest capítol trobareu les frases:
En vols més?
Si en vols més, digue-ho
L'en és un pronom que es refereix a matèries indeterminades, és a dir, sense un article definit (el, la, els, les). Quan parlem del pronom en o n’/’n sovint tenim altres partícules que van associades a conceptes incomptables com són gaire o gens. Tant un com l’altre es fan servir en oracions negatives:
No me n’has donat gaire
No me’n queda gens

ES:
En este capítulo encontraréis las frases:
En vols més?
Si en vols més, digue-ho
Se trata de un pronombre que se refiere a materias indeterminadas, es decir, sin un artículo definido (el, la, els, les).
Cuando hablamos del pronombre en o n’/’n a menudo tenemos otras partículas que se asocian a conceptos incontables como son gaire o gens. Ambos se utilizan en oraciones negativas:
No me n’has donat gaire
No me’n queda gens

While getting lost on the internet, I came across a site with a bunch of early 1900's books translated into Catalan in the public domain. I'm a sucker for these old scanned pdf books due to my experience with Djuedo-espanyol/Ladino. I like that I can make notes on them within the pdf's and check my notes after reading. I can easily find the original most of the time if I get stuck on a word or a phrase. I downloaded several of them including a translation of Shakespeare's Macbeth and Charles Perraults tales.
I'm still enjoying watching Merlí and Wild Kratts in Catalan.
As to study, I've started Catalán para dummies and I'm trying out the free Parla.Cat monolingual Catalan course. In addition, I downloaded all the free audio from the Book2 site which I'll put on my phone for an audio course. I also want to give Digui, digui a go. I'll eventually settle on one or two.
Spanish
Right now, I have the Juegos Centroámericanos y del Caribe on the TV via ESPN deportes. I have it on while I work.
The site I mentioned for books above also has more translations into Spanish including Shakespeare's Hamlet and several Greek classics like La ética de Aristóteles. Spanish from 100 years ago is not an issue.
Portuguese
Still using it every day.
Djudeo-espanyol/Ladino
Reading Judges/Shoftim in the OT in Rashi script. Things went downhill fast for Yisrael after Yeoshua/Joshua passed away. It's the same old story so far- the people of Yisrael turn their backs on God and start worshiping Baal and Astarte. God lets them be conquered by an enemy. The people cry out to God for deliverance and God raises up a warrior hero who frees them, then the people go back to their sinful ways and the cycle repeats. I'm on chapter 11 now.
Also, I'm reading in Solitreo, which is pretty hard because it's handwriting.
For fun, I am reading Robinson Crusoe in Rashi translation, but just a few pages a day... like Expug does sometimes.
Haitian Creole
I follow @MichelDeGraff on twitter. Msyè DeGraff is a linguist and creolist at MIT in Boston. He recommended a book (new in Kreyòl translation) to read- Papa Dòk: Ak Tonton Makout li yo. I bought it on Amazon. It has about 400 pages. I'm looking forward to reading it because so much of modern Haiti's predicament dates from this time and its reverberations keep influencing the actions and policies of today in the country. Papa Dòk consciously cultivated a Baron Samdi image from voudou to give an imprimatur of "righteousness" to his dictatorship and instill fear upon his subjects as can be seen in the book's cover photo.
Image
Image
Amazon wrote:Papa Dòk was first printed in 1968 while Papa Dòk was alive and was later printed into seven languages and now Kreyòl (Creole). It is the story of the early days of the dictatorship that was to last thirty years. It was a time of evil and terrible fear. This is a non-fiction book and the work of two journalists.

Michel DeGraff wrote:Liv Bernard Diederich sa a an kreyòl bay “verite sou Ayiti”—sou Papa Dòk at Tonton Makout li yo. Sa se yon liv pou tout Ayisyen konsekan—pou n pa tonbe #AnbaDiktati yon lòt fwa ankò.
EN: (my translation) This book in Creole by Bernard Dietrich gives "the truth about Haiti"- about Papa Doc and his Tonton Macoutes. It's a very consequential (important) book for all Haitians so that we don't fall under dictatorship once again.

I continue with reading the Bible in Kreyòl and listening to the study in Atravè Labib. Judges/Jij 11.
Orevwa pou kounyea, mezanmi. Mèsi pou li tou sa isit la. M'a wè nou pita.
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby iguanamon » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:14 pm

Time to update the log now that I've returned from vacation up in the States. Though I love my home, this has been a very trying year and I needed to get away for a while. I didn't get much language related activity in except for the usual conversations in the Miami Airport in Spanish, Portuguese and Haitian Creole. I did a little reading but not much. I mostly focused on my time with my family and sleeping.

