Re: PM’s French Re-entry into the Matrix - Phase 1: 500 Hours Extensive Reading

[Ani]

I love that everyone jumps in to support you in this log. I don't know how you do it Listen well to Cavesa and take good care of yourself. It's easier to see signs and symptoms in others than ourselves sometimes. Just the fact that you gave yourself permission to study languages besides French door a while makes me terribly worried for you

I'm not really going to say anything (oh my gosh how can I make saying nothing into such a long post? ) But I just want to recommend the app Castbot. It's free and it has excellent podcast discovery skills. I typed in "conspiration" And found the podcast "Distorsion" .. maybe it's your thing, maybe not. Looks a little more like Weird NJ (That probably makes no sense to someone from Australia huh...) than a news source, mainstream or alternative. But obviously you can type in anything. Different subject but Varennes is kind of good on the French Revolution. Maybe you'll find some more to listen to on your drives, AFATT will happen, and all your troubles will be behind you.

[garyb]

I agree that there's far more than "polishing" required for going to B2 to C1. By most accounts it's the longest and most difficult jump in CEFR levels and takes longer than zero to B2. Superficially, a C1 speaker's abilities might seem similar to but more polished than a B2 speaker's, but you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg and the difference under the hood that gives these improvements is massive. Not at all wanting to discourage you, just manage expectations. That said though, with your perfectionist learning style you probably have far more solid basics than an average B2 speaker, and that can be half of the battle.

I won't repeat what others have said, but what I've seen of your written French has seemed mostly correct (more so than that of many people who claim much higher levels!) but a bit clunky and overly wordy; more exposure to native materials would probably help with learning more natural and succinct phrasing. I can't say whether C1 examiners actually care about that though, or it's more important to just get your point across; hopefully someone with experience of the exams can give guidance on that if it's your priority. Courses probably help with that too and complement it, but listening and reading are good just for encountering similar things over and over again in different contexts.

[Cavesa]

One thing I've always wanted to ask is why do you need/want to have your French be at a C1/C2 level?

I understand that seems like a logical progression after passing the B2. It's nice accomplishment to have.

But why would it be bad if your French remains at a B2 level?

Most conversations that you'll have with native French speakers even if you were living in French speaking country don't require C levels oral proficiency. Even in your native language, how often do you debate/discuss 'la lutte contre la douleur : doit-on fixer les limites de l'insupportable' to your neighbours? (I found this on a sample paper for the oral section of a C1 paper).

I am not saying that you shouldn't want to improve your French and pass a C1/C1 exam. But there's nothing wrong with focusing on just improving your French when you can and not sitting the DALF. There are plenty of people who speak amazing French who never took the DALF for whatever reason.

Based on anecdotal stories, personal experiences with interacting with nurses in England, there are lots of nurses whose English are still at a B2 level (besides knowing the relevant specific medical vocabulary to do their job). B2 is still a pretty good level where you can still do a lot of things in your target language.

Because he is (unless something has changed in the last few dozen pages of this log) considering moving to a francophone country and doing the job there. And based on my experience, I wholeheartedly agree that B2 is not enough, no matter what the official requirements say. Why is it enough in English despite the country having the opportunity to choose from half the planet with native/second native English? Because the NHS is basically in ruins. It is not the only example, our government is trying to fix problems here by importing ukrainians and letting them work in our healthcare without the language exams AND without any professional exams for years. Like why are we forced to suffer for our final exams, when some "doctors" are allowed to work here and clearly don't have the skills or exams? And some nurses definitely don't know the language enough. It is unfair both towards us and other foreigners, and it is dangerous. But a healthcare in crisis is willing to do a lot of compromise. B2 English in England might be just one of those. When your hospitals are understaffed, it is usually cheaper to endanger the patients than to solve the problems rationally.

It is not the standard. C1 is required in Spain, B2 in Germany (but you are supposed to improve and accepting this level or lower with a temporary interpreter is again just a way to fill the gaps the natives don't suffice for or simply don't want to), I think you don't necessarily have to get a certificate for France. The one "for healthcare" is B2. But based on my experience, B2 simply doesn't suffice in real life, as you simply need the details, you need to understand non standard stuff, you need to make a really good impression to get through the prejudices.

On top of that, PM is simply one of the people wanting to talk about a wide spectrum of subjects and in nuances.

Though I often disagree with some of your non-language related posts, I've seen you write very persuasively and passionately about your beliefs on certain subjects. You should try to do that in French too.

Some of us simply don't want to stay functionally mute in some situations. And it is also a question of equality. If you want to be taken for more than just a gastarbeiter, if you want normal relationships with people, whether professional or personal, you need to speak like them. Not speaking well enough os frustrating as the speaker constantly appears to be much less intelligent. In many settings, people will not take it this way (for example tourism), but I don't think healthcare, with all the prejudice towards foreigners, is one of them.

A note: Sallard doesn't get slammed because of his opinions but because of his arrogance, the strawmen use, and general disrespect for other people that is usually not based on any real superiority in relevant experience (and even if it was, some kinds of behaviour are simply not the standard in this community). Vocabulary size is extremely relevant, when you want to work in a foreign language. And he usually absolutely misses the point:yes, starting with small important vocabulary is a good strategy and can get you to some level. But in the end, you simply need to learn much more. And discouraging people from doing this up to C1 is simply wrong. You don't need or want to get too flowery with tons of unnecessary words, but you need a large vocabulary to pick just the right and efficient ones.

A non quoted sign of high proficiency in French in healthcare nhas othing to do with your grammar and pronunciation. It is about comprehension of people with vocal problems, speech impediments, dyspnea, heavy dialect (some of the older people), bad French (a part of the immigrants), and so on. Based on what I've observed, you can be a completely competent nurse with your native language (in the most obvious case that I remember: Spanish) clearly showing in every sentence. But you have to understand your patients and be clearly competent and precise in your work.

I agree that there's far more than "polishing" required for going to B2 to C1. By most accounts it's the longest and most difficult jump in CEFR levels and takes longer than zero to B2. Superficially, a C1 speaker's abilities might seem similar to but more polished than a B2 speaker's, but you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg and the difference under the hood that gives these improvements is massive. Not at all wanting to discourage you, just manage expectations. That said though, with your perfectionist learning style you probably have far more solid basics than an average B2 speaker, and that can be half of the battle.

