Re: PM’s French Re-entry into the Matrix - Phase 1: 500 Hours Extensive Reading

[lingua]

PM, is this one of the tests you can retake any parts you fail? That is the case for the Italian CILS. So if I passed everything but writing (which is my problem area) then I could retake just the writing part in the future. I think it's worth taking just to see where you really stand.

[PeterMollenburg]

PM, is this one of the tests you can retake any parts you fail? That is the case for the Italian CILS. So if I passed everything but writing (which is my problem area) then I could retake just the writing part in the future. I think it's worth taking just to see where you really stand.

I’ve never heard of ppl failing certain sections of the delf/dalf exams and being able to resit just those sections. I have, of course heard of it with other exams round these parts on the forum. In some ways I’d rather not know if it were possible unless i failed a section and then it became relevant.

As for taking the exam to see where i’m at, while I agree, I must stress that much of one’s ability to pass a dalf c1 or c2 rests solely on the exam format. It’s one thing to read books, watch TV, study advanced grammar. Comptes rendus, synthèse de documents and the like are not only a matter of language level but also a matter of absolutely and utterly completely understanding how to write these annoyingly annoying written formats or you will simply fail. Must get on with it...

[PeterMollenburg]

Quick update:

Things outside of language study are becoming increasingly challenging. I study well for a day or two then problems arise that I cannot ignore or that simply throw me, to the point that I cannot or do not want to focus on exam study and end up reading bits of news, perhaps a few pages of book, watch a little something. That's not enough at this point. Every day, every hour right now counts. Having said that, the overall sentiment is a resounding yes, I want to sit this exam, absolutely, but I've made an agreement to give it until the end of the week to see whether it's fair that I continue studying the amount I want to with all else that is going on around us. That will depend more than likely on how smooth this week goes. My wife feels that she wants me to sit this exam but not to the detriment of everyone's capacity to remain stable and resolve this situation together.

I think I'm likely to sit it regardless, but whether I'll be walking in expecting to almost fail due to insufficient preparation and take it as an exercise in preparing me for a future pass, or whether I walk in more likely to pass will depend on how this week unfolds and therefore how much time it is agreed I can put aside to prepare from here on. All in all, agreement has been met, that there will be benefit sitting it either way.

[MorkTheFiddle]

You are going to do well! Period!

[PeterMollenburg]

Not much change here...

Okay, things got a bit worse still, but then improved quite a lot. As we've limited room, but I need my study space my desk is now in the laundry! Squeezed into the laundry is a basin, washing maching, cupboard, chest freezer and my desk (full of language learning matierial)! Ah the lengths I will go to to have my learning environment intact - that desk has been everywhere, in all kinds of rooms and spaces (and even in the garage last year) over the years in various houses we've lived in....

I've been so tired. I don't think my exam prep is going so well. I've lost momentum and never really got it up and fully going to be honest. I did a C1 listening activity the other day. Listen to the audio twice, then answer the questions (answer some as you go if you can). Out of 15 questions I think I could answer about two of them with confidence. I think I am going to struggle with this exam, but i'm still of the mind that it is worth me sitting it, and i'm also of the mind that this is the end of the road for French-only studies, pass or fail. There's no reason why failing means the death of me, there's no reason why I can't try to pass, there's no reason why I can't continue to improve my French beyond this exam pass or fail.

I'm not sure how much tiredness if factoring in to my poor ability to draw information out of fast-paced C-level listening documents. I suspect I'm just not good at this kind of activity regardless. Still, yesterday at work, at my less important job, my casual more easy going job, I was almost falling asleep in the middle of the day just reading various things on the computer! I've been eating some really shitful food on occasion too. I need to boost my health over the coming month in prep for the exam as well, so that I walk in alert and ready to pounce on the answers, even if I do struggle.

I've been procrastinating too. Easy to do, when life has been so up and down of late. I guess it's best to watch documentaries in French on the shocking history of volcanic eruptions in the Antilles in the Carribean than to do nothing at all. At least I'm listening, right? I still keep thinking my reading is not up to scratch, my listening could improve (doco's are not an issue, nor the news, but Plus Belle la Vie and Call my Agent!, if I'm tired especially, I find myself thinking I can't understand shit in this language I've studied for -bleeping- six years. If i'm alert, I do better, but it's nothing to write home about.

