Pete Mollenburg's Adventures in the Matrix in French and a tad of other languages

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iguanamon
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby iguanamon » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:17 pm

I'm happy to see you back, PM and, you are not an idiot. I'm also happy to see that you will be studying the exam format thoroughly between now and the exam date. That's a great idea. Whatever happens, I wish you the best of luck and success... in the exam and in your upcoming move. :)
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby smallwhite » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:12 am

Rather than how you fare learning French, I'm now more interested in how you will fare not learning Arabic living in Saudi Arabia.
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Adrianslont
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby Adrianslont » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:34 am

Are you really going to be able to make more on one Saudi wage than on two Australian wages? If not, you will be going backwards financially.

I am only sticking my nose in your financial affairs because you raise them and I am Australian and I know nurses get paid reasonably well here. And two minutes google tells me that one Saudi wage doesn’t equal two Australian ones and may not even equal one, depending on the job, of course. And of course I know nothing of your wife’s job situation, the Saudi tax regime or cost of living. So, though I am obviously much less well informed than you, I still feel compelled to ask the above question.

If you can indeed make more money with one Saudi wage than with two Australian wages, it is a good opportunity - providing you like where you are living. I have in the past gone overseas to work myself and done well - but both myself and my wife worked.
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:09 am

iguanamon wrote:I'm happy to see you back, PM and, you are not an idiot. I'm also happy to see that you will be studying the exam format thoroughly between now and the exam date. That's a great idea. Whatever happens, I wish you the best of luck and success... in the exam and in your upcoming move. :)


Hi iguanamon :) Very supportive on your behalf as usual and I very much appreciate it, thank you iguanamon :) I hope all is well with you.

smallwhite wrote:Rather than how you fare learning French, I'm now more interested in how you will fare not learning Arabic living in Saudi Arabia.


According to Wikipedia, 15% of the population speak English. According to some feedback we have received, many shopkeepers are foreign (from India and the Phillipines mainly I hear). Apparently not many Saudis work so interactions with Saudis could be limited. How true these statements and Wikipedia are, I don’t know. We will be living in a compound in which other westerners live. Therefore, it might be quite easy to exist in a western bubble it seems.

I don’t like my attitude here, but I’m reluctant to take Arabic seriously. I think the script is interesting and I see it as being both highly useful and opening up wonders of discovery. However, I’m afraid of the serious time sink I could fall into. I have been such a perfectionist with French, if this transferred to Arabic, other European languages might not see the light of day for ten years. That’s not a stretch given I’m soon entering my sixth year of a category one language. Half an hour a day you might say? Seriously, that could be just wasting time, as this language likely needs a much larger time commitment to progress even at a slowish rate.

Adrianslont wrote:Are you really going to be able to make more on one Saudi wage than on two Australian wages? If not, you will be going backwards financially.

I am only sticking my nose in your financial affairs because you raise them and I am Australian and I know nurses get paid reasonably well here. And two minutes google tells me that one Saudi wage doesn’t equal two Australian ones and may not even equal one, depending on the job, of course. And of course I know nothing of your wife’s job situation, the Saudi tax regime or cost of living. So, though I am obviously much less well informed than you, I still feel compelled to ask the above question.

If you can indeed make more money with one Saudi wage than with two Australian wages, it is a good opportunity - providing you like where you are living. I have in the past gone overseas to work myself and done well - but both myself and my wife worked.


Edited:

Details removed, as uncomfortable with my details of finances, although vague, included in my log. In short- yes, we will be better off in Saudi financially as we currently work less than two full-time wages in Australia due to our values which we do not want to compromise on.
Last edited by PeterMollenburg on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby Adrianslont » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:36 am

Okay, now that I know you don’t work two full time jobs in Australia it’s making financial sense.

And I’d guessed housing and utilities would be subsidised in Saudi.

I totally understand the idea of working six or seven days between you in Australia - I’ve been there and done that when children were younger. And apart from family values, we would have basically been working one job for nothing after the high cost of putting two children in childcare. It just didn’t make financial sense so I worked regular hours and my wife worked a few hours in the evening and from home - total about 7 days between us.