I won't repeat what others have said, but what I've seen of your written French has seemed mostly correct (more so than that of many people who claim much higher levels!) but a bit clunky and overly wordy; more exposure to native materials would probably help with learning more natural and succinct phrasing. I can't say whether C1 examiners actually care about that though, or it's more important to just get your point across; hopefully someone with experience of the exams can give guidance on that if it's your priority. Courses probably help with that too and complement it, but listening and reading are good just for encountering similar things over and over again in different contexts.

I totally agree. I guess PM may be much closer to C1 in some areas than he thinks.

Nope, it doesn't suffice to get the point across in the DALF exams. It definitely doesn't. It is much more about precision and about the proper balance of how close to the original sources you have to stick to, in order not to break the required genre and subject, and how far you have to go from the original text at the same time, to not be accused of copying it.

Sure courses can help with this to some extent and I've seen a few more published in the recent years. And tons of reading. High quality websites might even help more than than books in some ways, not liking book reading might be no problem in the end.



I should definitely learn to be more brief

[Carmody]

Cavesa

I am always staggered by reading your long, insightful, and in depth posts in a language that is not your native language and in that same language you designate as being at a C1 level. I don't know how you do it, but you are one astute dude. Thank you.

[reineke]

"The Nursing and Midwifery Council is the professional regulatory body for nurses and midwives in the UK. Our role is to protect patients and the public through efficient and effective regulation.

We currently accept two language tests as evidence of your ability to communicate effectively in English: the International English Language Test System (IELTS) and the Occupational English Test (OET).

The IELTS and the OET are used across the world. They are often chosen to test the language competency of healthcare professionals in the UK.

International English Language Test System (IELTS)
If you have completed an IELTS Academic examination you must provide an IELTS certificate that confirms:

at least 7.0 in the listening and reading sections
at least 7.0 in the writing and speaking sections, and
at least 7.0 overall."
https://www.nmc.org.uk/registration/joi ... ted-tests/

Canada
Listening 7.5
Overall 7.0
https://www.crnbc.ca/Registration/RNApp ... ments.aspx

Australia: 7.0

Ireland
L/R 6.5
Overall 7.0

"our research shows that a C1 minimum threshold would fall between the 6.5 and 7 bands on the IELTS scale."
ielts.org

[PeterMollenburg]

I love that everyone jumps in to support you in this log. I don't know how you do it

I honestly don't know either. smallwhite has menitoned before that I get a lot of support too. After my rant, and yes iguanamon, you're indeed right:

Wow, PM, when you rant, you don't fool around!

. I really honestly expected at least some negative backlash from my rant. I'm astounded at the support I receive on this forum from a bunch of awesome people. I'd also like to take the time to thank those who were considerate enough to, despite wanting to tell me (after this latest rant) to shut the hell up or something similar, they held back, as I'm certain I don't stir up positive responses for all. Still I am indeed extremely grateful for the support I recieve on this forum, and this time round is clearly an excellent example of that. Thank you so much. Some individual responses follow.....

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21 Mar 2018

1. Have you tried listening to mock C1 audio? I have a C2 one and I think it's within your ability.

22 Mar 2018

Non, je n'ai pas encore essayer d'écouter ce type d'audio. Si tu as envie de le faire, envoie-le-moi, je veux dire ce que tu m'as mentionné. Je voudrais tenter ma chance.

22 Mar 2018

1. mock audio
http://www.ciep.fr/en/dalf/sample-papers

Thank you kindly for little nudge smallwhite. I see you were doing a good deal of Turkish lately during the 6WC. I hope you're found it a nice adventure. Well done on taking out the title!
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Wow, PM, when you rant, you don't fool around! Back a few years ago, when you would have angst about flashcards, I was encouraging you to drop them and read and listen more, which you weren't going to do. You just don't like reading and that's probably one of the most important methods learners who live far from a TL country use to gain more vocabulary and intuit grammar. You don't really like television,

(above emphasis with colour, size and bolding mine).
I have to stop you there. I need to clarify something that has grown bigger than it should have, become some kind of Chinese whisper gone wrong (although any Chinese whisper goes wrong). Once upon a time I didn't like reading, I hated it, in fact. I only cared about sport. That was pre 20 years old. However, since then... I have enjoyed reading for a couple of decades. I discoverd it around 20 y.o. give or take a year or so. It does not come naturally to me. I read slowly, but I must say I absolutely do enjoy reading. I've never delved into classic litterature or even well known best-sellers, but I absolutely do enjoy reading.

Television is a little the other way around. I always enjoyed it when I was younger, and it's only been in recent years that I've beomce rather annoyed at many programs on television. Still, I do find various things that I do enjoy, but I constantly see through the bullshit, in that I feel I can see social engineering taking place before my eyes, and that's what I really have trouble with. TV is cultural manipulation in my opinion, and 'crowd' control, a way to manage the masses. Netflix is great for us language learners in some ways but I do feel it's taking an emerging global culture (on the back of the culture(s) of the United States predominantly and spreading it to the world). Don't tell me they have plenty of foreign shows. American TV is far more influential than anything else, and as English is so widespread now, the cultural exchange occurs mainly in one direction. I am certain mountains of Europeans would watch Netflix in the original English. I highly doubt there'd be anywhere near as many Americans, British, Australians, Canadians, Kiwis, Irish, Scottish watching shows on Netflix in their original (foreign) languages. Television is influential. Period. Watch the culture change people, watch it become the same. Yes yes, it's me the know-it-all again.

who can blame you! It hasn't been called a "vast wasteland" for nothing! Still, for me and others- whether I like it or not, it is very useful. So, there's another good learning resource that I and others have used effectively that isn't helpful for you. Had you been living in France or a French-speaking country, I believe that the gaps you have would've been filled in more quickly and you would have advanced more quickly learning from people instead of people's media.

I agree.

Ok, so you haven't utilized what many of us use to help us learn. What you have done (while living in Australia), to me, with years of having watched your progress, is amazing. You have reached B2 in French despite not liking reading and despite not watching much of television series or devouring podcasts. I would venture that your accomplishments are greater than mine in this regard. You have proven that there is more than one way to learn a language and that determination and grit are both very important elements to have. I couldn't learn a language like you have done if I didn't like reading and listening to native materials. It is such an important part of what I do. That makes you, in many ways, a better learner than I am. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't recommend your learning style to most beginners, but for someone in a similar situation to you... they could do well to follow your advice. Even those of us who do like making native materials an important part of our learning could do well to follow some of your example- ok, I ain't doing 20 courses, but still there's a lot of value to getting a great grasp on pronunciation and the basics.

