Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
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Xenops
Brown Belt
Posts: 1444
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:33 pm
Location: Boston
Languages: English (N), Danish (A2), Japanese (rusty), Nansha (constructing)
On break: Japanese (approx. N4), Norwegian (A2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16797
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Re: Morgana's log, 2.0.

Postby Xenops » Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:05 am

Morgana wrote:Still cracking on. The end of last year ground me down and it was necessary to pull back from a lot of things (including the internet). Fortunately in that space I was able to find my way back to Swedish.

Ok. Going to fade out into the background for a while again to keep my focus. Thanks for clicking.


Welcome Back!!! :mrgreen: :P :D I enjoyed reading your posts from before.

I'm sorry last year was unkind to you. Hopefully things will look up? I'll pray for you.
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Systematiker
Blue Belt
Posts: 823
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 6:09 pm
Languages: ENG (N); DEU (C2+) // SWG (~C1); BAR (~C1); SPA (4/3); FRA (~C1); SCO (~C1); NLD (~B2*); LAT (Latinum Bavaricum); GRC (Graecum Bavaricum); CAT (~B2*); POR (~B2*); SWE (~B2*); HBO (Hebraicum); DAN (~B1*); RUS (~A2); KOR (~A1); FAS (still a raw beginner)
*Averaged for high receptive skill
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7332
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Re: Morgana's log, 2.0.

Postby Systematiker » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:26 pm

Welcome back indeed!
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jeff_lindqvist
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3135
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:52 pm
Languages: sv, en
de, es
ga, eo
---
fi, yue, ro, tp, cy, kw, pt, sk
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2773
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Re: Morgana's log, 2.0.

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:56 pm

Morgana wrote:From Tuesday's Radio Sweden på lätt svenska:
De vill att regeringen ska ge mer pengar till vård och till kvinnojourer, för att hjälpa personer som utsätts för sexuella brott.

My attempt at a translation: "They want the government to give more money to care and to women's services/refuges, in order to help people who have been exposed to sexual crimes." ?
/.../
And by extension, if Google's version is correct, then som can sort of be "dropped" from the translation into English?

Edit: Some stuff.
Edit 2: The more I stare at this sentence, the wronger I feel about my reading of it. Does the clause following för att need a subject? So maybe there's more to it I'm missing.


It's a standard passive form in the present tense - utsätts för (infinitive - att utsättas för, past tense - utsattes för, perfect - har utsatts för etc.). Passives may seem strange in the present tense, as if it's an ongoing process (in this context, the people have already been exposed to the offenses), but a more common example could be:
Engelska talas i många länder. English is spoken in many countries. It's not a "completed" action, but rather something happening in the now.

Som is required in your example.

för att - in order to; a verb is required (...hjälpa), that's it.

Hope this helps.
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Duolingo - finished trees: sp/ga/de/fr/pt/it
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jeff_lindqvist
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3135
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Languages: sv, en
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Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2773
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Re: Morgana's log, 2.0.

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:34 am

Morgana wrote:Big help, thank you. I didn't realize it was a particle verb, so that also helps. It's moreso that I haven't run into a lot of 2nd 4th conjugation verbs in passive present tense, whereas I have more so with conjugation 1, where it's just infinitive+s. The 2nd 4th conjugation is not like that, so takes more attention to detail to notice (for me).

It seems, then, regarding som, that there's not always an English translation for it - ie. that the Swedish construction requires it but in English we can just skip over it and say "for people exposed..." and not “for people who are exposed...” (Except for my example, as you pointed out. I should have been clearer here - I am used to som being translated, I am less practiced at expressions where it is omitted in English. I have to get better at telling when it should and should not be translated into English.)

Thanks for clarification about för att. I was really starting to overthink things :oops: Thanks for all that!

Edit: BUT WAIT :o 2nd conjugation verbs don't change their vowels, but 4th conjugation verbs do, if I remember correctly. So this would be a 4th conjugation verb. It's the changing vowel + not using infinitive in passive present that messes me up. Ugh I don't want to be all incorrect about the verb categorizations in this log haha.
Edit 2: Striked through paragraph on som. Oh my, am I overthinking this. It is completely possible to translate it as “people who are exposed,” and for whatever reason Google Translate decided to leave out a couple words. I think I should ditch Google Translate because I’d probably have done better with this on my own, or at least not had so much contorted thinking going on.


Maybe you're overthinking? Utsätta (för) is a transitive verb (which needs an object), add an s- and it becomes passive. Same with any other verb that can take an object. Äta - ätas, läsa - läsas, måla - målas, skriva - skrivas, reparera - repareras, lägga - läggas and the list goes on. Now, utsätta does change vowels (or rather, the root verb sätta does), and it has an added preposition/particle - both of which may be confusing at this moment, but the main concept is the passive -s.
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Leabhair/Greannáin léite as Gaeilge: 9 / 18
Ar an seastán oíche: Oileán an Órchiste
Duolingo - finished trees: sp/ga/de/fr/pt/it
Finnish with extra pain : 100 / 100

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tiia
Blue Belt
Posts: 735
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:52 pm
Location: Finland
Languages: German (N), English (?), Finnish (C1), Spanish (B2??), Swedish (B2)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=2374
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Re: Morgana's log, 2.0.

Postby tiia » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:59 am

Morgana wrote:I'm questioning the wisdom of said purchase because as I progress through A1+A2 there seems to be more and more group work/in-class exercises... There are probably benefits to trying to do such things on one's own but I don't feel like it's purposeful for me to try forming sentences orally etc. if I have no feedback. (I also only rarely do the written exercises if there's no answers given.)|


Just a spontaneous thought: Do you have any interest in doing the oral tasks with another learner (=me) online? I supposed you're quite ahead of me, as you have been learning Swedish for some time longer and doing lots of extra stuff. But at least you wrote, that you're somehow in the middle of Rivstart A1+A2 and I should be around chapter 10 (and haven't really continued since January... :oops: ).
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Corrections for entries written in Finnish, Spanish or Swedish are welcome.
Project 30+X: 25 / 30

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reineke
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3570
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:34 pm
Languages: Fox (C4)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6979
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Re: Morgana's log, 2.0.

Postby reineke » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:07 pm

Vocabulearn Ukrainian is available on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/album/1EP03hLA0PIFz9Q7b9Kkyx
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reineke
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3570
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:34 pm
Languages: Fox (C4)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6979
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Re: Morgana's log, 2.0.

Postby reineke » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:54 pm

It has occurred to me to take a look at Ukrainian. And Polish. And Czech. I have played with Swedish for only about 5 minutes. I don't know how many times I deleted Polish and Dutch stuff from my phone. Give Ukrainian a try. Languages do get jealous and maybe you'll enjoy getting back to Russian. You'll also need to learn how to commit and how to let go. I am not sure I have great advice there. However, Ukrainian being "easier" is a poor reason to abandon Russian.
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reineke
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3570
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Languages: Fox (C4)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6979
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Re: Morgana's log, 2.0.

Postby reineke » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:57 am

I responded since I am currently playing with these languages and I happened to remember that Spotify has some interesting courses. I am also counting that someone else might be looking for Ukrainian resources. I will allow that for an English speaker Ukrainian may feel a little easier ie a 90 pound bag of potatoes vs 100 pounds but if you use it as a springboard to learn Russian, you'll be lugging 150 pounds.

...

I may have just bummed myself out of learning Polish..If you are looking for something probably even easier than Ukrainian I believe that Bulgarian used to be classified a tier lower on FSI charts (together with German).
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Iversen
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: Denmark
Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
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Re: Morgana's log, 2.0.

Postby Iversen » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:49 pm

The Bulgarian substantives are easier, but the verbs are harder ...
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Neurotip
Green Belt
Posts: 332
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:02 pm
Location: London, UK
Languages: eng N; ita & fra B2+, ell & deu B2-, ísl B1 (spa & swe A2?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9850
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Re: Morgana's log, 2.0.

Postby Neurotip » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:13 pm

Morgana wrote:As for jealousy... I am in a committed relationship with Swedish, we haven't discussed opening that relationship up, it's still relatively early times. But maybe down the road... ;)

Good to hear that someone else thinks about their relationships with languages in terms of ... relationships. :lol: I think there's real mileage in that metaphor!
BTW I have heard Ukrainian spoken, just once, and I was completely entranced. I can't seem to recapture that using YouTube though...
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