Kreyòl Ayisyen
My book in Kreyòl about Papa Dòk Divalye/François (Franswa) Duvalier, ex dictator of Haiti, arrived in the mail while I was gone. I've read about 10% of it now. The book starts with the "election" of 1957. Of course, this was a fraught time in the Americas and the world. It was two years before Fidel Castro and the victory of the Cuban Revolution burst upon the scene. The Cold War was in full force. This was an era of proxy wars and interventionism in a bi-polar world. It's probably best summed up by a quote attributed to FDR about former Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza- "Somoza may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch." Geo-politics in a world composed of nation-states is all about nations' interests. After all the chaos and conflict of this epoch, it's a wonder we're all still here to talk about it today.

The book is a translation from English into Kreyòl. Reading non-fiction is generally easier for most learners than fiction and translations easier than originally written material. I find that to be the case here also. This book was only available in physical form. I've grown used to reading Kreyòl on my tablet. It's not for the ease of dictionary look-ups because there is no Kreyòl dictionary for kindle or moon reader available. I read HC in pdf mostly and I occasionally like to highlight words and phrases and make notes which is so easy to do in a pdf. I seem to have an irrational aversion to marking up a physical book . I shouldn't. I own it and am free to do with it as I please but to me a book has always been something of a semi-sacred commodity not to be defaced by anyone.

The literary scene in Haitian Creole is not big. With a population of speakers numbering around 11 million or so, one would think that there would be, but this is a poor and a poorly educated population with less leisure time and money available to devote to literary pursuits than comparable first world populations have. Still, the market is increasing, especially among the Haitian diaspora. This is an important work to be translated as it narrates an important time in Haitian history and politics that is very, very relevant today.

The book includes a translator's note about how to read in Kreyòl. Ironically, most of the native Kreyòl-speaking population was never taught how to read their own language. With 100% of the population in Haiti speaking Kreyòl and only 5% who are fluent in French, the vast majority of public education is via French- a language that even the teachers have an imperfect command.

Many proper names get transliterated into Kreyòl spellings, like the author's name, Benà Didrich/Bernard Diederich; Franswa Divalye/François Duvalier and his opponent in the 1957 election- Lwi Dejwa/Louis Dejoie. Most Haitians keep the French spelling of their names but there is a slowly increasing trend to spell them in Kreyòl. Occasionally, even at my level, I get stumped by a word. The book appears to be poorly edited. Some of the words run together like this one dwòlidòl- dwòl idòl/strange idol. I don't know why this simple word threw me for a loop. Once I'd stared at it for a few seconds I figured it out and was a bit embarrassed by my lapse. :roll:

In the Old Testament, I am almost finished with the book of Judges. I only have two more chapters to go. I continue with the Atravè Labib podcast. I find it a good way to consolidate and think about what I've read.

Djudeo-espanyol/Ladino
I did some more web searching on the Spanish National Library site because I don't have the Book of Ruth/"Rut" available to read in Rashi script. I read the OT in HC and Djudeo-espanyol. In the Christian Bible the order of books is different than in the "Tanah" (Tanakh in Hebrew)
Vikipedya Ladino wrote:El akronimo Tanah son las tres primeras letras ebreas de kada una de las tres partes ke tienen konformado:
La Tora (תּוֹרָה), «instruksion»
Los Nevi'im (נְבִיאִים) o «Profetas»
Los Ketuvim (כְּתוּבִים) o «Eskritos»
La letra inisiala kaf de כְּתוּבִים (Ketuvim) (se eskrive de dirita a siedra) es la ultima letra en el akronimo תַּנַ"ךְ (Tanah), i por ser la ultima letra uza la forma de kaf finala ( ךְ ) i es pronunsiada suave, komo J, no komo K, por eso es Tanah y no "Tanak".

(My loose translation) The acronym Tanah is composed of the first three hebrew letters of each one of the three parts that compose the work 1) The Torah, Instruction 2) The Neviim, Prophets 3) The Ketuvim, Writings. It then goes on to explain that in Ladino the final "K" has a soft pronunciation like "J" and that's why it's Tanah in Ladino instead of Tanakh

The order of the Jewish text is that the next book up is Samuel 1 and in the Christian Bible, Ruth is the next book. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. The Book of Ruth only has four chapters anyway, so it's not that big of a deal if I can't read it in Rashi. I've been spoiled.
As a bonus, my search for the Book of Ruth/Ketuvim in Rashi on the Spanish National Library site netted me at least 10 new books in Rashi script to read at some point.