Well this isn't entirely true either. Fom zero to B1. There was practically no native material, if I recollect correctly. B1 to B2, some. And my 'some' isn't an entirely small amount. During the last Super Challenge I finished around 20th with 208 films and 31 books. I've been watching the news actually since before B1. Reading was certainly a later addition and often (even after B2) I've just not taken to it that much. Okay, I can take some credit for getting a long way with courses only for the most part, but there was a good portion of native content (and continues to be) thrown in the mix.

Like most rants, there's a lot of truth in what you say, but there's also "missing the forest for the trees". We often can't see what we've done right for focusing on what we perceive to be our shortcomings. Personally, based on my observations over the years of you and others, I believe you are your own worst critic. You didn't think you passed B2 and you did. You'll pass C1, but yes... you'll have to work on your weaknesses. The good news is that those weaknesses will be made apparent with practice exams and perhaps working with a tutor again which you said was helpful and enjoyable the last time. You'll find your way to resolve them. Don't get too discouraged. You've done well. You are just as good a learner as, or maybe even a better learner than, any of us here. Yeah, you probably spent too much time on courses, but you just learn differently... and that's ok. Stop comparing yourself to everyone else here. We're different. We're not you. Hang in there, PM, and keep up the good work. You'll get there.

I think this is good advice. And yes I can take some credit for being hard working, thank you iguanamon. I think when it comes down it my rant was born out of frustration. It would've been nice is 600 hours was 600 hours (or even a thousand), that is, even for me, personally with my approach too, if 600-1000 hrs to C2 turned out to be valid. I could've learned quite a few more languages since if that was the case. Still, it's not going to do me any good hanging on to those thoughts. I may as well get on with it.

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PeterMollenburg
I think I would be completely stupid to ignore the elephant in the room... i.e. I could seriously be kinda stupid. Or at least stupid when it comes to learning languages. Perhaps I’ll be a lot smarter with the ensuing languages (if I ever get there), or I could just be stupid all round, plain and simple. Still, stupid or not, I will keep pursuing what I am trying to obtain. Oh, and on the hours thing, I remember Cavesa saying that reaching C1/C2 requires around 2 super challenges. Ummm... that’s a lot of hours in itself. So the hours are utter bullshit.

Peter, thank you for sharing your thoughts....So say I...I just wish there were some way I could focus on the work and control the constant mind babbling that I have going on that tells me I am not smart enough. It is not easy.

You do a really decent job Carmody. In some ways you remind me of me. Keep going, you will get there! (and you already are - 'getting there'). As for the self-loathing. Well for me, I was honestly, sincerely just being very factural. I don't really ever put myself down mentally or verbally (out loud), as it's not very constructive at all and likely would lead to some kind of negative mental state (i.e. facilitate a shift towards a depressive state). That wouldn't help anyone. Furthermore I do see, in some cases, that self loathing can be a form of self obsession in the form of 'oh poor me, look at me, it's so hard'. I'm not suggesting that you nor I do this at all, just illustrating that I really see it as completely counter-productive. Self-doubt is a little different and I think comes down to lack of experience. Both you and I need to keep on putting one foot in front of the other and some day we'll have much more confidence in ourselves and our ability to reach Level XYZ in Language A/B/C. So in suggesting I might be a little stupid or down on the old IQ points I meant that, literally, and not in a self attacking manner. And there could be some truth in that. Someone with a high IQ may know inherently that it's just ridiculolus to spend so much time doing so many courses and that there's a much more efficient way to reach your goals. Perhaps smallwhite is a good example of this. I, on the other hand, cling to completing things, pertfecting things (well at least accent), and don't really get it - that is how much is really involved in reaching that high level. Perhaps if I could have a conversation with my French learning self at A1 level, I'd perhaps say, you've no idea how much is ahead of you, yes get good at your accent, but boy you have a long road ahead of you, so get on with it Sunny Jim Oh, and I do think someone with a low IQ can learn a language (how low I don't know), and even become a polyglot. I'm not suggesting that is anyone, not even me today

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Now, why did I burn out? I doubt it was perfectionism, as I really have not stuck to my multiple routines for more than a week at a time I think. Burn out was due to other stupid things as discussed earlier, like not sleeping properly. And my definition of language learning burn out does not fit all the emotional, depressive, complete exhaustion description that I think Ogrim provided. In actual fact, I don’t think I exhausted myself via language study barely at all, I think it was everything else. Late nights, early mornings, looking after kids, working, next to no days off (of either working or looking after kids). I love my kids, I don’t love my work (nor completely hate it either), these things are not the problem. My extremes are.

Well, that actually sounds like that burn out described by psychologists and psychiatrists, I think you shouldn't dismiss the option lightly, if I may dare to suggest. Don't forget people are not textbook copies, so you definitely don't need to have all the symptomes, especially at the earlier phases, and the earlier you find out, the better is your prognosis.

The first phase of burn out is exactly perfectionism, combined with long hours, and not following the well known health recommendations, such as getting enough sleep, no time just for yourself, no days off. Loving one's job (and I am 100% convinced that being an active and caring parent is more than equal to a full job and can be just as exhausting, so you basically have two jobs. or three, as you've got a new one recently. and all of them are about caring for others), that is actually either the prodrome, cause, or the first stage, depending on what sources you are reading. The repetitiveness of the work adds to it. And as you are a nurse, if I remember correctly, you are a part of the most endangered population.

As I wrote in that thread, I think most of us here are not that likely to experience the true burn out caused by language learning (it is usually mostly the "I am bored and not progressing and feel like giving up" situation). I think most people experiencing burn out here have "caught it" elsewhere, and it just secondarily spreads to the language learning. It is like that for me and other too, from what I've been able to observe.

Basically, the first phase of the burn out is what our society admires and what we tend to support each other in doing and what we tend to take for the standard we must stick to. Whether it is doing our jobs too perfectly and at the expense of our relax and well being, or caring about our loved ones well enough to be satisfied about it.

Interesting insights there Cavesa. Your words do make me think that I indeed need to be mindful of self. Thank you for sharing.