So tonight (and this is not unusual of course), I resorted to my regular procrastination of wondering which languages I might study post exam. My latest? Who cares... well anyway it's like this:

1 hour Dutch
30 min of Norwegian, Spanish or Arabic (rotating through each time to the next language)
1 hour French
3o min again of NO/ ES/ AR

Yeah, Arabic seems to be calling me again. But seriously, where will I got doing 30 minutes of Arabic every so often (not even necessarily daily), and same for Spanish and Norwegian... I think I'm always going to be facing dilemma's of time, like most of us language learning wanderlusters. That sort of thinking drives me to wondering whether I'm better of doing a hard 6 months/12 months of one language, turning it into 30 min slow progress afterwards and doing the same for the next language (6 to 12 months harder study, then slow progression mode)... Whatever.

Tired, distracted, confused, lacking confidence, nervous and immune systems bombarded with sugar, who cares, PM

PS Fat is good for you - sugars attack proteins, brain is made of protein, reclaim your brain, which thrives on fats, homeostasis is much more difficult to maintain with constant influxes of sugars (and therefore insulin) into the blood stream (which weakens immune strength)- solution, eliminate carbs. Fats and meats are NOT the culprits, don't believe the matrix of control, take control of your health and your own thoughts, the matrix wants you sick, since as such you feed that same sytem of BS, take the power back!

[Gustav Aschenbach]

Yeah, Arabic seems to be calling me again. But seriously, where will I got doing 30 minutes of Arabic every so often (not even necessarily daily), and same for Spanish and Norwegian... I think I'm always going to be facing dilemma's of time, like most of us language learning wanderlusters. That sort of thinking drives me to wondering whether I'm better of doing a hard 6 months/12 months of one language, turning it into 30 min slow progress afterwards and doing the same for the next language (6 to 12 months harder study, then slow progression mode)... Whatever.

I would say don't do to much, don't spread yourself to thin, better focus on few things, that's the way to go for most people (there are exceptions to the rule of course). I personally would love to study many more languages, but I know that's not possible, I just don't have the time. It would end up in a lot of stress and frustration and chaos. And there are other things I want to do in my life. For example finally enjoying the fruits of my language studies by just using the languages.

[MorkTheFiddle]

Eating right and getting sufficient rest always do wonders for my state of mind. For a busy person, getting enough rest may not always be possible, but eating right can be possible at least most of the time. Being no expert in these matters, I will leave it at that.

[PeterMollenburg]

Yeah, Arabic seems to be calling me again. But seriously, where will I got doing 30 minutes of Arabic every so often (not even necessarily daily), and same for Spanish and Norwegian... I think I'm always going to be facing dilemma's of time, like most of us language learning wanderlusters. That sort of thinking drives me to wondering whether I'm better of doing a hard 6 months/12 months of one language, turning it into 30 min slow progress afterwards and doing the same for the next language (6 to 12 months harder study, then slow progression mode)... Whatever.

I would say don't do to much, don't spread yourself to thin, better focus on few things, that's the way to go for most people (there are exceptions to the rule of course). I personally would love to study many more languages, but I know that's not possible, I just don't have the time. It would end up in a lot of stress and frustration and chaos. And there are other things I want to do in my life. For example finally enjoying the fruits of my language studies by just using the languages.

Hey Gustav,

While I would normally agree with you, I don't necessarily this time around. 'Last time around' which is actually still current, has involved 6 years of French only. That has served me well - taught me a lot about what it takes to bring one language to advanced level, taught me a lot about myself and my learning methods, what works, what doesn't work, what i'm still unsure of, and where I can improve efficiency, and it also taught me a lot of French! And, I truly think your words are full of wisdom...

However, we must adapt to our circumstances according to our goals. While I must boost my Dutch into the stratosphere over the coming two years, I also want to introduce the three - Dutch, Spanish and Norwegian into my learning routine with my children. I don't necessarily expect fluency (a loose term) in these languages in the near future, but I expect to activate Dutch considerably for them and have them very familiar with Norwegian and Spanish vocabulary/grammar structures (more than likely passively) and perhaps know how to carry on/understand a basic conversation in these two. All this will be done age-appropriately (i.e. predominantly through stories and other such child friendly methods), but I cannot accomplish it without some study devoted to each of these languages myself. It's somewhat time critical as my eldest is 5 and a half and I don't want to miss the boat with her language-flexible child mind.

Why Dutch? It's a favourite of mine, a heritage language (my father was born in NL) and it holds employment opportunities for me. Ressurrecting it should be much easier than starting from scratch, having gone beyond B1 level 8 years back. Spanish - i see it as more accessible now that I have reached a decent level of French, and although I see it opening few to no doors in terms of employment, I see it as an important (as well as an interesting) world language that my children will benefit knowing/understanding some career or travel-wise. Norwegian, is rather limited, but it's simply a language my daughter would love to learn, and she's been somewhat fascinated with it for a couple of years now perhaps. I have good friends in Norway too, so perhaps it's a little bit of a fun language this one.