Català
My crazy Catalan learning adventure continues with a mix of videos, a grammar book, a dictionary, listening and reading. After running through all the clozemaster sentences in the Catalan/Español format, three books and my other resources, I am somewhat amazed I can now read this adult book in Catalan translation from an author recommended by Ogrim- Stefan Klein
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It's a pop-science style book but an enjoyable read. My kindle does not have a functioning Catalan dictionary but I find that I have few words to look up anyway mostly because as I said earlier, non-fiction is generally easier to read than fiction for learners and my knowledge of related languages is very helpful.
Stefan Klein wrote:Cadascú troba la felicitat en un lloc diferent. Per alguns la felicitat significa caminar descalç per un prat, amb la rosada del matí; per altres, agafar el seu nadó en braços. El sexe pot fer feliç, o un vestit nou de moda, una salsitxa o el Concert núm. 13 de Mozart per a piano i orquestra. O l’absència de tot això; un monjo zen troba la joia quan es capbussa en el buit. (my loose translation) Everyone finds happiness in a different place. For some happiness means walking barefoot on a beach, in the rosy glow of a morning sunrise; for others, to hold their baby in their arms. Sex can make someone happy, or a new fashionable dress, a sausage or the Concerto No. 13 of Mozart for piano and orchestra. Or the absence of all of that; a Zen monk finds joy when he is immersed in emptiness.

Despite this ability, which I enjoy and will probably be the majority of my interaction in Catalan- consuming media, I still don't "speak" the language. As far as production goes, I'll be happy to be able to converse and write a bit from time to time. I'm enjoying the journey so far and there's no rush at all to get there.

Orevwa mezanmi pou kounyea disi pwochen fwa a. Mèsi anpil pou li tout sa.
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IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
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Languages: Studying: Esperanto
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Tested:
BCS, 1+L/1+R (DLPT5, 2022)
Russian, 3/3 (DLPT5, 2022) 2+ (OPI, 2022)
German, 2L/1+R (DLPT5, 2021)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT IV, 2019)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby IronMike » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:14 pm

Hey, just read your in-depth on multi-tracking. Had no idea that's what I've been doing all these years. ;)

You mention GLOSS in it, and I gotta say, I agree: No idea why more people aren't using it. I used it off and on during my military career, and was incredibly glad to see that it is still available to me. (Some sites require you come from a .mil or .gov ISP.)

Been using it to revive my Serbian and Croatian. In fact, must return to it now as I'm in the middle of a lesson right now. Cheers!
2 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

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iguanamon
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2363
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:14 am
Location: Virgin Islands
Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan (B2)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby iguanamon » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:49 pm

IronMike wrote:Hey, just read your in-depth on multi-tracking. Had no idea that's what I've been doing all these years. ;)
You mention GLOSS in it, and I gotta say, I agree: No idea why more people aren't using it. I used it off and on during my military career, and was incredibly glad to see that it is still available to me. ...
It is somewhat perplexing that on a site where so many people are learning languages that GLOSS covers, so few are actually taking advantage of this free resource. DLI GLOSS gives lessons that incorporate reading and also listening using native materials, graded to be level appropriate- all computer based.

I think there could be, perhaps, a few reasons for this.
1) The name GLOSS. It's an acronym for Global Language Online Support System, but the word associated with the acronym has connotations in English- to "gloss" over something meaning to give something a glance but not really take it in; lip "gloss"- a shiny substance. People don't know what is meant when someone recommends using "GLOSS". So if a member mentions it the whole thing gets sort of "glossed over" by the one seeking advice due to this.
2) Few people talk about the site in their logs.
3) It's self directed. As self-learners, ironically, many of us do not what to do without direction and GLOSS doesn't provide any except for within the lessons themselves.
4) DLI- the Defense Language Institute is a part of the US military and some people might think that it has a strictly military focus. It doesn't, at least what I have looked at in Spanish and Portuguese.
5) It doesn't help that "gloss.dliflc.edu uses an invalid security certificate". Your taxpayers dollars at work! You have to add an exception on firefox to connect.

I didn't use it when I learned Spanish because I already had a high level and didn't need it for advancing. I used it some for Portuguese, but with my extensive use of native materials, once again, I didn't really need it.

I think gloss represents a great compromise for those learners who don't want to delve into native materials on their own for learning because there is absolutely no filter, level appropriate grading or direction at all. GLOSS does provide graded levels, interaction, an answer key and native material incorporation into lessons. It would be good for learners who want to, but are fearful to, use native materials after having gone through half or more of an Assimil course or all of it and wonder what to do next.

If GLOSS had a Catalan section, I'd use it. If I ever learn one of the languages it covers, I will take advantage of it. It's a great cross between jumping into native materials and still going through courses. It's appropriate for use by beginners through intermediate levels. Some languages have many more lessons than others.

DLI GLOSS has support for the following languages: Albanian; Arabic-Iraqi; Arabic-Levantine; Arabic-MSA; Arabic-Sudanese; Arabic-Yemeni; Azerbaijani; Balochi; Chinese-Mandarin; Croatian; Dari; Farsi; French; German; Greek; Hausa; Hebrew; Hindi; Indonesian; Japanese; Korean; Kurmanji; North-Korean; Pashto; Portuguese-Brazilian; Portuguese-European; Punjabi; Russian; Serbian; Somali; Sorani; Spanish; Swahili; Tagalog; Thai; Turkish; Turkmen; Urdu; Uzbek
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