Now, series. Still not that comprehensible, really. Probably because I either lack patience, time, or focus or even all three. Books, still not a breeze. Ah-ha, that’s it! Maybe? I spent waaaaaaaaay too long on courses, like everyone was telling me. Oh, btw, I’ve started another job a few days back (one i’ve done casually before, but now on a short term contract). I drive around (as a nurse), visiting patients in their homes... yeah well, and doing pretty straight forward nursing stuff. Good thing is, i’ve got time to listen to French in the car between house calls. Two days ago I did nearly a total of 2.5 hours. Yesterday 1.5 hrs. But, hey, you know me, not listening to advanced stuff, just Glossika (yet another course). Mind you it’s great for speech production (shadowing, whatever you want to call it), but it’s no advanced podcast. I’m telling you now, I am not a C1 nor a C2, and the next dickhead that says you can reach German C2 with 600 to 750 hours study, or French C2 in 600 hours... well I won’t do anything really, but probably verbally abuse them (because it makes me feel so good, and is so healthy) cowardly behind thousands of kilometres of internet signal and my stupid iPhone that’s recording everything I say and do.

...didn't like reading and listening to native materials. It is such an important part of what I do. That makes you, in many ways, a better learner than I am. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't recommend your learning style to most beginners, but for someone in a similar situation to you... they could do well to follow your advice. Even those of us who do like making native materials an important part of our learning could do well to follow some of your example- ok, I ain't doing 20 courses, but still there's a lot of value to getting a great grasp on pronunciation and the basics....

I copied just a part of this awesome post by iguanamon. And I'd like to add my two cents to it:

Yes, it is admirable how well you are doing despite your deslike towards the media most of us use with success. However, I don't think you have considered all the substitution options.

You hate watching motion pictures on screens. I actually admire this, as I a bit too much of a tvseries addict. But your podcasts are not enough, as you say. So, how about radio? I usually don't recommend it much and I do mind the way most teachers recommend it to any learner despite the specific difficulties and very common result being discouragement. But you obviously like a challenge. In my DALF C2, I had a radio discussion between 5 or 6 people, presenting the outcomes of an ecology summit. It was easy for me thanks to the tv series, but there is no reason not to start with stuff like that. Radio with spoken word, challenging subjects of discussion, and varying speakers who do much more than just monologues. That could serve and keep your interest. No learner podcasts (even if they are labeled B2 or C1). A radio channel for educated and clever natives, that just forces you to keep up.

You dislike books and it looks like even non fiction is a torture for you. My following suggestions are based on my observation of my boyfriend. He doesn't read books (he's borrowed one of two and been reading them for two years and a half now, since the beginning of our relationship ). But that doesn't mean he doesn't read at all. The internet is full of interesting content. He has favourite facebook pages about history, he reads some pages about popular science, and so on. Perhaps stuff like that could serve you too. It wouldn't be the book form, but it would still need to be challenging and come in great amounts. But that should be no problem, given the tons of content in French.

Again, Chinese whispers at play here. I don't mind television, I do find movies I enjoy from time to time and series too. LIke anyone I have my preferences, but as mentioned above in response to iguanamon, it's not true that I simply despise television. A few series that I have enjoyed for example are Sex and the City, Seinfeld, Game of Thrones, Outlander. And there's plenty of movies I really enjoy (The Matrix being my all time favourite).

As for reading, it's very rare indeed that I read fiction. Non-fiction has been my go-to for many years. I do own some fiction books and I'm reading one now (although haven't picked it up for a few weeks now, but I do enjoy it) that iguanamon recommended to me a while back called Globalia. I am not into crime shows much (but will watch them if they turn up on Netflix or another source in French). And you know I do have an interest in reading some classic French litterature now, especially Victor Hugo, but time is a major problem, and since I read pretty slow compared to most... well it's likely a while off. Furthermore, I do have quite a few books (digital and paper) in French that I own and am yet to read. Plenty of conspiracies - which I feel are more factual (and not conspiracies at all), but denied by offical sources, so regarded as such, despite in some cases undeniable evidence.

About the coursebooks, I didn't find the list of your currently used ones now, so perhaps you already know them all. But as you like this way of studying and have achieved a lot with it (and I agree with Iguanamon we should all take you as a great example here), why fight it. Just get the C1 books. There is a lot of prejudices about such stuff (and people believing courses are useless from B1 up, let alone at the C levels, just because they cannot cover everything you need. Well, paracetamol usually doesn't solve the cause of a problem, but I definitely wouldn't call it useless, it is the same logic).
So, perhaps diving into several C1 courses could help you move forward. There are the Progressive books, there is a new and fresh Édito C1, there is the older Alter Ego C1, there are books by CLE focused on the individual skills, there are the exam preparation books, some of which are more like general courses actually, and I am sure this is not a complete list. As your most efficient strategy has been just sitting down and doing what most people are too lazy to do, and "simply" get through several courses per level, why don't you do it again?

Yes, I do agree with this (use the coursebooks if that's what I enjoy and works). Lately I have a four or five (depending on my mood) block rotational study plan and courses take up two of those blocks. Mind you, i'm not applying myself to my study plan very well lately and actually doing anything much with courses at all, but I had come to a similar conclusion (why fight it). I own plenty of decent courses including all the Progressif/-ive series of Vocab and Grammar

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French (summary) in 2017

Total hours: 682hrs 56min

Breakdown
French television: 167hrs 22min
Courses: 166hrs 57min
Podcasts: 103hrs 19min
Extensive reading: 65hrs 51min
Audio courses: 63hrs 7min
Intensive reading: 40hrs 41min
Flashcards: 34hrs 52min
Vocabulary study in isolation: 21hrs 57min
Speaking: 13hrs 44min
Writing in isolation: 4hrs 36min
Audio books: 2hrs 21min

WOW!!!

You're amazing! This is a great score!
Thanks for being a constant source of inspiration to me.
I am very impressed. Above all, I admire those 167 hours of courses, something I need to push myself harder at. And 40h41min of intensive reading are beyond my imagination!

It’s always nice to have one’s efforts validated...Happy 2018 everyone! Now, I’m really getting serious...

Now, series. Still not that comprehensible, really. Probably because I either lack patience, time, or focus or even all three. Books, still not a breeze. Ah-ha, that’s it! Maybe? I spent waaaaaaaaay too long on courses, like everyone was telling me...Two days ago I did nearly a total of 2.5 hours. Yesterday 1.5 hrs. But, hey, you know me, not listening to advanced stuff, just Glossika (yet another course). Mind you it’s great for speech production (shadowing, whatever you want to call it), but it’s no advanced podcast. I’m telling you now, I am not a C1 nor a C2, and the next dickhead that says you can reach German C2 with 600 to 750 hours study, or French C2 in 600 hours...

