PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:21 pm

Right now I perhaps should be getting on with catching up with the Tour de France, or going to bed as I am actually more tired than I should be, but obviously I need some rest.....

I want to talk about my new multi-lingual language learning plan even though I should be immersing myself in French exam prep and be focused on the task at hand... This plan will kick off late November 2019.

************************************************************************************************
Version française :

PROJET DE CINQ LANGUES

le français
le norvégien
le néerlandais
l'espagnol
l'allemand

Les règles
* 5 langues au total.
* 3 heures d'études intensives chaque jour divisées en 4 séances de 45 minutes.
* 4 langues seront étudiées activement, par roulement.
* 1 langue sera mise en suspens chaque mois.
* Dès que la langue qui a été mise en suspens pendant un mois sera reprise, je l'étudierai deux fois (deux séances de 45 minutes) chaque tournée de langues, alors que les autres ne seront étudiées qu'une fois chaque tournée. Au même moment une autre langue sera mise en attente.
* Alors, le premier mois aura l'air comme ça :

Les quatre langues activement étudiée :
le français le néerlandais (le FR en suspens le 1er mois, le NL sera étudié 2 fois chaque tournée, jusqu'au prochain mois)
le norvégien
le néerlandais
l'espagnol
l'allemand

Ainsi, les séances, par roulement :
45 min de néerlandais
45 min de norvégien
45 min de néerlandais
45 min d'espagnol
45 min d'allemand

Si je commençais lundi, par exemple, les trois premiers jours apparaîtrait comme ce qu'on voit ci-dessous :
LUNDI
45 min de néerlandais (total = 45 min)
45 min de norvégien (total = 1.5 hrs)
45 min de néerlandais (total = 2 hrs, 15 min)
45 min d'espagnol (total = 3 hrs)

MARDI
45 min d'allemand (total = 45 min)
45 min de néerlandais (total = 1.5 hrs)
45 min de norvégien (total = 2 hrs, 15 min)
45 min de néerlandais (total = 3 hrs)

MERCREDI
45 min d'espagnol (total = 45 min)
45 min d'allemand (total = 1.5 hrs)
45 min néerlandais (total = 2 hrs, 15 min)
45 min norvégien (total = 3 heures)

ETC
Le prochain mois, le français serait reprise et je l'étudierais en deux séances de 45 minutes chaque tournée de langues, le néerlandais serait étudié pendant 45 minutes seulement une fois chaque tournée de langues et une autre langue serait mise en suspens (l'allemand, par exemple).


English version (same as French version, just written in English):

FIVE LANGUAGE PROJECT

French
Norwegian
Dutch
Spanish
German

The Rules
* 5 languages in total.
* 3 hours of intensive study each day, divided into 4 sessions of 45 minutes
* 4 languages will be studied actively, alternating through them.
* 1 language will be suspended each month.
* As soon as the language which was suspended for a month is taken up again, I will study it twice (two 45 minute sessions) each round of languages, while the others will only be studied once per round of languages. Meanwhile another language will be put on hold.

* Therefore, the first month will look like this:

The four languages actively studied:
French Dutch (FR suspended for the first month, NL to be studied twice each round of languages, until the next month)
Norwegian
Dutch
Spanish
German

Thus, the sessions, alternating through:
45 min of Dutch
45 min of Norwegian
45 min of Dutch
45 min of Spanish
45 min of German

If I started on Monday, for example, the first three days would appear like below:
MONDAY
45 min of Dutch (total = 45 min)
45 min of Norwegian (total = 1.5 hrs)
45 min of Dutch (total = 2 hrs, 15 min)
45 min of Spanish (total = 3 hrs)

TUESDAY
45 min of German (total = 45 min)
45 min of Dutch (total = 1.5 hrs)
45 min of Norwegian (total = 2 hrs, 15 min)
45 min of Dutch (total = 3 hrs)