I'd like to squeeze in other languages too, that changes depending on my moood. Lately it's Arabic, but I think going beyond four languages could be a real squeeze and likely result in definitely spreading myself too thin. It's a shame, as I've some excellent resources I'd just love to sink my teeth into, but perhaps they'll have to wait... a... long.... time...!

If I had my time over, or if I imagine some alternative life in an alternative dimension, there are certainly very many years in my 20s where I could've lived a language-learning monastic existence much like prof Arguelles... but could I? No, not really. Still, it's nice to dream unrealistic dreams. Maybe I wouldn't be learning languages today, had I taken a different path. The thing is at various moments in my 20s I did have masses of time, and very much had the idea of learning multiple languages, and yet I just couldn't bring myself to act on those desires. I collected resources, would study a bit and well stop again. It seems as though I needed to toughen up mentally to be ready for such challenges. I had no idea what it really took (to learn a language thoroughly).

Eating right and getting sufficient rest always do wonders for my state of mind. For a busy person, getting enough rest may not always be possible, but eating right can be possible at least most of the time. Being no expert in these matters, I will leave it at that.

You sure sound like an expert, and wise one at that, and I mean that sincerely. Such wisdom needs few words. I agree with you MorkTheFiddle, but sometimes living up to my idealism is a little hard - my ego (and advertising) get in the way! I shall do my best to get back on track

[iguanamon]

Self language learning is all about the "self". It's ironic that learning a way to communicate with others is such a solitary exercise for many of us, but most of us here are not living and working in a TL country, nor, for most of us- will we. So, as such, what we aim to gain from this pursuit is for us to define.

Ultimately, the only way to know if you can learn multiple languages successfully simultaneously is to try. You have learned more than French in your long journey through learning French. You have also learned how to learn. You've learned what you could have done without and what you maybe should have done instead. In a sense, we are our own experiment that we run on ourselves in this process. With the myriad methods, approaches, formulas available for learning and the many desired outcomes from which to aim to achieve, we tend to discover and attain our own efficiency- which usually does not correlate to others' efficiencies.

Whatever you choose to do in this crazy pursuit that we have here, called language-learning, will be right for you as long as you are happy with it. Just remember, you can always make more money. Love is always infinite. Time is finite. There are 24 hours in a day and we are not machines. We are human. We must sleep, eat and relax. Most of us must work and probably most of us are not fortunate enough to have jobs that allow us a significant amount of time for language-learning while we are working. Many of us have families to take care of in addition to ourselves. Time is the main limiting factor in learning. Managing time is very important but it isn't the only thing.

Learning languages is so exciting and beguiling for most of us here. That's why we're here. I wish I could learn all the languages and travel the world to gain the benefits of having learned them. I can't. Speaking for myself as an experienced learner, I know I can't have two languages on the go at beginner level simultaneously. I just can't deal with it. In my years on the forum, I have seen that the vast majority of monolingual beginners can't do this either. Every time I see an overly enthusiastic monolingual beginner try to take on two languages at the same time, I cringe because the result will almost always be the same. Even experienced learners who have learned a second language to a high level have difficulty juggling multiple languages. The successful ones all have a strategy for doing so and have refined their approach in such a way that it is doable. You are not a monolingual beginner. What you have gained in your journey to being a French-speaker will inform your next learning experience. I wish you all the best in finding your own way, which I know you will do.

Yes, you being you, you will make overly elaborate study plans and then change them umpteen times. Yes, life will get in the way of these plans... but you will succeed, of that I am sure.

[PeterMollenburg]

Self language learning is all about the "self". It's ironic that learning a way to communicate with others is such a solitary exercise for many of us, but most of us here are not living and working in a TL country, nor, for most of us- will we. So, as such, what we aim to gain from this pursuit is for us to define.

Ultimately, the only way to know if you can learn multiple languages successfully simultaneously is to try. You have learned more than French in your long journey through learning French. You have also learned how to learn. You've learned what you could have done without and what you maybe should have done instead. In a sense, we are our own experiment that we run on ourselves in this process. With the myriad methods, approaches, formulas available for learning and the many desired outcomes from which to aim to achieve, we tend to discover and attain our own efficiency- which usually does not correlate to others' efficiencies.