...didn't like reading and listening to native materials. It is such an important part of what I do....

I copied just a part of this awesome post by iguanamon. And I'd like to add my two cents to it:

Yes, it is admirable how well you are doing despite your deslike towards the media most of us use with success. However, I don't think you have considered all the substitution options.

You hate watching motion pictures on screens. I actually admire this, as I a bit too much of a tv series addict. As your most efficient strategy has been just sitting down and doing what most people are too lazy to do, and "simply" get through several courses per level, why don't you do it again?

I think I would be completely stupid to ignore the elephant in the room... i.e. I could seriously be kinda stupid. Or at least stupid when it comes to learning languages. Perhaps I’ll be a lot smarter with the ensuing languages (if I ever get there), or I could just be stupid all round, plain and simple. Still, stupid or not, I will keep pursuing what I am trying to obtain.

I think the point here was my numbers? Yes I have been watching and reading a good amount as mentioned above.

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I empathise with you so much. I can definitely relate. I too have lofty goals for myself but I don't put in the required time or effort in order to have a serious/realistic chance of achieving them.

Yes! and this is probably the source of most of my frustrations lately. To get to C1 takes some work, yet I haven't been doing what I set out to do! Admittedly, life has been busy, but I do self-sabotage as well. Still, I do involve myself with French quite well on a reguarly basis, but the hard work part (like mock exams, exam prep books, regular reading etc) it's just not happening (i'm not making it happen) as I set out to do so - very regularly, day in day out. And that I believe is the source of my frustration, and I think you Sarafina have understood this extremely well, so I believe you when you say you empathise with me.

One thing I've always wanted to ask is why do you need/want to have your French be at a C1/C2 level?

I understand that seems like a logical progression after passing the B2. It's nice accomplishment to have.

But why would it be bad if your French remains at a B2 level?

Most conversations that you'll have with native French speakers even if you were living in French speaking country don't require C levels oral proficiency. Even in your native language, how often do you debate/discuss 'la lutte contre la douleur : doit-on fixer les limites de l'insupportable' to your neighbours? (I found this on a sample paper for the oral section of a C1 paper).

I am not saying that you shouldn't want to improve your French and pass a C1/C1 exam. But there's nothing wrong with focusing on just improving your French when you can and not sitting the DALF. There are plenty of people who speak amazing French who never took the DALF for whatever reason.

Based on anecdotal stories, personal experiences with interacting with nurses in England, there are lots of nurses whose English are still at a B2 level (besides knowing the relevant specific medical vocabulary to do their job). B2 is still a pretty good level where you can still do a lot of things in your target language.

I love reading and watching movies and TV series but I still have to psych myself up to watch it in French and there are days that I avoid doing anything in French. So I can imagine how much more tedious it must be for you. When I'm too tired to read a book, I find reading an article to be quite helpful and it's challenging enough that I learn something new but short enough that I don't get bored. I am sure that there are French websites that share a similar outlook on topics like technology, information, politics as you.

If you are still set on doing a C1 exam, you should do a mock C1 exam with a tutor to see exactly close or far you are. The results can be pleasant surprise or wake up call.

B2 is enough for nursing in European countries. Cavesa has spoken of C1 for some countries but I believe that is for doctors, and of course she also spoke about having a higher level (than B2) for interacting with patients, which is another consideration. I even came across an agency around 6 months ago that was prepared to take on nurses in Flanders with only A2 level Dutch in aged care. Obviously very desperate, and I'm not sure the same rules would apply to people having studied outside the EU. The rules are complicated and I don't need to elaborate on my research and findings to answer your question. Why do I want to go beyond B2?

Well, in actual fact I'm content with B2 for nursing. It's not nursing that drives me to want to go further with French beyond B2. However I do agree with Cavesa's points around having a higher level (C1/C2) being much better for patient interaction, but that's not the main reason I want to reach such a level. The main reason is that I just want to do it as a personal achievement, and once I do so, then I will permit myself to study other languages.

Some years back now, after struggling with progress while learning a few languagse simultaneously, I decided to focus on one. As I ventured along the long and winding road of French I said that I wouldn't introduce another language until reaching the C-levels. That piece of paper buys me the freedom/right/permission to learn other languages and will give me the senese of accomplishment that 'officially' I have gone to a pretty bloody high level in French. I guess that's as best I can explain it. I tried to cheat recently when it seems my burn out/frustration reached a high/low point.

A mock exam is indeed a good suggestion btw and something I have read about others having done.

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...why fight it. Just get the C1 books. There is a lot of prejudices about such stuff (and people believing courses are useless from B1 up, let alone at the C levels, just because they cannot cover everything you need. Well, paracetamol usually doesn't solve the cause of a problem, but I definitely wouldn't call it useless, it is the same logic). ...

Great post by Cavesa. Yes, it goes against my normal advice but this is what you are very good at doing. Fortunately for you, French is a big language with lots of resources and even high level courses to help you. I can't believe that after all these years I'm actually recommending that you do more courses, but I think this is better for you than trying to do or like something that you don't want to do or don't like to do.

He's been missing here lately, and he hardly ever reads or comments in logs anyway, but have a look at some of s_allard's posts. He sometimes gets slammed by people who think he means that a learner only needs a very small amount of vocabulary to be proficient. His actual opinion about vocabulary is about mastery of basic vocabulary. I found these quotes to be quite illustrative. Here he's talking about some of the youtube polyglots' videos:

...What is so impressive in these interviews is overall proficiency: excellent pronunciation, fluency, impeccable grammar and good word choices. But I return to my main contention: vocabulary size is basically irrelevant, it is the ability to use words that is important. source
...A sign of a very high level of proficiency in French is precisely this ability to use these common words in sophisticated French constructions such as faire tenir, faire savoir, faire faire, se laisser faire, s'en faire, s'y faire, etc. Another sign of a high proficiency user is the presence of the pronouns en and y. Plus, of course, advanced use of pronominal verbs, not of the run-of- the-mill type called reflexive verbs, but in the form of the pseudo-passive or in impersonal constructions. And I hardly need to mention the various uses of the subjunctive mood.
All of these indicators of mastery of French have nothing to do with large sets of word families. Quite the contrary we are looking at a very tiny number of word families. This is what I call depth. Breadth is of course necessary for terminology but depth is the key to proficiency. (emphasis mine) source

B2: Can understand the main ideas of complex text on both concrete and abstract topics, including technical discussions in their field of specialization.
Can interact with a degree of fluency and spontaneity that makes regular interaction with native speakers quite possible without strain for either party.
Can produce clear, detailed text on a wide range of subjects and explain a viewpoint on a topical issue giving the advantages and disadvantages of various options.
C1: Can understand a wide range of demanding, longer clauses, and recognize implicit meaning.
Can express ideas fluently and spontaneously without much obvious searching for expressions.
Can use language flexibly and effectively for social, academic and professional purposes.
Can produce clear, well-structured, detailed text on complex subjects, showing controlled use of organizational patterns, connectors and cohesive devices.