WEDNESDAY
45 min of Spanish (total = 45 min)
45 min of German (total = 1.5 hrs)
45 min of Dutch (total = 2 hrs, 15 min)
45 min of Norwegian (total = 3 hrs)

ETC
The next month, French would be back and studied in 2 sessions of 45 min through each round of languages, Dutch would return to one 45 min session and another language would be suspended for the month (eg German).
************************************************************************************************

A couple of points.
*Why all languages at once? First, because we're intending to go to Europe around 2022, and I'd like to arrive with a good smattering of several languages under my belt as opposed to being advanced in perhaps only 2 languages. Secondly, I'd like to start teaching my kids more about other languages and more of other languages, and for this I feel a slow growth of several languages at once is better than an all out assault on another language all the way to an advanced level which could take several years. I'm also motivated to try this, as opposed to sticking to just one or two languages. Motivation counts for a lot.

*Why 45 minute sessions? An hour seems a little long when learning five languages. 45 minutes always for less time between study sessions before coming back to language XYZ the next time. 30 minutes seems too short to progress enough within a session.

*Why suspend a language each month? I wanted to incorporate/try some of the theory behind the 'bow-wave effect' by cycling a language out of active study each month. It may make for more progress on the whole, as breaks can be stale. Years of consistent French have taught me that breaks are worth a shot because I've become a little stale at times.

*I reserve the right to fail at this. Try not to criticise without reflection (still, valid questioning is welcome) - it's worth a try, right?

*I reserve the right to add or remove languages. German may conflict with Dutch, so I might decide to learn Russian or Arabic instead. I might feel I can add more languages and be happy with even slower progress forward. I might get frustrated and want to reduce the number back to 4,3,2 or 1. Who knows, but it's worth trying, I think, even if to only learn that it's not practical.

*Were I to not miss a day, I'd learn 219 hours of each language each year. Not awesome, not miserable.

* I plan on using predominantly French and Dutch outside of my intensive study time as my go to languages for reading, listening etc (entertainment). So these languages will still get more overall time than the rest, which is logical given they are the most important at this stage in my life.



Now, I need to get focused on the French exam in November, which by the way if I decide to skip again, this plan will still go ahead. If I fail or pass the exam, this plan will still go ahead.
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rdearman
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby rdearman » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:32 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:*Why all languages at once? First, because we're intending to go to Europe around 2022, and I'd like to arrive with a good smattering of several languages under my belt as opposed to being advanced in perhaps only 2 languages

Technically 3 since your English is fair to middling... :D

EDIT: Also if you are going to swap out a language for German, why not another European one like Polish or perhaps Italian?
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby iguanamon » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:59 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:...This plan will kick off late November 2019.
[color=#0000FF]Version française :
PROJET DE CINQ LANGUES
le français
le norvégien
le néerlandais
l'espagnol
l'allemand

Wow, two Germanic languages at beginner levels, plus resuming Dutch?! Personally, I'd find it difficult to have any two languages on the go at beginner levels still, I'll be looking forward to see how you progress with all this on your plate :) . I do like your idea of having a smattering of those languages at least. I wonder if beginner courses are the most effective/efficient route to take for gaining a "smattering" of languages, or if mastering something like FSI/DLI "FAST" courses might be more appropriate.
PeterMollenburg wrote:...Now, I need to get focused on the French exam in November, which by the way if I decide to skip again, this plan will still go ahead. If I fail or pass the exam, this plan will still go ahead.

Sounds like fun, and a man with a plan- a PM plan, of course !
Bòn chans !
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:15 pm

rdearman wrote:Also if you are going to swap out a language for German, why not another European one like Polish or perhaps Italian?


