Zelda's French Log (+ Modern Greek)

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garyb
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Re: Zelda's French Log

Postby garyb » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:32 am

That book is aimed at advanced students so some parts make more sense when you've already had a lot of exposure to the language: I had quite a few "a-ha" moments of "so that's why people say it that way!" or "I've been getting that wrong for years!". Those parts might not be so useful for concepts that are new or relatively new to you. As I said before I think much of the material would also useful at a lower level, but I wouldn't worry too much about the parts that feel overwhelming. It will probably become much clearer when you come back to it at a later point.
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MrsStarez
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Re: Zelda's French Log

Postby MrsStarez » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:01 pm

So my plan is to change my method but still study the book daily. Instead of doing every lesson in order, I will mark the lessons that I deem the most useful (or fun) and then work through those lessons. The most important lessons are the ones that will aid me in my ability to read more complex sentences. At the end I can go back and complete the remaining lessons if I want.


Hello!

I’m doing something similar, using Kiwziq and Lawless French. They send over an email every few days with lessons that its “brain map” thinks you need. Having done a few of their “Kwizes”, I know where I’m weak (and it sounds like I’m similar to you with the prepositions) so I’m going to focus on those bits first.
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zjones
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Re: Zelda's French Log

Postby zjones » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:42 pm

garyb wrote:That book is aimed at advanced students so some parts make more sense when you've already had a lot of exposure to the language: I had quite a few "a-ha" moments of "so that's why people say it that way!" or "I've been getting that wrong for years!". Those parts might not be so useful for concepts that are new or relatively new to you. As I said before I think much of the material would also useful at a lower level, but I wouldn't worry too much about the parts that feel overwhelming. It will probably become much clearer when you come back to it at a later point.


You hit the nail on the head. I've had quite a few of those "aha" moments as well, but sometimes I'm just confused by the distinctions that are being made -- and I think it's because I haven't had as much exposure to French as this book assumes. It's a great book, but I need to work through it at my current level. :)
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Re: Zelda's French Log

Postby Cavesa » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:15 pm

I don't think the Progressif books are meant to be done from cover to cover. I have always profited from them (and similar ones) the most, when I was choosing my own order of the lessons based on my needs. So, I think you'll be fine. Perfectionnement is quite challenging, but it should move your forward a lot. You'll be fine, I don't think you should let a few hard passages discourage you :-)
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Re: Zelda's French Log

Postby zjones » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:57 pm

I haven't posted in awhile, because I did a week of French immersion at home and I couldn't use any English resources. It was really interesting and I got a chance to try out some new resources.

Below I posted a couple paragraphs of notes that I wrote after the week was over.

Thoughts on my French Immersion Week

I certainly noticed positive benefits from cutting out English resources and adding French ones. The most useful activities consisted of sheer exposure, especially through TV shows and videos. My spoken French is more versatile even though it is still at a basic level. My reading level has not improved drastically, but everything feels much more fluid and I'm noticing and identifying specific areas where my reading comprehension lacks.

My daily routine normally included writing a to-do list in French, finishing a grammar lesson, reading Harry Potter, watching Dix Pour Cent, completing an hour of FSI drills, playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey in French, and supplementing with short videos and articles. I spoke to my animals and my husband in French when possible or convenient. On average, I spent at least 5 hours per day engaging with French content. My only English stronghold was having conversations with my husband and friends. I am an introvert and don't get out much, but I still found myself using English more than I wanted.

I would like to continue this week's activities into the future, with the exception of allowing one recreational English activity per day.


FSI French Basic

So... I want to write a little bit about FSI. I've never applied myself to this program before, although I know a lot about it from the forum. I started from the beginning of the FSI French Basic course, working through the tapes one by one. I repeated the drills as instructed, trying not to read the PDF unless I had trouble understanding the audio (which happened fairly often).

Yes, the drills are a little dry but not too bad, especially since I know they're helping me with my verbal dexterity. Occasionally I found myself with a numb tongue after an hour of drills, depending on my familiarity with specific words and formulations. Unfortunately, I'm not so happy with the actual content of the drills. There are inversions and vouvoiement everywhere, as well as uncommon formations like "Dois-je" and "Puis-je". Occasionally I'll adjust the drill to my preferences, for example using "euro" where they are using "franc", but I still feel like the formality of the drills are contrary the effect that I want from drilling, which is to be able to speak everyday French with everyday French people.