But what about education costs for the children? That can be a big cost for expat families - is that sorted?

Edited: at Peter’s request, removed my quote from his above post
Last edited by Adrianslont on Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:45 am

Adrianslont wrote:Okay, now that I know you don’t work two full time jobs in Australia it’s making financial sense.

And I’d guessed housing and utilities would be subsidised in Saudi.

I totally understand the idea of working six or seven days between you in Australia - I’ve been there and done that when children were younger. And apart from family values, we would have basically been working one job for nothing after the high cost of putting two children in childcare. It just didn’t make financial sense so I worked regular hours and my wife worked a few hours in the evening and from home - total about 7 days between us.

But what about education costs for the children? That can be a big cost for expat families - is that sorted?


Yes, childcare is expensive. Sounds like you do know where we’re coming from given your experience.

Education is subsidised. However we have been intending on homeschooling anyway.

Edited by PM: Details removed for reasons of privacy
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:17 am

C'mon... you saw it coming....

Now after reading through this thread on learning Arabic (2015 on HTLAL), which Xenops had posted somewhere on LLORG: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=0&TPN=1

I'm reconsidering Arabic. I mean, I'll be there, on location. I have felt that, as probably noted, that it's just a little crazy to ignore the local language while there... still Arabic scares me (the immense complications involved that are not present with, say... French!). And I've been living in a French world while in Australia for such a long time now and it's often seemed a little disconnected. I don't know, I'm confused... :evil:
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby renaissancemedici » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:33 am

If you plan to stay there a long time then I think it's worth it. If not, then satisfy your wanderlust with conversational language and don't lose your French exam momentum.
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby MattNeilsen » Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:10 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:C'mon... you saw it coming....

Now after reading through this thread on learning Arabic (2015 on HTLAL), which Xenops had posted somewhere on LLORG: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=0&TPN=1

I'm reconsidering Arabic. I mean, I'll be there, on location. I have felt that, as probably noted, that it's just a little crazy to ignore the local language while there... still Arabic scares me (the immense complications involved that are not present with, say... French!). And I've been living in a French world while in Australia for such a long time now and it's often seemed a little disconnected. I don't know, I'm confused... :evil:


Give in to the dark side and come join us in Team Middle East! We need more love for Semitic languages around here... :)
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Re: Pete Mollenburg's French Adventures in the Matrix

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:39 pm

renaissancemedici wrote:If you plan to stay there a long time then I think it's worth it. If not, then satisfy your wanderlust with conversational language and don't lose your French exam momentum.


Thanks for your comments renaissancemedici. We are thinking we will be there for two years at this point, but the reality on the ground might be different.

Still, going with that time frame, I kinda think I’d be mad not to take advantage of the situation and our time there.

MattNeilsen wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:C'mon... you saw it coming....

Now after reading through this thread on learning Arabic (2015 on HTLAL), which Xenops had posted somewhere on LLORG: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=0&TPN=1

I'm reconsidering Arabic. I mean, I'll be there, on location. I have felt that, as probably noted, that it's just a little crazy to ignore the local language while there... still Arabic scares me (the immense complications involved that are not present with, say... French!). And I've been living in a French world while in Australia for such a long time now and it's often seemed a little disconnected. I don't know, I'm confused... :evil:


Give in to the dark side and come join us in Team Middle East! We need more love for Semitic languages around here... :)


Hi MattNeilson, I shall venture over to the dark side, for an initial visit. You know, suss out what life’s like on campus :)
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I’ve now compiled a French list of learning resources and an English one. My goal is to use French based resources as much as possible.

Ideally, I would aim for two to three hours a day of Arabic study time. If I drop all formal study of French for the two years it won’t hurt my French, as I will use native French content in my down time to maintain the language (books, series mainly). I could even progress a little depending on how much time I have.

Norwegian I really don’t know what to do, as my daughter would like to learn some, and that requires me to impart knowledge I don’t currently have. Therefore, studying/learning Norwegian would be required, but time is limited. Do I put that on hold too? Keep in mind we’re likely to never return to S.A. Norwegian is almost as distant from the local culture as one can get.

Which raises another topic. Most ressources I’ve found are for learning MSA or literary Arabic, which from my understanding is MSA with a sprinkling of dialectual influences perhaps. None of my resources in French focus on the particular dialects of Saudi. One French ressource is a little broader, focusing on Gulf Arabic. Some of the English resources focus on Gulf Arabic and Saudi Arabic, but unfortunately not the Najdi dialect of the capital, Riyadh.

Finding a good French-Arabic phonetic dictionary is also appearing tricky. I’m open to suggestions. A good picture/visual French-Arabic dictionary would be great too, and one with phonetics invaluable. I could add some new French vocabulary to my repertoire during my Arabic studies at little cost in terms of time on Arabic.

Here are my ressource lists so far (I don’t currently possess anything on these lists):

Manuels En Français pour apprendre l’arabe :

1. Assimil Apprendre L’Arabe Faux Débutants (MSA)
2. Assimil Arabe Débutants - Les cahiers d’exercices (MSA)
3. Assimil Arabe Les Bases Débutants - Les cahiers d’ecriture (MSA)
4. Assimil Arabe Faux Débutants - Les cahiers d’exercices (MSA)
5. Assimil l’arabe des pays du Golfe
6. Arabe Audio en Parallèle
7. Glossika Arabe-Français
8. 40 Leçons pour parler Arabe (livre + 2 CD)
9. Arabe - Grammaire Active - exposé des règles, exercices et corrigés
10. Arabe : Les verbes
11. Méthode 90. Arabe Pratique de Bases (Arabe débutant 1 leçon par jour pendant 3 mois)
12. Assimil L’Arabe (livre + 2CD)
13. Manuel d’arabe littéral
14. Manuel d'arabe en ligne: Les bases de l'arabe en 50 semaines -Tome I
15. Manuel d'arabe en ligne: Les bases de l'arabe en 50 semaines -Tome II
16. Manuel d'arabe en ligne: Les bases de l'arabe en 50 semaines -Tome III
17. Manuel d’Arabe Moderne 1
18. Manuel d'arabe en ligne: Les bases de l'arabe en 50 semaines -Tome IV (pas encore disponible)
19. Manuel d'arabe en ligne: Les bases de l'arabe en 50 semaines -Tome V (pas encore disponible)
20. Manuel d’Arabe Moderne 2
21. Manuel d'arabe en ligne: Les bases de l'arabe en 50 semaines -Tome VI (pas encore disponible)
22. Manuel d'arabe en ligne: Les bases de l'arabe en 50 semaines -Tome VII (pas encore disponible)
23. Assimil Perfectionnement Arabe
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Manuels En Anglais pour apprendre l’arabe:

1. The Arabic Alphabet: How to Read & Write It
2. Living Language Arabic Complete Ed. (MSA)
3. TY Arabic Complete Course (Jack Smart, 2003)
4. Colloquial Arabic of the Gulf and Saudi Arabia (1984)
5. Mastering Arabic 1
6. DLI Arabic Saudi Headstart
7. Basic Arabic: A Grammar and Workbook
8. Mastering Arabic Script
9. Mastering Arabic Grammar
10. Mastering Arabic Vocabulary and Pronunciation
11. FSI Saudi Arabic
12. Arabic vs Arabic A Dialect Sampler
13. FSI Written Arabic
14. DLI Arabic General
15. Mastering Arabic 2

Disclaimer: I’m not planning on using/purchasing all these resources (unless I really progress a long way down that path). I would only obtain two or three courses at a time (depending on their relevant size and focus). Once complete, I would source the next most appropriate on the list et ainsi de suite. What’s that you say? Good bye Pete Mollenburg, see you in ten or twenty years?
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