They’re not languages I intend to learn/ have ever been overly interested in. If I dropped out German due to confusion with Dutch and/or Norwegian, I’d avoid Italian due to already learning Spanish, otherwise more confusion is likely to arise. Polish I’m just not keen on. Russian or Arabic are possibilities.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:23 pm

iguanamon wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:...This plan will kick off late November 2019.
[color=#0000FF]Version française :
PROJET DE CINQ LANGUES
le français
le norvégien
le néerlandais
l'espagnol
l'allemand

Wow, two Germanic languages at beginner levels, plus resuming Dutch?! Personally, I'd find it difficult to have any two languages on the go at beginner levels still, I'll be looking forward to see how you progress with all this on your plate :) . I do like your idea of having a smattering of those languages at least. I wonder if beginner courses are the most effective/efficient route to take for gaining a "smattering" of languages, or if mastering something like FSI/DLI "FAST" courses might be more appropriate.
PeterMollenburg wrote:...Now, I need to get focused on the French exam in November, which by the way if I decide to skip again, this plan will still go ahead. If I fail or pass the exam, this plan will still go ahead.

Sounds like fun, and a man with a plan- a PM plan, of course !
Bòn chans !


Thanks for your feedback iguanamon. Yeah, 3 Germanic languages, I know. And we have discussed that before, you and I. You always have wise advice when I request it (or anyone else) on language learning. I can only try and if I end up with issues (not convinced I will, I’ll just see what happens), then German goes, and as mentioned with rdearman, I may/may not add another language in it’s place. I know Russian and Arabic a massive undertakings, so if I took one of them on, I’d be very realistic about the idea that progress would be super slow. Or I might just add the extra time to more Dutch, a language I need to progress in a little quicker than the others - a reason I need to be efficient. Thankfully Dutch is very familiar to me.

Anyway, yep, hopefully I have a lot of fun with it! Hope your studies are going well too!
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby Lianne » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:32 am

Looks like fun!! I like it. Now for the hard part: not changing your mind between now and November. ;)
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:49 am

Lianne wrote:Looks like fun!! I like it. Now for the hard part: not changing your mind between now and November. ;)


You must have read my mind, I was just thinking the same ;)
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby Kat » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:55 pm

overscore wrote:Are there really that many false friends?

Elsa Maria wrote:I don't know any German, so I have no idea. Maybe Kat or trui will give an answer. I think that there is a lot of overlap with vocabulary but the grammars are very different. That would be hard for me to keep straight until I was really strong in one of them. But, hey, we're all different.


I think false friends aren't the main problem, even though there are plenty of them. A lot of Dutch and German words are similar but not quite the same. I can't think of any good examples at the moment (my brain doesn't work properly when it's close to 40 degrees Celsius), so I'm just going to mention one small issue that comes to mind:

In both, German and Dutch, the infinitive of verbs ends in -en. When you pronounce them, Germans usually skip the "e", while Dutch people tend to skip the "n". It's not hard, you just need get used to it and I imagine that it's confusing when you are trying to learn both forms at the same time. You'll see things that look the same and different rules apply.
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby Skynet » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:07 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:PROJET DE CINQ LANGUES

le français
le norvégien
le néerlandais
l'espagnol
l'allemand


Congratulations PM! I must say that I am surprised that Norwegian made it to the list, but if there's one person who's dedicated enough to stick with a language for X years, it's you!
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM’s French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:34 am

Skynet wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:PROJET DE CINQ LANGUES

le français
le norvégien
le néerlandais
l'espagnol
l'allemand


Congratulations PM! I must say that I am surprised that Norwegian made it to the list, but if there's one person who's dedicated enough to stick with a language for X years, it's you!


Thanks, Skynet. I appreciate the positive support. I doubt that consistency will be an issue in terms of motivation, although, who knows what the future holds. However, consistency may become an issue where potential outside factors encroach on time available for study, that will likely be the biggest challenge.

But I am quite excited about studying all these languages. French - well that’s a given, it’s so nice to have come so far! Dutch - I’ve been itching to return! Norwegian - it’ll be really cool to study a new language from scratch. Spanish - I’m very keen on working my way through Destinos. German - I’m not so keen on the upcoming grammar headaches! (but at least it’s not Finnish!), and German was my first love, so it’ll be nice to return and hopefully move beyond where I’ve ventured in the past.

Thanks for stopping by Skynet!
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