Ani's 2018 Log

[MamaPata]

As a side note, I am pretty sure you get an hour's prep for the C1 oral?

[aaleks]

.

*this link to a thread where an English learner posted his works while preparing to a C2 exam https://efl-forum.ru/boards/viewtopic.p ... 009#p33029

OMG. I’m never going to be C2 in anything. His writing was super high level.

I didn’t read the whole thread, but it’s kinda hilarious to see other Russians questioning his vocabulary choices. The words that were perhaps “too obscure” are completely normal for an educated native speaker.

There, on the page I gave the link to, is his exam result. He passed it, of course. I had no doubt that he would. The overall result is great but he got only C for his writing. At first I thought it was B but in fact it's the border line of B and C. I cannot know why it's so but his choice of words might be one of the reasons, I guess. But I might be wrong of course, I myself wouldn't get even a bottom line C in that exam

Sorry for the off-topic.

[Ani]

I might be wrong but as I understand it the exams were designed in the first place as some standard for university applicants or job requirements - this is why they are so academic. And this is one of the reasons why I'm not so eager to take one of them. I just don't want to spend time on writing essays*, or rehearsing speaking topics, about the things I know little to nothing, or just not enough to give a speech. I would've needed time to prepare to such an exam had I taken it in my native tongue because those topics are definitely not something I'm speaking about on a daily basis.

*this link to a thread where an English learner posted his works while preparing to a C2 exam https://efl-forum.ru/boards/viewtopic.p ... 009#p33029

That guy is pretty high level. Sentences that kind to make me tired

One of the things though is that I *do* have complex discussions on super obscure topics all the time and maybe a lot of my frustration comes from not being able to do that in French. A couple nights ago DH and I had a.. debate.. about whether on average women were less capable of engineering because of their disinclination to analytical reasoning. I could barely structure my arguments in my native language so I don't know why I'm upset I couldn't do it in French but "speaking French" to me means being able to defend my position, quickly cite books or research that I've read, calculate/discuss statics and probabilities... I'm such a long way away from that.

... I do feel pretty good about my passive skills...
Speaking and writing are definitely my areas of concern...

So you only have 2 skills to work on rather than 4 - that's great!
Do you have deadlines for them?

No deadlines. I've had deadlines in the past that came and went and with complete honesty I don't know how I could set deadlines right now. For one, improving speaking feels like taming a mythical breast. I have no idea how I got to the level I have and I have no idea the level of difficulty I'll face in getting better. I think I have a grasp on what to do, but not how long it will take. Also, while I do pretty much study French every day, my higher priority items have less predictable demands for time. I can't drop everything to meet a deadline of I were behind schedule.
I did book a 10 lesson package with a new tutor who assigns papers for homework so it should be a good stretch and I can write more without worrying about repeating mistakes.

Even the can do questions may need a second opinion.

That's great info, thanks. I'll look into a better assessment, maybe after i use my current lesson package.

I didn’t read the whole thread, but it’s kinda hilarious to see other Russians questioning his vocabulary choices. The words that were perhaps “too obscure” are completely normal for an educated native speaker.

Yeah that you kind of intimidating, seeing how high level his writing is and still that he got mid level marks for it. Who knows how he performed day-of and he does have some incongruencies in register but still..

I'd just like to remind you that you do many things quite well, and you're awesome.

Thank you

As a side note, I am pretty sure you get an hour's prep for the C1 oral?

Oh that helps a little I guess.
And as another side note, gosh that exam must be exhausting. I'm not in accustomed of being tested all day anymore. I think I'd collapse.

They should post the video on YT soon. They already have put up some.

That's great. I'm going to keep an eye for it.

[Ani]

I have like three days to frantically write out conjugation tables, read through special cases and triggers for the subjunctive.. And do those last 12 units of FSI.. it should only take about 30 hours.....

Could you please explain shortly how do you work with the FSI (FSI French Basic Course?)? Is it worth starting? I plan to improve my French someday

Well, don't do what I did I think the key to FSI is doing at the right stage. I started very early and ended up doing lessons ~10x each trying to learn everything, rhythm, intonation, etc etc. About a year and a half ago I tried again and got through a bunch but I was still overdoing everything and using it as writing practice. I copied basically everything from the first 7 units for spelling improvement. At that point I needed the text because I'd miss words from the dialogue. I think if I had just let myself go faster all would have been well.
Now I just tried again this week and I think FSI might be great for activation, but a lot of the units are very easy. I don't need the manual anymore because my listening is strong enough so I will probably just listen once through everything that's left. I think Systematiker did a very fast pass through FSI last year or the year before and said it was very helpful for activation.

[eido]

"The burden of proof is on the person making the claim" run through Google Translate gives me "Le fardeau de la preuve incombe à celui qui présente la demande." I have no idea if that's anywhere near correct French but I bet you'd do an adequate job without Google.

I found from Linguee: "La charge de la preuve à cet égard incombe à la personne qui affirme être indigente." Different words in English, but similar structure.

[Ani]

Well I've decided on "happiness through consumerism".

I had to stop by a book store for a kid today and took a pass through the langage books. There was an irresistible copy of Harrius Potter (Latin) on the shelf.