You have passed B2. C1 is about polishing those B2 skills. That means work and practice- polishing what you have already. So, you may be a lot closer to C1 than you think. The practice books and exams are out there for a reason. Though I often disagree with some of your non-language related posts, I've seen you write very persuasively and passionately about your beliefs on certain subjects. You should try to do that in French too. You'll have to speak/write about some topic in the exam. Get some writing practice. Perhaps, you might think about writing your log here in French or finding a French-language conspiracy theory/home-schooling/nutrition forum and posting there too. Bòn chans !

True, indeed I could be lot closer to C1 than I think. I need to do those practise exams, listen to that audio smallwhite provided, get into my routine and start motoring along. I still have my doubts, but only working on what's needed is going to iron out those doubts. I have taken your (s_allard's) points on board, thanks for all your help again iguanamon

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You have passed B2. C1 is about polishing those B2 skills. That means work and practice- polishing what you have already. So, you may be a lot closer to C1 than you think. The practice books and exams are out there for a reason. Though I often disagree with some of your non-language related posts, I've seen you write very persuasively and passionately about your beliefs on certain subjects. You should try to do that in French too. You'll have to speak/write about some topic in the exam. Get some writing practice. Perhaps, you might think about writing your log here in French or finding a French-language conspiracy theory/home-schooling/nutrition forum and posting there too. Bòn chans !

Writing practice is a good idea - I second that.

I think I've read your (I'm talking to Peter here) kids are young, so they probably haven't been in an AP class yet. I don't know if you have. Are you American? IB I think is the same thing, only with international certification.

In my AP Lang class, we had to write essays in 40 minutes. There were three types. What I learned was that as long as you can write well, anything goes. Try formulating an AP prompt using one of your favorite subjects and write an essay using the timer and with the guidelines specified by teachers of the class. Or use old prompts - they're available from the College Board website.

What this will teach you I think is the constructions that are used in essays. Try to observe what kids used to write theirs if you don't know what kind of language is necessary. We (or you) learn those in class by exposure, and if you look up sample responses to prompts, you'll see what past AP students have said that either got them good marks or failed them. Even better, try to find French kids' IB essays and see what they use there.

I'm Australian. AP doesn't mean anything to me, but I do get the point your making about practise writing under certain constraints. Very good idea, another one I have read about but not actually put into action. I need to

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I have no advice to offer, PM--I just wanted to say that I feel ya. 2018 has been nothing but frustrations for me so far, and I'm eagerly waiting for things to improve.

Not advice, just some ideas: have you considered Central America? I don't know what their stance is on vaccines or whatnot, but I've heard only good things about Costa Rica.

I hope 2018 improves soon for us both! My wife and I visited Costa Rica some ten years ago now and we certainly enjoyed it and like what we saw. It would be a beautiful place to live I think. Still, i'm not learning Spanish currently and the objective is to live in a francophone country, preferably on European soil. That said my wife and I have pondered Costa Rica from time to time (wishful thinking more than anything), to the extent I did look up their vaccination stance and was disappointed by what I found. I'll say no more...
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"She says the jungle... it just came alive and took him."

I see a material difference between B2 and C1 that no amount of polishing can fix (unless, of course, "polishing" is a euphemism for heavy lifting). After 5000 hours of French, PM has mastered "the core". Vocabulary dimensions include depth, breadth, and speed of processing (retrieval, automatization). In order to get good at processing spoken language you need to ...process spoken language.

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I love that everyone jumps in to support you in this log. I don't know how you do it Listen well to Cavesa and take good care of yourself. It's easier to see signs and symptoms in others than ourselves sometimes. Just the fact that you gave yourself permission to study languages besides French door a while makes me terribly worried for you

Thank you Ani for your kind words. Yes, that was even shocking for me. Equally shocking (believe it or not) was my sudden return to French only.... who would've thought....

I'm not really going to say anything (oh my gosh how can I make saying nothing into such a long post? ) But I just want to recommend the app Castbot. It's free and it has excellent podcast discovery skills. I typed in "conspiration" And found the podcast "Distorsion" .. maybe it's your thing, maybe not. Looks a little more like Weird NJ (That probably makes no sense to someone from Australia huh...) than a news source, mainstream or alternative. But obviously you can type in anything. Different subject but Varennes is kind of good on the French Revolution. Maybe you'll find some more to listen to on your drives, AFATT will happen, and all your troubles will be behind you.

I have just downloaded the app Castbox - The Podcast App, which is I think what you meant. I will dig around and see what's on offer, thanks for the suggestion!

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I agree that there's far more than "polishing" required for going to B2 to C1. By most accounts it's the longest and most difficult jump in CEFR levels and takes longer than zero to B2. Superficially, a C1 speaker's abilities might seem similar to but more polished than a B2 speaker's, but you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg and the difference under the hood that gives these improvements is massive. Not at all wanting to discourage you, just manage expectations. That said though, with your perfectionist learning style you probably have far more solid basics than an average B2 speaker, and that can be half of the battle.

I won't repeat what others have said, but what I've seen of your written French has seemed mostly correct (more so than that of many people who claim much higher levels!) but a bit clunky and overly wordy; more exposure to native materials would probably help with learning more natural and succinct phrasing. I can't say whether C1 examiners actually care about that though, or it's more important to just get your point across; hopefully someone with experience of the exams can give guidance on that if it's your priority. Courses probably help with that too and complement it, but listening and reading are good just for encountering similar things over and over again in different contexts.

Excellent post! Thanks garyb. I appreciate the honesty btw, and it certainly doesn't discourage me either.

--------------------------------------------------

One thing I've always wanted to ask is why do you need/want to have your French be at a C1/C2 level?

I understand that seems like a logical progression after passing the B2. It's nice accomplishment to have.

But why would it be bad if your French remains at a B2 level?

Most conversations that you'll have with native French speakers even if you were living in French speaking country don't require C levels oral proficiency. Even in your native language, how often do you debate/discuss 'la lutte contre la douleur : doit-on fixer les limites de l'insupportable' to your neighbours? (I found this on a sample paper for the oral section of a C1 paper).

I am not saying that you shouldn't want to improve your French and pass a C1/C1 exam. But there's nothing wrong with focusing on just improving your French when you can and not sitting the DALF. There are plenty of people who speak amazing French who never took the DALF for whatever reason.

Based on anecdotal stories, personal experiences with interacting with nurses in England, there are lots of nurses whose English are still at a B2 level (besides knowing the relevant specific medical vocabulary to do their job). B2 is still a pretty good level where you can still do a lot of things in your target language.

Because he is (unless something has changed in the last few dozen pages of this log) considering moving to a francophone country and doing the job there. And based on my experience, I wholeheartedly agree that B2 is not enough, no matter what the official requirements say. Why is it enough in English despite the country having the opportunity to choose from half the planet with native/second native English? Because the NHS is basically in ruins. It is not the only example, our government is trying to fix problems here by importing ukrainians and letting them work in our healthcare without the language exams AND without any professional exams for years. Like why are we forced to suffer for our final exams, when some "doctors" are allowed to work here and clearly don't have the skills or exams? And some nurses definitely don't know the language enough. It is unfair both towards us and other foreigners, and it is dangerous. But a healthcare in crisis is willing to do a lot of compromise. B2 English in England might be just one of those. When your hospitals are understaffed, it is usually cheaper to endanger the patients than to solve the problems rationally.

It is not the standard. C1 is required in Spain, B2 in Germany (but you are supposed to improve and accepting this level or lower with a temporary interpreter is again just a way to fill the gaps the natives don't suffice for or simply don't want to), I think you don't necessarily have to get a certificate for France. The one "for healthcare" is B2. But based on my experience, B2 simply doesn't suffice in real life, as you simply need the details, you need to understand non standard stuff, you need to make a really good impression to get through the prejudices.

On top of that, PM is simply one of the people wanting to talk about a wide spectrum of subjects and in nuances.

Though I often disagree with some of your non-language related posts, I've seen you write very persuasively and passionately about your beliefs on certain subjects. You should try to do that in French too.

Some of us simply don't want to stay functionally mute in some situations. And it is also a question of equality. If you want to be taken for more than just a gastarbeiter, if you want normal relationships with people, whether professional or personal, you need to speak like them. Not speaking well enough os frustrating as the speaker constantly appears to be much less intelligent. In many settings, people will not take it this way (for example tourism), but I don't think healthcare, with all the prejudice towards foreigners, is one of them.

A note: Sallard doesn't get slammed because of his opinions but because of his arrogance, the strawmen use, and general disrespect for other people that is usually not based on any real superiority in relevant experience (and even if it was, some kinds of behaviour are simply not the standard in this community). Vocabulary size is extremely relevant, when you want to work in a foreign language. And he usually absolutely misses the point:yes, starting with small important vocabulary is a good strategy and can get you to some level. But in the end, you simply need to learn much more. And discouraging people from doing this up to C1 is simply wrong. You don't need or want to get too flowery with tons of unnecessary words, but you need a large vocabulary to pick just the right and efficient ones.

A non quoted sign of high proficiency in French in healthcare nhas othing to do with your grammar and pronunciation. It is about comprehension of people with vocal problems, speech impediments, dyspnea, heavy dialect (some of the older people), bad French (a part of the immigrants), and so on. Based on what I've observed, you can be a completely competent nurse with your native language (in the most obvious case that I remember: Spanish) clearly showing in every sentence. But you have to understand your patients and be clearly competent and precise in your work.

I agree that there's far more than "polishing" required for going to B2 to C1. By most accounts it's the longest and most difficult jump in CEFR levels and takes longer than zero to B2. Superficially, a C1 speaker's abilities might seem similar to but more polished than a B2 speaker's, but you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg and the difference under the hood that gives these improvements is massive. Not at all wanting to discourage you, just manage expectations. That said though, with your perfectionist learning style you probably have far more solid basics than an average B2 speaker, and that can be half of the battle.

I won't repeat what others have said, but what I've seen of your written French has seemed mostly correct (more so than that of many people who claim much higher levels!) but a bit clunky and overly wordy; more exposure to native materials would probably help with learning more natural and succinct phrasing. I can't say whether C1 examiners actually care about that though, or it's more important to just get your point across; hopefully someone with experience of the exams can give guidance on that if it's your priority. Courses probably help with that too and complement it, but listening and reading are good just for encountering similar things over and over again in different contexts.

I totally agree. I guess PM may be much closer to C1 in some areas than he thinks.

Nope, it doesn't suffice to get the point across in the DALF exams. It definitely doesn't. It is much more about precision and about the proper balance of how close to the original sources you have to stick to, in order not to break the required genre and subject, and how far you have to go from the original text at the same time, to not be accused of copying it.

Sure courses can help with this to some extent and I've seen a few more published in the recent years. And tons of reading. High quality websites might even help more than than books in some ways, not liking book reading might be no problem in the end.



I should definitely learn to be more brief

I agree with all you have to say, Cavesa, on wanting to reach C1/C2. I do want to be able to speak about all kinds of different topics, have much more of a chance of communicating with a patient with dysphasia or a regional or foreign accent, absolutely.

I don't really have much to say on s_allard and his theories, nor do I wish to judge such theories, but as for myself with regards to vocabulary... My current absolute favourite resource is Bien-dre. In it (it's a magazine for learners of French), there are articles graded by CEFR level, I struggle with C1/C2 content a bit (no need for me to elaborate on what 'a bit' means at this stage as I haven't worked through enough of the articles yet). There are vocabulary lists which accompany each article. If I only knew core French vocabulary, I would struggle with all content in these magazines I think at the C1/C2 level and maybe even those at B2 as well. I have to learn the word lists, then the articles are much more comprehensible. Given I already have a somewhat extensive French vocabulary for a foreigner learning the language, I feel it's still esssential to learn lesson commonly used words and phrases appropriate to B2+ and C1/C2 in order to garner a clearer understanding of the article(s) in question. And I'm not necessarily taling about knowing the meaning of every single word to perfection - I mean just understanding each article 'well enough', but by no means 'mastered'.

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Cavesa

I am always staggered by reading your long, insightful, and in depth posts in a language that is not your native language and in that same language you designate as being at a C1 level. I don't know how you do it, but you are one astute dude. Thank you.

Indeed.
---------------------------------------------------------

"The Nursing and Midwifery Council is the professional regulatory body for nurses and midwives in the UK. Our role is to protect patients and the public through efficient and effective regulation.

We currently accept two language tests as evidence of your ability to communicate effectively in English: the International English Language Test System (IELTS) and the Occupational English Test (OET).

The IELTS and the OET are used across the world. They are often chosen to test the language competency of healthcare professionals in the UK.

International English Language Test System (IELTS)
If you have completed an IELTS Academic examination you must provide an IELTS certificate that confirms:

at least 7.0 in the listening and reading sections
at least 7.0 in the writing and speaking sections, and
at least 7.0 overall."
https://www.nmc.org.uk/registration/joi ... ted-tests/

Canada
Listening 7.5
Overall 7.0
https://www.crnbc.ca/Registration/RNApp ... ments.aspx

Australia: 7.0

Ireland
L/R 6.5
Overall 7.0

"our research shows that a C1 minimum threshold would fall between the 6.5 and 7 bands on the IELTS scale."
ielts.org

Nothing further to add for me, but thank you again everyone for your support! I'll get there! (one day)

[reineke]

A mock exam is indeed a good suggestion btw and something I have read about others having done.

I should definitely learn to be more brief

Dialang is an online diagnostic tool...

I don't want to spend to much time planning (i'm leaving my run a little late- no-one to blame but myself). I need to just get on with it. Thus I think I'll skip the Dialang, unless I stand to gain a lot from it that I don't already know (i assume I won't). I have a fair idea of what I need to do- get busy!

Dialang, as I recall it, takes about 90 minutes to complete and tests up to C2 (ie higher than DLI's ODA system). It's a language exercise in its own right. I see that Serpent also suggested that you take this test and she's a smart young lady. You answered that you "were planning to".

You should probably also stage some mock exams with a good tutor. That is, if you care to obtain a certificate. I should be the last person to say this but...use your time wisely.

That was in March of 2017.

[PeterMollenburg]

And I did use dialang in Dec 2016:

https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5037&start=60

That’s a year and a half ago, taken from another thread in which MASSES of forum members came to my aid.... and yet I’m still whingeing, which is why I expected little support this time, because it’s the same old story; PM is pissed off that he’s not C2, yet he’s not putting his plans requiring hard work into action for more than a week before resorting back to the scenic route.

It’s the truth behind my frustration- because I am clearly not doing what I intend to do (stick to solid study routines for any lengthy period and work at what needs attention). Sarafina hit the nail on the head. And smallwhite and reineke are also pointing out the obvious, that this is old news and I need to apply myself do practise exams, tests etc.

I ranted, yet I didn’t necessarily deserve the support I received. Truth is I like reading, but I don’t do much, TV’s okay, but I am not seeing awesome results, courses are my thing and all I’m managing is a bit if Glossika in the car. Even Bien-dire, my favourite resource is getting little attention. Instead I listen to podcasts, watch a bit news, read some truthful websites that don’t lie about global politics or health, plunge into a random course book once in a blue moon, wake early to kids after going to bed late, suffer from headaches, and rant.

I need to apply myself!

Edit: But I am working a hard, I have two young kids, I try to exercise, do my part of the house work and some days getting an hour or two of study done is like looking for a gap to run through on a war front without getting shot. For my study routines to work I have to be very strict on my own routine and organised in nearly every aspect of my every day life. It’s easier most days to ignore what I should be doing (say going to bed early, or waking at 6 am to study out in the garage on a two degree celsius morning) and watch some things here and there, read some things when I get a chance and listen some while driving.

I may have done well up to B2, and given the hours I have put in expected to be C2 by that point, or sound completely native. But now, again there’s no denying analysing what I’ve done, even if it is substantial or worthy of praise, isn’t going to make me receive a DALF C2 certificate. I need to get on with it...

I need to apply myself!

[Xenops]

Edit: But I am working a hard, I have two young kids, I try to exercise, do my part of the house work and some days getting an hour or two of study done is like looking for a gap to run through on a war front without getting shot. For my study routines to work I have to be very strict on my own routine and organised in nearly every aspect of my every day life. It’s easier most days to ignore what I should be doing (say going to bed early, or waking at 6 am to study out in the garage on a two degree celsius morning) and watch some things here and there, read some things when I get a chance and listen some while driving.
I need to apply myself!

I wonder if you are being too hard on yourself? Working full time, exercising, house chores, kids, wife...I don't think people are supposed to be constantly busy. Down time is good for your health, too. I've been learning that myself lately.

I'm wondering if you should prioritize just getting out of Australia versus making a straight bee-line to a Francophone European country. You mentioned that you can't get ahead financially there. I understand living in the lands Down Under is more expensive than in other countries. You're putting all of your eggs into the French basket: it might be time to put some in the Dutch or Spanish baskets as well.

[reineke]

Nah. He needs to do this. We need him to do this.

And I did use dialang in Dec 2016:.

And the forum is filled with your digital clawmarks as you were being dragged to do a 90 minute assessment and sit for that exam.

It would've been nice if 600 hours was 600 hours (or even a thousand), that is, even for me, personally with my approach too, if 600-1000 hrs to C2 turned out to be valid. I could've learned quite a few more languages since if that was the case. Still, it's not going to do me any good hanging on to those thoughts. I may as well get on with it.

I spent 20 minutes trying to edit that monstrous megaquote of yours.

You're referring to FSI/DLI language tables in the usual forum manner. The expected 600 study hours are with a native tutor in an intensive setting. You're forgetting a few hundred hours of homework. Also, the expected result is a lot less spectacular: B2+ on the CEFR scale (Pearson estimate). Finally, the average FSI student already knows 2 languages.

This is closer to your peer group.

"Pearson’s estimate of number of hours per increasing proficiency. Note that these are active learning hours, i.e., time explicitly devoted to learning the language, through instruction and exercises.

Total cumulative number of hours

A1 95 - 480
A2 190 - 770
B1 380 - 1386
B2 760 - 2495
C1 1520 - 4490*

Actual hours will depend on individual factors such as L1, motivation, intensity of study, etc."

*You "scored" higher than that. This is not a reason for celebration or despair. You need to review your strategies. You would do well to find someone who would push you hard. Happy learning.