Re: PM’s French Re-entry into the Matrix - Phase 1: 500 Hours Extensive Reading

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
Xenops
Brown Belt
Posts: 1444
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:33 pm
Location: Boston
Languages: English (N), Danish (A2), Japanese (rusty), Nansha (constructing)
On break: Japanese (approx. N4), Norwegian (A2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16797
x 3559
Contact:

Re: PM's French Target: C1 Nov. 2018

Postby Xenops » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:15 pm

And then there's me, who doesn't know if she is a fast reader or a slow reader. :lol:
4 x
Check out my comic at: https://atannan.com/

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: PM's French Target: C1 Nov. 2018

Postby Cavesa » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:21 pm

I don't know, perhaps I may have just not seen any need for encouragement, as there is nothing wrong about reading slower, but of course encouragement never hurts. Sorry, if I misinterpreted anything

What is extremely important is the attitude. Book lovers have much easier time studying stuff than people who hate reading. Basically, we just switch to other books, more or less liked. But people who find only sports as fun and consider books to be a waste of time ("why do you waste so much time reading? You could be doing something better instead! Some sport!"), those tend to find learning a language (or anything) much harder.

Speed has very little to do with that.
1 x

User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3229
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
x 8029

Re: PM's French Target: C1 Nov. 2018

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:58 pm

Cavesa wrote:I don't know, perhaps I may have just not seen any need for encouragement, as there is nothing wrong about reading slower, but of course encouragement never hurts. Sorry, if I misinterpreted anything

What is extremely important is the attitude. Book lovers have much easier time studying stuff than people who hate reading. Basically, we just switch to other books, more or less liked. But people who find only sports as fun and consider books to be a waste of time ("why do you waste so much time reading? You could be doing something better instead! Some sport!"), those tend to find learning a language (or anything) much harder.

Speed has very little to do with that.


Yep, and I used to be one of those sport only people, who saw reading as boring and a stupid waste of time. I think in part this is why my French journey has been a fairly meandering lengthy one thus far (among other reasons such as course loving and perfectionism). In other words, if I had read a lot more in English when I was younger, the transition to doing so in a French would be smoother/easier. The way I see it though, after going through whatever it takes to reach an advanced level in French, including reading, I believe I’ll reach such levels in other foreign languages faster in future, knowing what it takes and having done it with French, and understanding which learning methods work well for me at certain points in the journey. This is the benefit of ‘mastering’ one language to an advanced level before moving on to another.

(green) Peas out
2 x

User avatar
smallwhite
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2386
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Native: Cantonese;
Good: English, French, Spanish, Italian;
Mediocre: Mandarin, German, Swedish, Dutch.
.
x 4876

Re: PM's French Target: C1 2018

Postby smallwhite » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:44 pm

Cavesa wrote:
smallwhite wrote:while respecting forum rules.

I get the impression that people who read fast don't assimilate the grammar very well.
Faster reader -> poorer grammar
Slower reader -> better grammar

And grammar has been one of my stronger sides while being a fast reader.

Unfortunately, even if that was true, one person's results is not enough to affect global statistics.
0 x
Dialang or it didn't happen.

Xmmm
Blue Belt
Posts: 821
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:19 am
Languages: ru it tr
x 2221

Re: PM's French Target: C1 2018

Postby Xmmm » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:05 pm

smallwhite wrote:
Cavesa wrote:
smallwhite wrote:while respecting forum rules.

I get the impression that people who read fast don't assimilate the grammar very well.
Faster reader -> poorer grammar
Slower reader -> better grammar

And grammar has been one of my stronger sides while being a fast reader.

Unfortunately, even if that was true, one person's results is not enough to change global statistics.


What are these global statistics of which you speak? I call bs.

Edit to add:

I googled "slow reader and test scores" just now. There's about twenty articles on "How to increase your SAT/ACT/IELTS score by reading faster." Don't see any articles on how faster readers need to slow down. In fact, I see an article by Forbes "Do You Read Fast Enough for Success?"

Please show us your evidence!
Last edited by Xmmm on Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2 x

Ещё раз сунешь голову туда — окажешься внутри. Поняла, Фемида? -- аигел

User avatar
smallwhite
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2386
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Native: Cantonese;
Good: English, French, Spanish, Italian;
Mediocre: Mandarin, German, Swedish, Dutch.
.
x 4876

Re: PM's French Target: C1 2018

Postby smallwhite » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:10 pm

Xmmm wrote:
smallwhite wrote:
Cavesa wrote:
smallwhite wrote:while respecting forum rules.

I get the impression that people who read fast don't assimilate the grammar very well.
Faster reader -> poorer grammar
Slower reader -> better grammar

And grammar has been one of my stronger sides while being a fast reader.

Unfortunately, even if that was true, one person's results is not enough to change global statistics.


What are these global statistics of which you speak? I call bs.

Unfortunately, that's the impression I've gotten here. Which members read fast in their L2 and write in good grammar, given same amount read? How fast or slow do you read in IT and RU?
0 x
Dialang or it didn't happen.

