Re: PM’s French Re-entry into the Matrix - Phase 1: 500 Hours Extensive Reading

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's 1000 hrs of French in 254 days to C1 Nov. 2018

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:10 am

reineke wrote:Duchesse, région (twice) don't sound right. In general these two sounds sound a bit off:

https://youtu.be/L_OFwpkAqFM

Otherwise I'd say you did a great job. I will of course defer to Arnaud.


Thanks for the link and advice. I'm not entirely happy with the recording, but I am surprised to learn the above irregularities are in there. I'm not denying they are there of course, as perhaps it is the very sounds we feel are easy that slip through the cracks and sound a bit off. It shows there's always room for improvement - hopefully Arnaud doesn't rip the recording to pieces. Anyway generally I've felt that those two sounds have been nil issue for me, but maybe I'm wrong, or maybe these are isolated cases, more analysis needed. I can't listen in my current location, so I'll have to edit this post when I do. Thanks again reineke ;)
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Re: PM's 1000 hrs of French in 254 days to C1 Nov. 2018

Postby Arnaud » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:03 am

reineke wrote:Duchesse, région (twice) don't sound right. In general these two sounds sound a bit off:
I agree with you, nothing to add.
In ...lui fut rattachée..., "lui" is too long and I didn't understand the word (I hear something like "luire").
I'll do the same remark as usual: when you read, there is a general problem of intonation, the speech is too monotonous, and it's especially clear in this recording because you speak english before and after french in a lively, natural style. I think the problem is more related to "how to read naturally" than "how good is my french accent" (rather good, everybody knows that)
NB: In breton, the ch of deoc'h is pronounced like in german (but in the assimil recording, I also hear the k sound: déok), just for info... ;)
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Re: PM's 1000 hrs of French in 254 days to C1 Nov. 2018

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:15 am

Arnaud wrote:
reineke wrote:Duchesse, région (twice) don't sound right. In general these two sounds sound a bit off:
I agree with you, nothing to add.
In ...lui fut rattachée..., "lui" is too long and I didn't understand the word (I hear something like "luire").
I'll do the same remark as usual: when you read, there is a general problem of intonation, the speech is too monotonous, and it's especially clear in this recording because you speak english before and after french in a lively, natural style. I think the problem is more related to "how to read naturally" than "how good is my french accent" (rather good, everybody knows that)


Okay, thanks for your comments Arnaud. I will look into 'duchesse' and 'région'. Now that you have confirmed it, there's definitely an issue (sorry reineke, but to have your remarks backed up by Arnaud does validate them). Yes I hesitated with 'lui'. I remember doing that, so I'm not concerned about that, my flow was a little interrupted for whatever reason.

Yep, I agree, intonation isn't natural. I'm not concerned (I do appreciate you noticing it however), as I know this is a result of reading and reading with a little anxiety. And you're right, the how good is my accent does factor in. Okay with your last comment then, perhaps it serves little purpose to produce any more of these recordings, I don't think I'll go ahead with the others as planned, and just move on to spending my time more wisely. Thank you Arnaud for listening :)
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Re: PM's 1000 hrs of French in 254 days to C1 Nov. 2018

Postby Arnaud » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:43 am

PeterMollenburg wrote: perhaps it serves little purpose to produce any more of these recordings, I don't think I'll go ahead with the others as planned, and just move on to spending my time more wisely.
Fortunately, you didn't hear me read in russian or english, it's not very good, to say the least.
I don't want you to alter your plans because of my remarks (I'm more and more hesitant to post them in the different "judge my french" threads precisely because of the reactions they can trigger).
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Re: PM's 1000 hrs of French in 254 days to C1 Nov. 2018

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:21 am

Arnaud wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote: perhaps it serves little purpose to produce any more of these recordings, I don't think I'll go ahead with the others as planned, and just move on to spending my time more wisely.
Fortunately, you didn't hear me read in russian or english, it's not very good, to say the least.
I don't want you to alter your plans because of my remarks (I'm more and more hesitant to post them in the different "judge my french" threads precisely because of the reactions they can trigger).


Just so you know, my reaction was not a negative one at all, but more of a realisation that although the recordings have served me well up to this point, it might be time to give it a rest... I absolutely appreciate your feedback Arnaud, honestly.
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Re: PM's 1000 hrs of French in 254 days to C1 Nov. 2018

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:38 am

March 2018

Total French learning time 85 hours, 37 minutes.

Average for the month: 2 hours, 45 min/day

Breakdown:

I've finally broken the grasp held on me by a combination of courses and floundering about all over the place. Here's what I'm doing and how I'm travelling:

(Each hour commencing with 10 minutes of vocabulary study. I'm currently using "Michel Durand's Word's, Phrases and Sentences", a kindle ebook, which I'm progressing through nicely. I know most of the vocabulary but it's a good way to pick up some new words here and there and practice my sentence formation by covering up the French and attempting to reproduce it (always out loud) from the English.)

Extensive reading
I've been alternating between easy readers via the kindle app on my phone and this physical book: https://www.amazon.fr/enfants-sains-m%C3%AAme-sans-m%C3%A9decin/dp/B00511F98Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1522540935&sr=1-1&keywords=enfants+sans+m%C3%AAme+m%C3%A9decin

It's a translation of How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor. Quite old (1987), and with the many cited studies, outdated, yet often still very relevant, nonetheless. It's an easy enough and interesting enough read. It challenges the excessive and unnecessary medical interventions carried out on children who are treated within the medical system from an American perspective in particular. A ties with my experience that the medical system predominantly rushes to 'look busy' to find solutions using diagnostic tools that are often fraught with increased risk (radiation for example) in an attempt to appear as though something is being done, or with time limits. To me, although the medical system today is technologically advanced, it's fundamentally limited in many way. It does remain excellent for dealing with emergency situations and surgical interventions. However, the reliance on pharmaceuticals and run of the mill diagnostic interventions, usually irritates me greatly. The book also challenges fearful parents and presents them with options and reassurance regarding many medical conditions and basically how to avoid the medical system unless absolutely necessary, since most children, whose parents race them to the G.P. or nearest emergency department at the slightest sign of whatever, are fearful and simply over-reacting (and to be fair, they often don't understand this), and they enter the system which exposes their children to greater risks than necessary (i.e. usually not necessary at all). It's a book that attempts to tell the truth, to tell you how it really is, to stop worrying, UNLESS the situation is warranted in exceptional circumstances, while illustrating the limitations and the advantages of the medical system. As usual, I'm reading aloud.

Intensive reading
Since I don't like SRS programs so much lately, using Bien-dire to learn unknown vocabulary is something i'm very much enjoying lately, and like extensive reading, it's a part of my routine that's definitely valuable at this point.

Courses
I've finally dropped Assimil Using French from my 'desk study routine', as I completed a third wave. I'm continuing to use it sometimes on commutes to shadow some lessons. In my desk study routine (a rotation of 5 hour blocks, of which all are listed here as each of my activities), i'm using Practice Makes Perfect - The French Subjunctive Up Close, and a chapter and a half in, I'm very much enjoying it. I'm expanding on my own notes on the subjunctive previously built from various courses, while getting a finer sense of the details of the subjunctive, a mood which I feel I've not been the best at knowing when and how to use it up to this point. It's a great part of my routine as well, since it's a weak point, that needs work. Very pleased so far with this resource!

Listening via TV
I'm still using Peppa Pig. It's starting to get on my nerves, though, so I doubt I'll last much longer with this resource, before moving onto the next thing on my progressively more difficult list of things to watch. Occasionally, instead of watching it right through, I'll do a session of pausing and repeating, attempting to catch every word. Otherwise it's a general watch right through, where I do still, even with this baby-ish show, miss words.

(as a side note, outside of my desk routine, I continue to watch more adult TV, such as the news and the odd other French show. I also listen to podcasts).

RFI - Journal en français facile
I decided that this deserved a place in my desk study routine. Although unknown words aren't too frequent, there remains a good sprinkling of them that never really stick well. Thus, now I'm attempting to make them stick by reading the transcripts, pasting them into MS Word, highlighting those words and phrases which are unknown to me, and reviewing them I guess like vocabulary study, or a form of SRS in a way. Sometimes I will shadow some of the audio and I'm intending to transcribe some as well for extra listening/writing practice. I feel this is a good addition to my routine as there remains a decent proportion of unknown news vocabulary that will come in handy when I sit the exam and will add to advancing my vocabulary to that of a more advanced French language user.
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Re: PM's 1000 hrs of French in 254 days to C1 Nov. 2018

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:39 pm

It was 15 months ago I started a thread called “Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)”, which ended up being quite popular and jam packed with excellent advice from an array of backgrounds and experiences. I was aiming to pass C1 or C2 in March 2017 (allowing 3 or 4 months prep.) or at worst November 2017. Didn’t happen.

I’m still trying to get there and still falling short of my ideals rather too frequently. It’s unlikely to happen by November 2018 if I can’t knuckle down day in day out and even if I solidly stick to my routine, it’s far from guaranteed that I’ll achieve the goal, as it’s, imo, clearly beyond my current capabilities.

I’ve re-read many posts in that thread tonight and adjusted my routine tonight to include more reading and watching and rid myself of content that’s too easy. My listening still needs a good deal of time allotted to it, while I simply haven’t read enough full stop.

I’ve made every second hour of study either extensive reading or extensive watching. Every other hour is intensive study of various kinds. At least this way I play to my preferences (intensive materials), but push the extensive activities too. I pissed off the cartoons (finally the advice got through to me), as I need to challenge myself with series not in the same vein as Peppa Pig. I cut out an easier course on my to do course list. I cut ten minutes of vocabulary study from the beginning of each extensive hour of study, therby rendering those hours completely about extensive reading or extensive watching for the full 60 minutes. The ten minutes of vocab study remains at the beginning of each intensive hour of study.