I also got my copy of Sputnik 1 textbook & workbook today. I decided a few days ago that maybe my problem with Russian is that I haven't bought anything shiny and fun. They look pretty good. Somewhat easy in the beginning so it's great to see I did actually learn something last year, but plenty new I'm sure. I did read a review that it was hard to use without a text for corrections, but there seems also to be some kind of exercise with corrections on the website so I'm not sure.
One thing really nice about the workbook is that it teaches and uses cursive all throughout so it will be really good practice.

[smallwhite]

... no way I could have spoken for 10 minutes... on the socioeconomic effects of environmental policies...

... "speaking French" to me means being able to defend my position, quickly cite books or research that I've read, calculate/discuss statics and probabilities...

... I *do* have complex discussions on super obscure topics all the time and maybe a lot of my frustration comes from not being able to do that in French...

... I'm not in accustomed of being tested all day anymore...

I see you know exactly what you want to achieve and what you need to work on. The visibility is better on your mountain that on a lot of ours. Looking forward to seeing you successfully completing these tasks, working on past papers and whatnot.

[cjareck]

Well, don't do what I did I think the key to FSI is doing at the right stage. I started very early and ended up doing lessons ~10x each trying to learn everything, rhythm, intonation, etc etc. About a year and a half ago I tried again and got through a bunch but I was still overdoing everything and using it as writing practice. I copied basically everything from the first 7 units for spelling improvement. At that point I needed the text because I'd miss words from the dialogue. I think if I had just let myself go faster all would have been well.
Now I just tried again this week and I think FSI might be great for activation, but a lot of the units are very easy. I don't need the manual anymore because my listening is strong enough so I will probably just listen once through everything that's left. I think Systematiker did a very fast pass through FSI last year or the year before and said it was very helpful for activation.

OK. Thanks for the reply. At first, I was doing FSI Hebrew just by listening to the lessons a few times (maybe up to ten) but I didn't learn much that way. Now I put each drill into Anki and when I listened to the old lessons I really knew what was going on So it activated me also

By the way, I am impressed by your homeschooling of your kids and, even more, for the ability to teach them a foreign language. I am trying to teach my oldest daughter (11) English, but it is always a disaster...

[Ani]

By the way, I am impressed by your homeschooling of your kids and, even more, for the ability to teach them a foreign language. I am trying to teach my oldest daughter (11) English, but it is always a disaster...

Oh thanks. The jury's still out on whether I'm actually succeeding with any of them It's really hard to teach a child a language if you start after age 3 as far as I've seen. That's not to be discouraging, just acknowledging a tough task. The benefits are huge though as you obviously know, even from the memory & perseverance standpoints.

[aaleks]

I might be wrong but as I understand it the exams were designed in the first place as some standard for university applicants or job requirements - this is why they are so academic. And this is one of the reasons why I'm not so eager to take one of them. I just don't want to spend time on writing essays*, or rehearsing speaking topics, about the things I know little to nothing, or just not enough to give a speech. I would've needed time to prepare to such an exam had I taken it in my native tongue because those topics are definitely not something I'm speaking about on a daily basis.

*this link to a thread where an English learner posted his works while preparing to a C2 exam https://efl-forum.ru/boards/viewtopic.p ... 009#p33029

That guy is pretty high level. Sentences that kind to make me tired

One of the things though is that I *do* have complex discussions on super obscure topics all the time and maybe a lot of my frustration comes from not being able to do that in French. A couple nights ago DH and I had a.. debate.. about whether on average women were less capable of engineering because of their disinclination to analytical reasoning. I could barely structure my arguments in my native language so I don't know why I'm upset I couldn't do it in French but "speaking French" to me means being able to defend my position, quickly cite books or research that I've read, calculate/discuss statics and probabilities... I'm such a long way away from that.

My problem with the topics is not their obscurity but that they reminds my school essays when you had to write something about something you were either not really interested in or just didn't want to share your real opinion. For example, the classical for Russian schools (at least it was when I was in school) essay "Что такое счастье?"/"What is happiness?". I remember I wrote that it's hard to tell because for each person happiness means different things. According to our teacher back then this was a wrong answer . In other words, I just don't like to be forced to speak about something otherwise I would not.

At the same time the obscurity of the topics is the problem because some of them sounds to me like "The influence of the full moon on the spawning of penguins in the African desert."
So even though I prefer learning language(s) on my own and the way I like if one day I have to take a language exam I would considering to hire a tutor who's familiar with the exam's format or at least work through a prep book(s) from cover to cover.

I couldn't do it in French but "speaking French" to me means being able to defend my position, quickly cite books or research that I've read, calculate/discuss statics and probabilities... I'm such a long way away from that.

Well, I often feel a bit dumb when I'm writing something in English . Let alone cultural differences*, even though I don't see that there are many of them tbh but still I feel the need to think and rethink, and rewrite, and reread, and delete eventually what I have written . There's really a lot to learn besides the language itself. I wish I could write in English as I do, or did**, it in Russian.

*I hope I didn't write something offensive in this post. I'm sorry if I did.
**English has affected my Russian writing a bit, so now it's worth than it used to be.