Whatever you choose to do in this crazy pursuit that we have here, called language-learning, will be right for you as long as you are happy with it. Just remember, you can always make more money. Love is always infinite. Time is finite. There are 24 hours in a day and we are not machines. We are human. We must sleep, eat and relax. Most of us must work and probably most of us are not fortunate enough to have jobs that allow us a significant amount of time for language-learning while we are working. Many of us have families to take care of in addition to ourselves. Time is the main limiting factor in learning. Managing time is very important but it isn't the only thing.

Learning languages is so exciting and beguiling for most of us here. That's why we're here. I wish I could learn all the languages and travel the world to gain the benefits of having learned them. I can't. Speaking for myself as an experienced learner, I know I can't have two languages on the go at beginner level simultaneously. I just can't deal with it. In my years on the forum, I have seen that the vast majority of monolingual beginners can't do this either. Every time I see an overly enthusiastic monolingual beginner try to take on two languages at the same time, I cringe because the result will almost always be the same. Even experienced learners who have learned a second language to a high level have difficulty juggling multiple languages. The successful ones all have a strategy for doing so and have refined their approach in such a way that it is doable. You are not a monolingual beginner. What you have gained in your journey to being a French-speaker will inform your next learning experience. I wish you all the best in finding your own way, which I know you will do.

Yes, you being you, you will make overly elaborate study plans and then change them umpteen times. Yes, life will get in the way of these plans... but you will succeed, of that I am sure.

Thank you iguanamon, for your wise words.

Of late I'm doubting my ability to even sit this French exam, since when not busy (when is that lately!!!) I've done the wrong thing - i.e. ate the wrong food which has repercussions, stayed up late, procrastinated, but I still believe I will sit the exam regardless. I'm pretty much okay with the idea of failing (I say that now), should that happen, and the chances of that happening are increasing with every day lately for the aforementioned distractions. Still, i'm also okay with moving on to a multiple language plan come November.

My perfectionist side wants a total annihilation plan for Dutch alone. However, when I consider I just need to make B2 come two years or so, and in theory should have little issue doing so, given my past experience in both French (experience of learning styles) and Dutch itself.

I've gone over my multiple language plan SOOOOOOOOOO many times it's absolutely nuts. I am almost convinced I'm somewhat nuts with this regard. Still, yesterday I think I finally landed on a plan i'm okay with. I base it on an estimate of the time between when I complete the French exam and when we could in theory leave for Belgium if plans go as planned. That's a 770 day period. I've (currently ) decided that my daily desk study should look roughly like this:

60 minutes Dutch
40 minutes French
40 minutes Norwegian
40 minutes Spanish

total = 3 hours/day. In reality I've never made the 3 hours daily too well, but I have a contingency plan. Given my family is expanding, I MUST exercise (or I'll go more insane) and I want to spend time with my kids and wife... well, this time around instead of absolutely having to reach 3 hours of 'desk study'/day, i'll accept any kind of study to reach the 3 hour mark divided between all the languages, but, as Dutch is more important currently, i'll target at least doing the 60 min of Dutch at the desk each day as well as other additional activities outside of that in Dutch. For the other languages if I don't end up studying at my desk, but instead read to my kids or listen to language programs/podcasts on commutes, well that's good enough. All in all if I can manage the numbers above, after 777 days, i'll have reached 770 hours of Dutch (plus extras), and 513 hours total for each of the other languages (French = slow growth/maintenance). As I said, I do have considerable experience with Dutch, some less significant experience with Spanish and Norwegian will be the only totally new one.

The idea is to reach those numbers and hopefully the languages will start to take more care of themselves as I use them more and more with our children and they become part of that routine (stories, limited TV - it's not good for the little ones, some talking depending on the language). Then I can introduce another 17 languages (yes Arabic and Luxembourgish AND German are still calling, but I have to weather those wanderlust storms for the time being or my plan will fall apart). I learned the hard way that juggling too many things leads to too slow progress, and stopping and starting achieves little when one is targeting advanced fluency. As I stuck to French solely almost entirely for the last 6 years, I now need to grapple with a new plan and stick to that solidly for the coming two years, but I tread carefully, indeed.

Anyway, iguanamon, thank you so much for your feedback. You're a member of this forum who is held in high esteem by most if not all our members due to your wise words and wealth of experience, and so it goes that your input is greatly appreciated. I hope your language learning journey is fairing well of late.

Peter McOver Peter von Peterson Petersburg-ville-stad-ciuidad, verdad?