Re: PM’s French Re-entry into the Matrix - Phase 1: 500 Hours Extensive Reading

[PeterMollenburg]

Nah. He needs to do this. We need him to do this.

You're referring to FSI/DLI language tables in the usual forum manner. The expected 600 study hours are with a native tutor in an intensive setting. You're forgetting a few hundred hours of homework.

No, I’m not. That’s why I allowed up to 1000 hours.

Also, the expected result is a lot less spectacular: B2+ on the CEFR scale (Pearson estimate). Finally, the average FSI student already knows 2 languages.

These points are very much worth mentioning. They were in the back of my mind however when exhibiting frustration at around 6000 hours of study. In other words, surely I’ve allowed for all these variables and then some.

"Pearson’s estimate of number of hours per increasing proficiency. Note that these are active learning hours, i.e., time explicitly devoted to learning the language, through instruction and exercises.

Total cumulative number of hours

A1 95 - 480
A2 190 - 770
B1 380 - 1386
B2 760 - 2495
C1 1520 - 4490*

Actual hours will depend on individual factors such as L1, motivation, intensity of study, etc."

Yes, and if we cut my hours out which weren’t instruction and exercises, then these numbers make a lot more sense, especially when intensity, motivation etc are factored in.

You need to review your strategies. You would do well to find someone who would push you hard. Happy learning.

Indeed. I have reviewed my strategies literally on a daily basis. The issues are mainly:
1. lack of motivation or application due to various factors, some intrinsic (self sabotage, lack of focus) some extrinsic (kids for ex.).
2. not understanding the size of the task ahead of me (importantly this relates to lack of experience).

1+2= get on with the job

And I agree someone who would push me hard, would serve me well. I will try again for that someone to be me, but a tutor will also feature.

Thanks for your analysis reineke.

[renaissancemedici]

I am literally frozen with fear right now, after having read all this! And I haven't even read it all!

Why are we talking about hours, instead of talking about covering material? Hours may be unproductive and of dubious quality, if too many in one day. Are hours a safe way to plan our language progress?

[PeterMollenburg]

I am literally frozen with fear right now, after having read all this! And I haven't even read it all!

Why are we talking about hours, instead of talking about covering material? Hours may be unproductive and of dubious quality, if too many in one day. Are hours a safe way to plan our language progress?

Language learning is a very individual experience, don’t super-impose my situation onto yours. Yes, the amount of work to reach advanced levels is often well under stated for language learners lacking previous language learning experience of note (myself included), so don’t let my experience affect you.

We’re talking hours because I happened to have tracked them. Materials have been previously discussed fairly frequently throughout this log as well. And most definitely I have not studied that well nor efficiently for very many hours contained within those overall numbers, which is why language learning experience matters.

[Ani]

I am literally frozen with fear right now, after having read all this! And I haven't even read it all!

Why are we talking about hours, instead of talking about covering material? Hours may be unproductive and of dubious quality, if too many in one day. Are hours a safe way to plan our language progress?

You have a very different mission. You're not going to spend a hundred hours on your accent, or repeat lower level courses to dig out the last bits of juice. You're going full speed ahead on the test prep path. Stop reading logs and go study :-p

[renaissancemedici]

Thank you both, I feel better now.

PM good luck with your studies, this is a very good and interesting log btw.

[PeterMollenburg]

Well things seem to be getting back on track here...

I've been rotating between four blocks of study:

Intensive reading

From Bien-dire. This is where I specifically work on raising my vocabulary beyond my current level. There are articles aimed at C1/C2 learners of French, which I read, but I also read the B-level material as well, as there still remains plenty of words and expressions in those articles that I'm also unfamiliar with.

Extensive reading

Either with my children (particularly the elder of the two, at 4 yrs old), or with my current book of choice, Globalia, which I'm enjoying quite nicely. It's a slow push forward with this book however, but it's forward motion nonetheless.

Watching

My watching block of study (these blocks are usually one hour), involves working with Buffy and the transcripts. I listen to a segment of audio, trying to catch as much as possible with my listening skills, then I return and read that segment of the transcript, which aids in clarifying what I think I hear and introduces me to things I missed. Then I re-watch the segment and move on to the next.

I'm also watching the news on occasion and of course listening to podcasts.

I finally got onto a VPN as each year when the Tour de France rolls around I want to attempt to watch it in French but it doesn't happen as I get frustrated with trying to work out which VPN I should go with.

I chose one, a very decent one and have messed around with it a little. The French website broadcasting Le Tour won't function well. My internet connection can't handle it. The Belgian one, however, does work, but not always. If my wife's watching Netflix, I've found it won't work, and reducing the quality of what I'm watching works, but the quality is shitty. Thus, I need to work out the best time of day to watch Le Tour. It's three weeks of watching that would otherwise be in English. I've found I'm wanting to switch off and ignore the French somewhat as I found it a constant stream of too much work. I'm sure that's how people must feel sometimes moving to another country. I do however have the necessary skills to follow most of it, my brain/focus just wants to be lazy. Still, I'm sure if I persist it will all be fine in the end, I just need to stick at it, as given my objectives, it'd be stupid to watch it in English.

Course work/grammar focus

I'm back working through Practise Makes Perfect - The Subjunctive Up Close, and as is usually the case, I'm working through this material ten times slower than any 'ordinary' person, but hey, whatever. There's certainly a lot to take in with regards to the subjunctive and if there is any gaps in my French this is one of them - I am pretty good for the most part, but I could certainly improve.

So, I'm currently aiming for C2 in November, but i'm yet to have my level properly assessed, or doing any serious self assessment. I am also yet to do any writing or speaking (although I had an opportune moment yesterday with a French speaking patient, which was nice). I'm continuing with Glossika while driving as well, aiming to get through the whole thing that way. At least this way I'm doing drills in a fashion that have me focus on my speaking ability. As for exam prep materials, they are waiting for me and they will happen, but right now, the routine I have I'm comfortable with.

Until next time!

...edit: Also of slight note, I’ve been exercising a little here, a little there. On the bike I’m using my bone conduction headphones, and in the kayak (ppl I think thought I was mad kayaking on a rather cold winter’s day, but they don’t understand that its more pleasant/warmer than cycling or jogging in the same weather) I used my waterproof headphones and ipod. Oh, and my wife is back at French I’m thinking I should work harder to switch the home language more and more to French (her idea initially).

[renaissancemedici]

I finally got onto a VPN as each year when the Tour de France rolls around I want to attempt to watch it in French but it doesn't happen as I get frustrated with trying to work out which VPN I should go with.

So, I'm currently aiming for C2 in November, but i'm yet to have my level properly assessed, or doing any serious self assessment. I am also yet to do any writing or speaking… As for exam prep materials, they are waiting for me and they will happen, but right now, the routine I have I'm comfortable with.

Also of slight note, I’ve been exercising a little here, a little there.

Well done on the exercising, it helps me as well.

I plan on watching the France-Belgium game in french tonight, if I can find it somewhere that is. (Allez la France!)


I am also aiming for C2 in November, I am also yet to do any writing or speaking, I am also leaving the prep exam for later. I am not studying as hard yet though, and immersion hasn't happened yet, so felicitations to you for doing so much in French. This forum does help with inspiration!

[PeterMollenburg]

I finally got onto a VPN as each year when the Tour de France rolls around I want to attempt to watch it in French but it doesn't happen as I get frustrated with trying to work out which VPN I should go with.

So, I'm currently aiming for C2 in November, but i'm yet to have my level properly assessed, or doing any serious self assessment. I am also yet to do any writing or speaking… As for exam prep materials, they are waiting for me and they will happen, but right now, the routine I have I'm comfortable with.

Also of slight note, I’ve been exercising a little here, a little there.

Well done on the exercising, it helps me as well.

I plan on watching the France-Belgium game in french tonight, if I can find it somewhere that is. (Allez la France!)


I am also aiming for C2 in November, I am also yet to do any writing or speaking, I am also leaving the prep exam for later. I am not studying as hard yet though, and immersion hasn't happened yet, so felicitations to you for doing so much in French. This forum does help with inspiration!

Ah, that would be a good game to watch! I should also watch it. I would imagine rtbf.be would cover the game in Belgium, could be wrong though! I’m going for Belgium!

I feel a bit crap without exercising! Indeed it helps

I have been following your log and like you my confidence level with regards to this exam fluctuates. Good luck to us both!!! and tnx for stopping by renaissancemedici

[smallwhite]

So, I'm currently aiming for C2 in November...

Good to hear!

[iguanamon]

Well things seem to be getting back on track here...
I've been rotating between four blocks of study:
Intensive reading
From Bien-dire. This is where I specifically work on raising my vocabulary beyond my current level. There are articles aimed at C1/C2 learners of French, which I read, but I also read the B-level material as well, as there still remains plenty of words and expressions in those articles that I'm also unfamiliar with. ...
Extensive reading
Either with my children (particularly the elder of the two, at 4 yrs old), or with my current book of choice, Globalia, which I'm enjoying quite nicely. It's a slow push forward with this book however, but it's forward motion nonetheless. ...
Watching
My watching block of study (these blocks are usually one hour), involves working with Buffy and the transcripts. ...
Course work/grammar focus
I'm currently aiming for C2 in November... As for exam prep materials, they are waiting for me and they will happen, but right now, the routine I have I'm comfortable with. ... Oh, and my wife is back at French I’m thinking I should work harder to switch the home language more and more to French (her idea initially).

Well done, PM! This looks like a well rounded, sustainable and beneficial routine. Great to see you're reading one of the books I recommended to you too, Please tell us about the book when you finish or now if you'd like.

Interesting idea about switching your home language to French. I did that in Portuguese, but with a Brazilian. I don't know how it would work within an English-speaking family, but with me it made me think of things around the house that I'd never thought of before in a second language! If you can't do AFATT at home, maybe just an hour of AFATT- l'heure de français.