sctroyenne: French, Irish, Spanish (new beginnings?)

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Re: Some observations on French in Québec

Postby Estrella » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:00 pm

sctroyenne wrote: I *want* to say that cashiers using tu tend to be older but that may not be a rule. This can be very confusing for learners to figure out since in France the one 100% situation to always use vous in is in conversations between customers and service employees (either person in that situation using tu would be considered very disrespectful to the other).


They use "tu" to be friendly and close to their customers. They often do it when you're around the same age or younger than them. However, they usually don't dare using "tu" with people who are much older than they are or people who look very serious and not very friendly. I guess it means you look friendly. ;)
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New French Music

Postby sctroyenne » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:59 am

Now that this year's edition of the FrancoFolies is over, as promised I have a bunch of new French music to share.

Gab Paquet
The 80s are still big which for me is a good thing. To kick off the list, one of the first artists I caught this year isn't just a little inspired by the 80s, he's a full-on throwback performance artist. So much so that he has an actual mullet and made a whole song dedicated to it ("court en avant, long en arrière, long en arrière, court en avant..."). He seems to have built a dedicated following - there was a big group of very enthusiastic fans at his performance.



And just to be able to appreciate the live experience, "Fais l'amour avec moi" (isn't this what we all learn French for?):



Fishbach
Less literal 80s but very much 80s-inspired and very brooding-style French.



Le Couleur
Probably my favorite concert experience of the whole festival, this Quebec electronic band rocked it. They had the whole audience dancing and I felt like I was a glamorous, cutting-edge person in a nightclub in Miami in the 80s. The funny thing about their name being Le Couleur and not La, my bass teacher was completely thrown off by it to the point that he was unable to understand that I was saying the word "couleur" and needed me to spell it for him. I'll need to find an interview or something where they explain the gender change.




Paradis
Le Couleur opened for this French group which is another electronic pop band with a nu-disco sound. They're less rock and more pop and more laid back.



If you like more electronic pop, nu-disco, etc some other suggestions I have (not from the festival):

L'Impératrice
They do a lot of great purely-instrumental songs but they have a few with vocals in French. They have some great disco-style bass lines and guitar.



Kid Francescoli
This is cheating a bit since they've only done one or two songs in French but I like them so much overall I'm sneaking them in.



Daniel Bélanger
And to round out the throwback section of this post with the 90s, a standard Quebec artist (not at all new...). My bass teacher who otherwise doesn't have any plans of making me play through the Quebec artist songbook does have this song queued up for me to learn since it is a great line:



Gustafson
Moving onto a more chanson sound, this band had an excellent live set. I would say that live their rock sound comes out a bit more (they had a ton of musicians on the stage). They are also one of three bands that had a sax player (sax is back, baby!).



François & The Atlas Mountains
A French band that is chanson/pop with a bit of a world music inspiration.



Safia Nolin
Moving on to some Quebec female artists. Folk is huge in Quebec and this singer-songwriter is one of the most successful new mainstream folk artists. I didn't see her live during this festival (though I was practically standing next to her in the crowd watching another band) but I saw her at a benefit concert for the bar/concert venue Divan Orange. She has a voice that's really powerful without belting (her music is very quiet and tranquil) and live it just goes straight to your soul.




Klô Pelgag
I actually haven't seen her yet but she's quickly become part of the Quebec music institution that is present at every major music event here. She's a pop artist with a very unique sound that can be described as light, airy, energetic, fairy-like.



La Bronze
She didn't take part in this year's Francos but she was there last year and I saw her at a free event during the POP festival. She was adorable and I like her voice so I wanted to include her.



As a bonus, her cover of Formidable by Stromae in Arabic (with parts in French):



Karim Ouellet
I worked the press table for his concert during the Coup de Coeur Francophone festival in November and he's another part of the Quebec artist crowd that you see at all of these events. He was pretty adorable playing onstage in his animal costume.



Fuudge
Moving on to rock, this is a hard rock band that put on a great show. I've been disappointed that I haven't encountered Galaxie here yet but this band is signed to the same label and is very similar in style. They had a small mosh pit going.