It doesn't help that I keep getting comments about how my spoken French sounds too formal due to my use of inversions. :(

I wish there was a French drill program that didn't use such formal or dated speech, but I am not aware of any other drill-based methods other than FSI. If anyone could enlighten me, I'd be very happy.
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DaveAgain
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Re: Zelda's French Log

Postby DaveAgain » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:53 pm

zjones wrote: Unfortunately, I'm not so happy with the actual content of the drills. There are inversions and vouvoiement everywhere, as well as uncommon formations like "Dois-je" and "Puis-je". Occasionally I'll adjust the drill to my preferences, for example using "euro" where they are using "franc", but I still feel like the formality of the drills are contrary the effect that I want from drilling, which is to be able to speak everyday French with everyday French people.

It doesn't help that I keep getting comments about how my spoken French sounds too formal due to my use of inversions. :(

I wish there was a French drill program that didn't use such formal or dated speech, but I am not aware of any other drill-based methods other than FSI. If anyone could enlighten me, I'd be very happy.
Cavesa and Xmmm have both mentioned talking to the TV, repeating the dialogue of the TV series they're watching. Perhaps that's something you could consider?

(In the case of Dix Pour Cent you could even buy a copy of the screenplay.)
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Re: Zelda's French Log

Postby Melkor » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:31 am

zjones wrote: It doesn't help that I keep getting comments about how my spoken French sounds too formal due to my use of inversions. :(

I am really surprised that you and your interlocutors would find this to be a bad thing. Why does speaking formally - and sounding educated - sound bad when you are clearly an L2 French speaker? I would rather sound formal (and thus educated) in any language instead of using heavily slang-infused lingo. I am always impressed to hear L2 speakers of English and German speak formally. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Perhaps you need a new circle of friends ;)
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Re: Zelda's French Log

Postby galaxyrocker » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:03 am

Melkor wrote:
zjones wrote: It doesn't help that I keep getting comments about how my spoken French sounds too formal due to my use of inversions. :(

I am really surprised that you and your interlocutors would find this to be a bad thing. Why does speaking formally - and sounding educated - sound bad when you are clearly an L2 French speaker? I would rather sound formal (and thus educated) in any language instead of using heavily slang-infused lingo. I am always impressed to hear L2 speakers of English and German speak formally. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Perhaps you need a new circle of friends ;)


Some people want to speak a language as naturally as possible or like the natives do. Therefore formal language isn't what they're looking for, and it's often out if place when used among friends. I'm one of those people, and actually focus on learning what is natural opposed to what is 'standard'. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to learn both.

I also disagree with the notion that sounding educated us better than sounding natural. Even among natives. It often comes down to register and why you're using the language.
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Melkor
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Re: Zelda's French Log

Postby Melkor » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:51 pm

galaxyrocker wrote:Some people want to speak a language as naturally as possible or like the natives do. Therefore formal language isn't what they're looking for, and it's often out if place when used among friends. I'm one of those people, and actually focus on learning what is natural opposed to what is 'standard'. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to learn both.

Ironically, some natives prefer to speak formally, even to their friends and families. I am reasonably balanced and use both formal and informal registers, however, I am beginning to resist the slippery slope that is "keeping up with the latest slang" because that changes every single day. It is good to use both, but I think that it sounds much better when someone speaks formally, and then you get to find out that the said formal speaker is actually an extremely amazing person.

galaxyrocker wrote: I also disagree with the notion that sounding educated us better than sounding natural. Even among natives. It often comes down to register and why you're using the language.

Clearly, it is a matter of preference. I have recently made friends with someone who talks formally (yes, I am talking about you, Skynet :lol: ). I find the way he speaks very interesting and perfectly natural because he reads a great deal, and yet does not sound affected when speaking. People generally have negative opinions about people who use the formal register, however, I a, intrigued by it, and I am pretty sure that some of the skeptics secretly feel the same way too. :lol:
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zjones
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Re: Zelda's French Log

Postby zjones » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:16 pm

Melkor wrote:
zjones wrote: It doesn't help that I keep getting comments about how my spoken French sounds too formal due to my use of inversions. :(

I am really surprised that you and your interlocutors would find this to be a bad thing. Why does speaking formally - and sounding educated - sound bad when you are clearly an L2 French speaker? I would rather sound formal (and thus educated) in any language instead of using heavily slang-infused lingo. I am always impressed to hear L2 speakers of English and German speak formally. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Perhaps you need a new circle of friends ;)


Excessively formal speech often sounds antiquated and awkward. Wide vocabulary and variety of expression ≠ formality.

And regardless of what you think of formality, I want to sound natural and to speak well within the context of a situation, especially when I am almost exclusively using tutoiement. I trust my teacher when he says I should prefer "est-ce que" in the context of everyday speech, he's well-educated and well-spoken in both French and English.
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