rdearman - Un journal français

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Re: rdearman - Un journal français

Postby tastyonions » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:44 pm

Some corrections:

chercher des bonbons
lui demanda (or: lui a demandé) (demander *à* quelqu'un)
Marie faisaient un signe de la main (gesticuler is more like "talk with one's hands")
lapine qu'ils (don't need "femme," "lapine" specifies the gender and animals are "femelles")
tous les amis (unless you meant that they are all female friends)
l'école étaient là (ici = here)
table avec des bonbons
Roger s'étouffe avec (or: s'est étouffé avec) (when you choke on your food, you s'étouffe)
pourquoi crie-t-elle (French does not have a true progressive tense, "être + participe" means that you are using the participle as an adjective)
renard que
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Re: rdearman - Un journal français

Postby rdearman » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:27 pm

tastyonions wrote:Some corrections:

chercher des bonbons
lui demanda (or: lui a demandé) (demander *à* quelqu'un)
Marie faisaient un signe de la main (gesticuler is more like "talk with one's hands")
lapine qu'ils (don't need "femme," "lapine" specifies the gender and animals are "femelles")
tous les amis (unless you meant that they are all female friends)
l'école étaient là (ici = here)
table avec des bonbons
Roger s'étouffe avec (or: s'est étouffé avec) (when you choke on your food, you s'étouffe)
pourquoi crie-t-elle (French does not have a true progressive tense, "être + participe" means that you are using the participle as an adjective)
renard que

Au moins, la liste est plus courte maintenant. :lol:
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Re: rdearman - Un journal français

Postby rdearman » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:47 am

- Roger ! Où étais-tu ? La maman demanda ?
- Je suis désolé, maman. Je veux les bonbons et je marche l’avec Marie.
Roger a un air larmoyant. La maman du Roger sourit et ébouriffait ses cheveux.
- D'accord, mais tu promets-tu jamais, part chez nous seuls.
- Oui, maman, je promets. Dit Roger.
- Je vais te regarder aussi. Dit monsieur Reneke.
Roger hocher la tête.
- Donc, laissez-nous aller à la fête. Dit la maman du Roger. Au revoir monsieur Reneke, et merci.
- Au revoir Madam Mollenburg, au revoir Roger.
Après Roger et ta maman l'ont laissé derrière Roger dit.
- Monsieur Reneke est très effrayant. Tous les renards sont-ils effrayants comme lui ?
- Mais no ! Monsieur Reneke n’est pas effrayant. Lui est bon, et lui ami tous les enfants.
Roger ne répond pas. Il pense, monsieur Reneke est très effrayant et il déteste encore les humains. Bientôt. Roger a oubli monsieur. Reneke car il rencontre ton ami Urbain et ses mamans. Urbain et Roger déploient ses ailes pour le salut.

- Maman, pouvoir je vole avec Urbain ?
- Oui, mais reste près moi.
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Re: rdearman - Un journal français

Postby tastyonions » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:12 pm

First remark: try to stick to one "time frame" for the narration. You have passé simple, présent, imparfait, infinitif, and passé composé mixed around without (as far as I can tell) much rhyme or reason. Some suggestions:

lui demande sa maman (changing this to present because you use present in most of the story)
Je veux des bonbons et je me promène avec Marie ("marcher" designates the specific physical motion or "to march" in the military sense, "se promener" or "faire un tour" is to walk around, take a walk)
sourit et lui ébouriffe les cheveux (actions done to body parts often use the form indirect personal pronoun + verb + body part)
mais promets-moi que tu ne sortiras jamais seul
je te promets (or: je te le promets)
je te tiens à l'oeil (= to keep someone under close watch) (instead of "je vais te regarder")
hoche la tête
Alors, on y va ? ("laissez-nous aller" is literal translation of the English "let us go," in French this (or "lâchez-nous") is what you might say to someone who was physically restraining you)
il est quelqu'un de bien et aime les enfants
Après l'avoir quitté, Roger et sa maman
il pense que Monsieur...
Mais peu après Roger oublie...
car il croise son ami...et sa maman
déploient leurs ailes pour se saluer
Maman, puis-je voler
reste près de (or: ne t'éloigne pas trop de)
Last edited by tastyonions on Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:45 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: rdearman - Un journal français

Postby rdearman » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:18 pm

comment est-il possible que les correctifs soient plus longs que l'histoire.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :oops: :oops:
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Re: rdearman - Un journal français

Postby tastyonions » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:24 pm

Courage ! Tu t'améliores.
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Re: rdearman - Un journal français

Postby smallwhite » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:46 pm

rdearman wrote:
Lui est bon, et lui ami tous les enfants.

You're immune to the corrections the same way you've been immune to the 15k(?) pages of books you've read. Are you able to write out the basic grammar lists and tables like
pronoun lists like "I, you, he, ..." and "my, your, his, ...",
the various "the" and when to use which,
the various "this" and when to use which,
etc?
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Re: rdearman - Un journal français

Postby tastyonions » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:22 pm

"Lui est bon" could easily be a case of mixing up French with Italian ("lui è buono").

I would definitely not recommend studying both of those languages at the same time with a similar level...
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Re: rdearman - Un journal français

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:47 pm

Hey, it's just interference. Not a big deal unless you're aiming for 100% perfection at once.

Methods to stop yourself from mixing up different languages?
Cavesa wrote:Keep learning. Put time and efforts into them, especially the weaker one.

Of course your brain fills the unknown gaps in one language with stuff that is in the same drawer "foreign languages" but happens to belong to a different one. Improve and interference will weaken. :-)

Another tip: if the two languages happen to be related, use a lot of audio. For example French and Spanish look much more alike than they sound, so the auditory part of learning was helping me keep them separate.


improvemement while adding new languages
tarvos wrote:I don't mind interference from related languages. Usually you get the point across anyway and when people correct you because it's an obvious mistake, you'll learn. To me the benefits of the similar grammar outweigh the disadvantages of some differing vocabulary.
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Re: rdearman - Un journal français

Postby smallwhite » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:47 am

The speculated reason for error, if accurately speculated, is irrelevant here as Italian is a fact that cannot be changed and there are more Italians on their way. And we are far from fussing over "100% perfection at once" - we are seeing 18/28 = 64% accuracy in basic personal pronouns after 1000 hours of work. How else do you tell if RD is just using pronouns and articles incorrectly, or if he doesn't actually know them correctly in the first place? I propose trying to list them out on a blank sheet of paper. You can suggest a better test. Or to ignore the problem.

And if getting basic personal pronouns correct is too much to ask for after 1000 hours in a Cat I, then what benchmark should we use to judge if the current learning method is effective and the most appropriate? Say, what accuracy should we expect after 1000 words of Roger, that if not achieved, RD should adjust this method or even move on and try another method? "Lui" was pointed out before. How do you tell if lui is on track or not?
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