Chocolat
I wasn't even expecting to see them but their psychedelic rock drew me in. They had a really good set and I'm already planning on seeing them again. They're another band that had a sax player (unexpectedly considering their style).



La Femme
Speaking of psychedelic rock, I need to mention La Femme. I've featured them before and they weren't here for the festival but I saw them live in the Fall and that show was absolutely crazy. I didn't know that night that I was going to be in a mosh pit but I was. I had bruises on my knees, half the band crowd surfed, and it was one of the top three sweatiest shows I've been to (the other two being Stromae and !!! aka chk-chk-chk). I'm mentioning them because they're getting to be quite successful outside of France and will be touring Europe and North America (outside the typical Francophone artist stops). They may be coming to a town near you! (I heard from my San Francisco friends that the crowd wasn't as crazy there in case that puts you off)



Féfé
Moving on to rap and hip hop, I wasn't able to catch all of this artist's set but I really liked what I saw and would have liked to see more.




Georgio
Georgio's crowdfunded debut album was very much critically-acclaimed. His songs are quite deep and I feel like he could be the next MC Solaar. The second video below is also one of the most incredible music videos I've seen.




Shawn Jobin
I first encountered this Francophone rapper from Saskatchewan (I seriously didn't know that there were any Francophones out there) when I was working the door for the concert he was opening for during the Coup de Coeur Francophone festival. He had a great flow that made him stand out against the headliner and the rest of the festival staff there that night took notice too. Good for him because he got to open for Georgio for this festival. The second video from him is an activist song and offers some perspective from the Canadian Francophone communities outside Quebec.




Koriass
Unfortunately I didn't get to see him because he ended up cancelling his appearance. My roommate was really excited about him being in the festival and he has an interesting sound.




And that's all for now folks! As I said in my last post I have a link to a French playlist in Spotify in my signature. There's now nearly 700 pretty diverse songs and I add to it whenever I go on a French music binge. Also check out the festival page for more of the artists from this year and previous years. Happy listening!
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Re: sctroyenne: French, Irish, Spanish (new beginnings?)

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:18 pm

Good stuff, as always, Sctroyenne. FYI, the Chocolat and La Femme videos are not available in the USA.
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Re: sctroyenne: French, Irish, Spanish (new beginnings?)

Postby sctroyenne » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:56 pm

The major Montreal summer festival season is over with the end of Just For Laughs/Juste Pour Rire on Sunday. I did some volunteering for that festival and ended up on the French side of the festival (would have preferred actually doing the English side for free access to English shows since they're comics I've heard of but oh wel). From June with FrncoFolies to July with the Jazz Festival and Juste Poir Rire in addition to all the other events going on (fireworks competition on Wednesdays and Saturdays, MURAL festival, many many many cinema in the park events including an Italian series and a French series - there was even a documentary about Catalan activism in mostly Catalan, etc) it really is a fantastic time to visit. I'd highly recommend people plan on a visit next summer or future summers. I've recently created a little city guide for people I know who are visiting. If anyone ever wants a copy let me know and I can send it.

I plan on taking advantage of the rest of the summer weather however long it lasts with some good slow living. I've moved to Little Italy which is a great neighborhood near the Jean Talon Market (I hope to eat a lot of salad and fresh veggies). There are all kinds of cute cafes, bars, and restaurants including old Italian cafes where you'll hear a mix of French, English, and Italian. There's an Italian bookstore on St Laurent and an Italian festival coming up in a few days. There are also vestiges of the Latin American community here as well.

I found myself socializing quite a bit in English lately and since I don't work regularly in an office or regularly consume media (no TV, no long commutes spent reading or listening to podcasts), I think my speaking is suffering a bit for it. I'll take advantage of the move to introduce some new habits and look for meetups and whatnot with more French speakers and I'll return to my neglected Anki deck to refresh some of my more advanced vocabulary and for some detailed pronunciation practice (my accent seems to not be what it was when I was practicing and speaking at work everyday). Just like in music you have to keep practicing and drilling - simply being in an immersion atmosphere doesn't magically make you better.

Speaking of music it's been fun learning the French version of musical terms. The anglophone world uses alphabetic notation with a moveable Do (whatever the base of the scale is would be Do) whereas in a lot of other places use a fixed Do (where Do always equals C). I drill it from time to time but it always takes me a while to remember if my teacher asks me to play a Sol. Rhythmic notation is referred to by the notes' appearance: a whole note is ronde, a half note is blanche, a quarter note is noire, and an eighth note is croche. When discussing a repeat my teacher pointed to the first ending and asked what it's called in English and when I said it was just called the first ending/second ending he said that was really practical (in French it would be la boîte de reprise). It wasn't until I started lessons that I realized I had no idea how to talk about music in French since it's a specialized topic. If I took up a completely new hobby I may learn all the terms in French without even knowing them in English.
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Re: sctroyenne: French, Irish, Spanish (new beginnings?)

Postby sctroyenne » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:50 pm

It's been another long hiatus for me. Still in Montreal and just submitted my application to stay another year on my working holiday visa! If you're between 18 and 35 and you're interested in doing the same, check out the program here: International Experience Canada. If you're from the US or another country that doesn't have a direct exchange through the government, you have to go through the Recognized Organization option (for the US it's run by SWAP on the Canadian side and they list partners on the US side - I used FROSCH Student Travel).

If the idea of living and working in Canada for at least a year whet your appetite, this next part might give you pause. We're currently in this phase of the year (and I'm more or less as pictured in my avatar though this past week I've been covering my face all the way up to my eyes):

Image

In case you need a bit of help deciphering Québécois:

Tim refers to Tim Hortons, bien sûr (*fun fact* Tim Hortons used to be Tim Horton's but since the apostrophe made it clear that the name was grammatically in English, they removed the apostrophe to make it simply a name in order to avoid problems in Quebec). I've also seen this meme with "dep" for "dépanneur" instead of "Tim".

Il y a gets reduced to y'a

This also features the use of "tu" as a general particle used in questions rather than referring to an actual person. You'll often hear "Tu veux-tu quelque chose?" (though I find that in rapid speech you often don't hear the initial tu and the particle tu gets reduced to just t' so you sometimes barely notice it). In this example there isn't even a tu subject (just "quelqu'un") so it really underscores how the tu is used as a particle.

It looks like this winter is going to be a bit more intense than last winter (which was relatively mild). I even got myself a second pair of boots for lighter days (which are also more fashionable) since I found that my all weather winter boots were a bit overkill for much of last winter but the last few weeks I've been using my tall ones for walking in large amounts of snow and in extreme cold. As many of you may know from the news (or from currently living through the conditions), we've been having an extreme cold snap since right after Christmas on the East Coast, the Midwest and almost all across Canada. I was actually outside for about a minute to take my trash out when the windchill was around -40° (C and F since it doesn't matter at that point). The porch and the trees were making creaking noises that made it sound like everything was about to snap in half. I have to say, though, as a California girl that properly dressed I can take being outside - just the inside of my noise feels weird when it freezes.

You can see here that people even still ride their bikes in this weather, even with a lot of snowfall (I've seen at least five riding past the cafe today):

Image Image

I don't think I'd want to live through this, though, if I weren't in a major city with plenty of things I need within walking distance and a good public transit system.

Since I've been "immersed" I've been pretty lazy about deliberate study which I'd like to change in the new year. I really felt my French was at its peak when I spent all day listening to French podcasts, regularly reviewing vocabulary and pronunciation, reading a lot of nonfiction and articles during my commutes, taking subject-matter courses and later working a second job in French. I have a lot more free time now (which I desperately needed after burning myself out working two jobs) but the paradox is all the free time makes me less disciplined. I no longer commute an hour to an hour and a half each way every day (even more if I went to classes or activities) but that time was valuable for me for reading, going through Irish courses, listening, reviewing Anki, etc. When I know my time is limited I'm really good at structuring what time I have.

Also, since I work from home now I've found that the way I use my electronic devices is different. I now associate my laptop with work so I never browse on it anymore. The only leisure activity I do on it now is watch videos/Netflix. I do the vast majority of my browsing on my phone now - some of my resources work well on mobile, others don't (including posting to this forum). I was great at using SRS Collector to clip vocabulary from articles I was reading before - it'd be fantastic if I had the same streamlined resource on my phone (could something maybe be set up through Evernote or with the iPhone Note app maybe?).

I used HelloTalk a lot when I had a job that had quite a bit of downtime but less so now. But being in an immersive environment I've discovered a new use: sorting possible matches by location, finding local partners and potentially meeting up. I've even looked for people elsewhere in Quebec to potentially give me a good excuse to go exploring the rest of Quebec (and French-speaking Canada outside Quebec). I also haven't played a lot with the Moments function - I'll have to see if that's any good. Browsing through partner lists I see quite a few that are making good use of it.

This year I'll also be looking for more ways to expand my circle - in the interest of language learning but also just to have circles of friends (hard to create as an adult out of school). I'm thinking of ways to keep track of people I've met and following up with contacting them since developing relationships as an adult takes more effort if you don't just happen to see the same people over and over again. It looks like articles on networking have a lot of good ideas for this (articles for just making friends aren't as structured).

I'll also be looking to write more - something I've always been trying to do more of. I have friends who will correct my writing though not sure how much they'd want to do. Hopefully I can find one or more friends/language partners who'd be interested in proofreading longer writing and more "academic"/argumentative/advanced writing (the kind needed at C1/C2 level - I'll likely need to take my French test again to renew my results since apparently C2 level deteriorates in the space of two years... :roll:).

And hopefully I'll be around here a bit more...at least before next summer!
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Some resources and Amélie subs2srs?

Postby sctroyenne » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:23 pm

Just following up with a few resources I've come across recently.

First, I went to an office Christmas party with karaoke where I discovered the song 1990 by legendary Quebec artist Jean Leloup. It could be a handy song for those of you still struggling with saying numbers like 90 and years that aren't in the 2000s:



With a bit of practice this meme will be you:

Image

If you're looking for good resources to learn Quebec French, this site Je Parle Québécois, intended for people who already speak "standard" French has a lot of great material. What's really useful is the video section with video clips taken from real media that have explanations and transcripts/subs. The video collection is also great for discovering Quebec film/TV and YouTube channels. Such as this show, Les Bobos, which is a bit of a Portlandia based in Montreal:



And if anyone is looking for a "curated" collection of articles in French check out my Pocket app link to my shared/favorited articles in my signature. I've chosen articles based on interesting vocabulary, insights into French/francophone society and culture, French views on American culture, and deep topics that can easily prompt some argumentative writing and speaking (good for exam prep). Taken from French, Canadian, African,and French expat media that have free articles or at least allow you to read a certain number of articles a month. There's some other miscellaneous stuff as well sometimes in English that's also of interest to language and culture.

Speaking of exam prep, another old resource which used to be recommended all the time I haven't seen mentioned much lately is Canal Académie. It has TONS of audio on all kinds of academic topics. There's a subscription fee that grants you access (can't remember if that comes with transcripts). There's also this Espace Apprendre area that will help with oral comprehension. Looking at it now (it's been a long time since I've browsed the site) it looks like this area might be free and it appears to have downloadable transcripts.

Lastly, I seem to remember at one time there being an Amélie subs2srs Anki deck that was available to download or that I had sent to me or something. Or maybe I was just trying to make one myself while following emk's instructions on HTLAL. I'm not finding any trace of it either on my computer/backup hard drives nor through searching the internet. It's kind of driving me crazy because I swear I remember it... Anyway, I've been looking for it because a friend who asked for French learning resources mentioned that it's her absolute favorite movie. I was shying away from some of the more technical tools to start her off with but since she loves Amelie so much I thought it would be worth it for her to start using Anki. If it rings a bell for anyone let me know! Otherwise I'll play with making a deck myself. Merci!
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Re: sctroyenne: French, Irish, Spanish (new beginnings?)

Postby Stelle » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:42 pm

Your log is *fantastic*. I grew up in Ontario, near the border, just an hour from Montreal. I've been to Montreal countless times. But I feel like I've never seen in the way that you see it. You're an excellent writer. If you ever write a book (about anything), sign me up for a copy.

Jean Leloup brings back memories! This song was huge the year that I graduated from high school:

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Re: sctroyenne: French, Irish, Spanish (new beginnings?)

Postby sctroyenne » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:03 pm

Stelle wrote:Your log is *fantastic*. I grew up in Ontario, near the border, just an hour from Montreal. I've been to Montreal countless times. But I feel like I've never seen in the way that you see it. You're an excellent writer. If you ever write a book (about anything), sign me up for a copy.


Hello neighbor! Thank you so much for that compliment! At some point I'll probably compile all of my Montreal tips and observations (though I and many others are conflicted about sharing how great it is and wanting to keep it a secret so the rent stays reasonable).

I think that Jean Leloup song was the first of his that I heard. It's really catchy!
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Re: sctroyenne: French, Irish, Spanish (new beginnings?)

Postby sctroyenne » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:21 am

We've been having weird weather - it's been a really warm February. Meanwhile Europe is freezing and random places that never get snow in California are getting snow. I'm currently enjoying the Quebec film festival the Rendez-vous du cinéma québécois. For a short time you can watch some of the short films that are part of the festival here at ici.tou.tv (at least I think you can, unless it's blocked outside of Canada). Just scroll down to the Rendez-vous section. Some even have subtitles.

I was talking to a volunteer who just arrived in Quebec from France. She was talking about the tendency towards tutoiement is really startling for her and I shared my story about being surprised to hear it from cashiers and whatnot. I had a little side job as a cashier and while I always stuck to vouvoiement because it was what I was used to I got tutoied quite a bit by customers. I also had my first encounter with some of the more strict francophones. It was a very young guy with lots of piercings who apparently thought I had greeted him with "Bonjour-hi" (I may have actually been saying Bonjour with this little nasal at the end discussed in this article which I think I do when saying just Bonjour by itself: «Salut-han, tu vas bien-han»: la mystérieuse histoire de cet étrange tic de langage). His eyes got all big and he asked me (in French), "Did you just say "Bonjour-hi?" And I said, "No, I just said Bonjour." The Montreal practice of merchants greeting customers with "Bonjour-hi" has been recently called into question so I guess he was out on the offensive.

As an aside, in other Quebec French news, the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council recently ruled that the word "fuck" is not a swear word in French radio broadcasts. In the broadcasts in question, the word was actually used non-censored in recordings of Anglophones using the word as a swear word. But Québécois have also incorporated the word into their own speech but it's not considered a strongly offensive word here. One person I was talking to mentioned Picasso and said, you know his paintings with the "visages tous fuckés" which was just hilarious to me. I also found in France bars and whatnot who would want to use English for its "cool factor" in signs and menu items would use English swear words in contexts we typically would find inappropriate in the Anglophone world since they don't grow up learning the word is taboo (and since they also consider swearing and vulgar language in a different way). And then there's the time I was at Carrefour in the middle of the day on a weekday doing my grocery shopping with the rest of the students and the retirees and the store was playing the uncensored version of Akon and Snoop Dogg's "I Wanna 'Love' You" which was a very surreal moment....

At the job I was about 95-99% using French even with customers I could tell were Anglophone (and could maybe tell I was Anglophone...at least the ones who lived here). Even though the French was basic transactional French I did find that hearing it and using it all day put my brain in French mode and so my thoughts were more in French and I feel I expressed myself better and more fluidly in French off the job as well. It really goes to show the importance of warming up and priming the mind for language even at higher levels of fluency. Hoping to find a job soon where I can use more varied French though...
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Re: sctroyenne: French, Irish, Spanish (new beginnings?)

Postby DaveBee » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:29 am

sctroyenne wrote:I also found in France bars and whatnot who would want to use English for its "cool factor" in signs and menu items
I was watching a french Booktuber the other day, and I noticed that she had an english language tattoo. I supposed this is the same thing as the chinese/japanese tattoos anglophones sometimes go for.
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