I’m facing some fairly applied pressure at home to get this exam done in November and afterwards bring my family-interests balance back towards the family. I can’t study this much after November, but I continue to not take advantage of my current granted leeway sufficiently.

Here’s my routine, a rotating routine of hour blocks of which the target is three hours per day:

------
By roatation :
------
ONE HOUR
Either :
Extensive reading
(60 min)

Or :
Extensive watching (listening)
(60 min) :
• A series
----------------------------------
ONE HOUR
Vocabulary
(10 min) :
• M Durand’s Wds, Phrses & Sent's
RFI - Journal en français facile
(50 min)
• working with transcripts to acquire new vocabulary
----------------------------------
ONE HOUR
Either : Extensive watching (listening)
------
Or : Extensive reading
----------------------------------
ONE HOUR
Vocabulary
(10 min) :
• M Durand’s Wds, Phrses & Sent's
A course
(50 min) :
• Practise Makes Perfect : Subjunctive
• CLE : Gram Prog du FR (intermediate)
• Ultimate French Verb Rev. and Practise
• CLE : Gram. en dialogues (intermediate)
• Hugo French Advanced
• Ultimate FR Review and Practise
• Colloquial French 2
• CLE : Gram Prog du FR (advanced)
• CLE : Gram. en dialogues (advanced)
• CLE : Gram Prog du FR (perfect.)
• Réussir le DALF C1 et C2
• Production écrite niv. C1/C2
----------------------------------
ONE HOUR
Either : Extensive reading
------
Or : Extensive watching (listening)
----------------------------------
ONE HOUR
Vocabulary
(10 min) :
• M Durand’s Wds, Phrses & Sent's
Intensive Reading
(50 min) :
• Bien-dire
----------------------------------

The possibilty of us moving to another country in six months for a likely duration of one or two years has dramatically increased to a 70% chance (no, I’ve made no mention of this previously here). It will be to an Arabic speaking country. Who knows where I’ll be sitting the French C1/C2 test but I’m going to try to push the relocation back so I can sit the exam in Australia, but I need to be able to have sufficient study time in the lead up to the exam for such a delay to be worthwhile too. I really want to close this (French exam) chapter of my life before opening the next chapter if this relocation comes to be. I know this Arabic relocation thing has really come out of left field, but you know life’s full of surprises, and the best laid plans.... well, I’m just going with it, so we’ll see what eventuates. Arabic could be my next language.
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Re: PM's 1000 hrs of French in 254 days to C1 Nov. 2018

Postby Xenops » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:23 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:The possibilty of us moving to another country in six months for a likely duration of one or two years has dramatically increased to a 70% chance (no, I’ve made no mention of this previously here). It will be to an Arabic speaking country. Who knows where I’ll be sitting the French C1/C2 test but I’m going to try to push the relocation back so I can sit the exam in Australia, but I need to be able to have sufficient study time in the lead up to the exam for such a delay to be worthwhile too. I really want to close this (French exam) chapter of my life before opening the next chapter if this relocation comes to be. I know this Arabic relocation thing has really come out of left field, but you know life’s full of surprises, and the best laid plans.... well, I’m just going with it, so we’ll see what eventuates. Arabic could be my next language.


IMHO, this looks like a solid study plan. :) Though I must confess that I'm very curious as to why an Arabic country is in the probable future? I can see learning Arabic if you're moving to Europe, but moving to an Arabic country is quite a change.
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Re: PM's 1000 hrs of French in 254 days to C1 Nov. 2018

Postby rdearman » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:29 pm

But, Mousie, thou art no thy lane,
In proving foresight may be vain;
The best-laid schemes o' mice an 'men
Gang aft agley,
An'lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!
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Re: PM's 1000 hrs of French in 254 days to C1 Nov. 2018

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:56 pm

Xenops wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:The possibilty of us moving to another country in six months for a likely duration of one or two years has dramatically increased to a 70% chance (no, I’ve made no mention of this previously here). It will be to an Arabic speaking country. Who knows where I’ll be sitting the French C1/C2 test but I’m going to try to push the relocation back so I can sit the exam in Australia, but I need to be able to have sufficient study time in the lead up to the exam for such a delay to be worthwhile too. I really want to close this (French exam) chapter of my life before opening the next chapter if this relocation comes to be. I know this Arabic relocation thing has really come out of left field, but you know life’s full of surprises, and the best laid plans.... well, I’m just going with it, so we’ll see what eventuates. Arabic could be my next language.


IMHO, this looks like a solid study plan. :) Though I must confess that I'm very curious as to why an Arabic country is in the probable future? I can see learning Arabic if you're moving to Europe, but moving to an Arabic country is quite a change.


Thanks for your input Xenops. We are currently in a a negotiating phase of a potential job that matches my wife’s specialised skill mix almost exactly. Due to our future plans involving spending considerable time outside Australia (think Belgium/France or elsewhere), and still battling with the high cost of living here barely moving forward and making such ambitions look a tad fanciful, we decided to look further afield where we know people have done well financially coming from the west. Saudi is the country, and I’ll let it be known should we take that leap.
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