User avatar
jeff_lindqvist
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3135
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:52 pm
Languages: sv, en
de, es
ga, eo
---
fi, yue, ro, tp, cy, kw, pt, sk
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2773
x 10462

Re: PM's French Target: C1 Nov. 2018

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:18 pm

I don't want to hijack this thread more than necessary, but I read very fast in Swedish and English - having said that, I happened to read more than twice as many books in Swedish (some of the English ones took forever to finish, due to several factors). As I've written elsewhere, how well I read is related to my overall skill. This goes for all my languages. When I was in high school (before the turn of the century...), I preferred preparing for exams by reading the same content (faster) a number of times instead of just once (slowly).

Fast isn't always negative, and slowly isn't always positive. Just make sure you know what you're best at.
3 x
Leabhair/Greannáin léite as Gaeilge: 9 / 18
Ar an seastán oíche: Oileán an Órchiste
Duolingo - finished trees: sp/ga/de/fr/pt/it
Finnish with extra pain : 100 / 100

Llorg Blog - Wiki - Discord

Xmmm
Blue Belt
Posts: 821
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:19 am
Languages: ru it tr
x 2221

Re: PM's French Target: C1 2018

Postby Xmmm » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:58 pm

smallwhite wrote:
Xmmm wrote:
smallwhite wrote:
Cavesa wrote:
smallwhite wrote:while respecting forum rules.

I get the impression that people who read fast don't assimilate the grammar very well.
Faster reader -> poorer grammar
Slower reader -> better grammar

And grammar has been one of my stronger sides while being a fast reader.

Unfortunately, even if that was true, one person's results is not enough to change global statistics.


What are these global statistics of which you speak? I call bs.

Unfortunately, that's the impression I've gotten here. Which members read fast in their L2 and write in good grammar, given same amount read? How fast or slow do you read in IT and RU?


Edited to remove my previous response.

I have the utmost respect for PM and just remembered I was on his log, which I don't want to trash.

I will just say that a counter-intuitive and highly controversial assertion was made, and supposedly it was backed by "global statistics." And it turned out the global statistics don't exist. An attempt was then made to muddy the waters by talking about my RU and IT, which I'm happy to do on my log, but not here.

Thanks for your patience, PM!
1 x

Ещё раз сунешь голову туда — окажешься внутри. Поняла, Фемида? -- аигел

User avatar
smallwhite
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2386
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Native: Cantonese;
Good: English, French, Spanish, Italian;
Mediocre: Mandarin, German, Swedish, Dutch.
.
x 4876

Re: PM's French Target: C1 2018

Postby smallwhite » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:59 am

smallwhite wrote:
Xmmm wrote:
smallwhite wrote:
Cavesa wrote:
smallwhite wrote:while respecting forum rules.

I get the impression that people who read fast don't assimilate the grammar very well.
Faster reader -> poorer grammar
Slower reader -> better grammar

And grammar has been one of my stronger sides while being a fast reader.

Unfortunately, even if that was true, one person's results is not enough to change global statistics.


What are these global statistics of which you speak? I call bs.

Unfortunately, that's the impression I've gotten here. Which members read fast in their L2 and write in good grammar, given same amount read? How fast or slow do you read in IT and RU?


Xmmm wrote:... and supposedly it was backed by "global statistics." And it turned out the global statistics don't exist. An attempt was then made to muddy the waters by talking about my RU and IT, ...

It was my impression, as I stated right from the start and quoted all along. Members I read about form the statistics. And since you form part of this population, an attempt was made to ask you to prove me wrong. I even provided ways to prove me wrong
Oh well.
0 x
Dialang or it didn't happen.

User avatar
trui
Orange Belt
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:54 pm
Languages: Native: English
Good enough: Dutch
Not there yet: German
Just starting: French
We'll see?: Russian
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 3&start=10
x 215

Re: PM's French Target: C1 Nov. 2018

Postby trui » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:43 am

What are we counting as fast and slow?

I've always heard 250 words given as an average reading speed for English and for me, I'd say that's about right. Nothing wrong with reading slower than that though! I'm currently reading a trilogy in Dutch at around 100 wpm. I find that it's a good rate for my current comprehension level, but even in English, I sometimes read at around 100 words per minute if I'm really savouring a book. Nothing wrong with that, and nothing wrong with reading faster either.

smallwhite wrote:while respecting forum rules.

I get the impression that people who read fast don't assimilate the grammar very well.
Faster reader -> poorer grammar
Slower reader -> better grammar


I'd agree, but I'd change 'fast' to 'too fast for one's comprehension level' or at least fast enough to be approaching that point. As for the grammar, you can get to a decent knowledge of grammar through grammar sites and asking lots of questions (I have with Dutch). Someone could have decent grammar without ever picking up a novel.

But if you mean the subtle knowledge of grammar that is most easily gained by consuming lots of native content, then I'd certainly agree that one should be careful not to read too fast for their comprehension level if they want to better assimilate those grammar points and it would make sense if people who read too fast assimilated grammar more poorly than those who read slower or err on the side of caution.
1 x
All comments and corrections welcome.


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests