Ani's 2018 Log

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Ani
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Re: Ani's 2018 Log

Postby Ani » Thu May 24, 2018 2:21 am

aaleks wrote:
First off all I don't know any secret sauce for getting native like writing :) . This is just my experience and I'm definitely not an expert. The thing is I do not understand grammar the way it's written in grammar/textbooks. And honestly I can recall only a couple weekends (literally) when I was studying grammar in a kind of proper way aka sitting behind a desk and doing grammar exercises. That was about one and a half year ago when I tried to write in English the first time and found out that I need to learn some grammar because I was writing things like "I going" (without am, are, is), etc. I can't remember how much time I've spend on studying grammar that way but I'm afraid that it's hardly been more than a couple week in the past 6 years.

I think I've learned a lot more grammar/about grammar through input and noticing things. Probably if I had paid enough attention to what I read in regard to grammar since the beginning I would have known that I need to put "be" before "-ing" words in that context or that "have/has" goes after "would/could/should" in "would have been" etc. But all so-called phrasal verbs and the like, as well as irregular verbs: go/went/gone, do/did/done, etc. I learned from exposure.

If I were to do it all over again I would've worked only on the grammar topics I had not understood, and tried to fill the gaps like that one with "I going".

I'm not sure that my way of studying is really an effective one. (tbh I think it is not) Probably people who can learn grammar through textbook do the same a lot faster. So no, I do not recommend anything I just share my experience :)


I love that you can share and talk about the process because you are still in the middle of it. I'm happy to have these discussions with you :) I'm going to try a bunch of stuff (per these last couple pages of log) and see where they get me. Hopefully I will see a good improvement. If you wanted to try writing without checking, putting it away, checking it yourself and then passing it off to someone for final edit, I'd be happy to go over your writing for your if that would help. I might try to do that myself with an italki tutor later this summer after I've gotten through the materials I'm planning (for lack of access to friendly native speaker.. I could equally try and make some French friends I guess). As always, I love your updates :)


=====

The weather has been lovely here and we've been outside quite a bit the last couple days. It is a nice change from being stuck inside, sick in bed. I went over to a friend's house today and saw she had everything labeled in Russian :)
I realized we are getting close to the end of May and close to the end of the first month of the super challenge. I'm doing fine on the film portion for each language, behind on all the reading. Not unexpected for Russian and Icelandic, but no excuses for French. Although French won't be a big deal to catch up so I'm making a point of that today. I'll plan to post my tally at the end of the month.
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aaleks
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Re: Ani's 2018 Log

Postby aaleks » Thu May 24, 2018 10:12 am

Ani wrote:
aaleks wrote:
First off all I don't know any secret sauce for getting native like writing :) . This is just my experience and I'm definitely not an expert. The thing is I do not understand grammar the way it's written in grammar/textbooks. And honestly I can recall only a couple weekends (literally) when I was studying grammar in a kind of proper way aka sitting behind a desk and doing grammar exercises. That was about one and a half year ago when I tried to write in English the first time and found out that I need to learn some grammar because I was writing things like "I going" (without am, are, is), etc. I can't remember how much time I've spend on studying grammar that way but I'm afraid that it's hardly been more than a couple week in the past 6 years.

I think I've learned a lot more grammar/about grammar through input and noticing things. Probably if I had paid enough attention to what I read in regard to grammar since the beginning I would have known that I need to put "be" before "-ing" words in that context or that "have/has" goes after "would/could/should" in "would have been" etc. But all so-called phrasal verbs and the like, as well as irregular verbs: go/went/gone, do/did/done, etc. I learned from exposure.

If I were to do it all over again I would've worked only on the grammar topics I had not understood, and tried to fill the gaps like that one with "I going".

I'm not sure that my way of studying is really an effective one. (tbh I think it is not) Probably people who can learn grammar through textbook do the same a lot faster. So no, I do not recommend anything I just share my experience :)


I love that you can share and talk about the process because you are still in the middle of it. I'm happy to have these discussions with you :) I'm going to try a bunch of stuff (per these last couple pages of log) and see where they get me. Hopefully I will see a good improvement. If you wanted to try writing without checking, putting it away, checking it yourself and then passing it off to someone for final edit, I'd be happy to go over your writing for your if that would help. I might try to do that myself with an italki tutor later this summer after I've gotten through the materials I'm planning (for lack of access to friendly native speaker.. I could equally try and make some French friends I guess). As always, I love your updates :)


Thank you :) ! We'll see how it'll go :) .
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Ani
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Re: Ani's 2018 Log

Postby Ani » Sat May 26, 2018 1:54 am

Trying to log hours and pages for SC. Life isn't overly cooperative but I'll get there. Can't take my eyes off the one year old for a second. My mom comes to visit on Monday which means I'll get some help and some free time, but also I'll need to be extra vigilant that Evan gets French exposure.

FR: Only made it one more lesson in Mauger. Got 3 books going in French +1 audio book. Nothing has captivated me yet so it feels like a slog. Hopefully I'll get into one of them really soon and get pulled along.

RU: Thought I'd take a stab at MT Russian. Not sure how I feel about it yet but as long as I do something every day it is good enough for right now. Besides a half super challenge, I really have no idea what my goals are for this language right now. I'm hoping if I stick it out, eventually it will feel easy and fun.

IS: Another unit complete in Icelandic Onlîne survival. I'm not really sure why asking someone if they want to go swimming in the pool or hot tub and getting a doctor's note to excuse you from work are survival situations but they're definitely more interesting than "Où est la fontaine Saint-Michel?"
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Soffía
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Re: Ani's 2018 Log

Postby Soffía » Sat May 26, 2018 11:49 am

Ani wrote:IS: Another unit complete in Icelandic Onlîne survival. I'm not really sure why asking someone if they want to go swimming in the pool or hot tub and getting a doctor's note to excuse you from work are survival situations but they're definitely more interesting than "Où est la fontaine Saint-Michel?"


One of the things I love about Icelandic Online is how culturally specific it is! Going to the pool and sitting in the hot tub is such an Icelandic thing to do, it's practically a survival situation. Isn't one of the early episodes of Viltu læra íslensku about a trip to the pool as well?

However I will concede that I didn't in any sense need to know the term for "waterfall abseiling" in Icelandic, but thanks to Icelandic Online, I will never be able to forget it...
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Ani
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Re: Ani's 2018 Log

Postby Ani » Sun May 27, 2018 5:29 am

Soffía wrote:
One of the things I love about Icelandic Online is how culturally specific it is! Going to the pool and sitting in the hot tub is such an Icelandic thing to do, it's practically a survival situation. Isn't one of the early episodes of Viltu læra íslensku about a trip to the pool as well?

However I will concede that I didn't in any sense need to know the term for "waterfall abseiling" in Icelandic, but thanks to Icelandic Online, I will never be able to forget it...


I do love the tour of Iceland you get through these courses and all the Icelandic specific stuff. I guess if *I* go to Iceland I need "hot springs", not hot tub. I think Ewa and Daniel are doing it wrong. As an aside, someone should tell Ewa that sick people don't put on full makeup with fake eyelashes to go to the Dr. "::Cough cough:: I need a note to get out of work, see how have a cough and a headache" Not super convincing, girlie. :)

I had no idea what waterfall abseiling was but now I need to do that. Holy smokes that looks fun. Is it warm enough for that in Iceland? I kind of assumed the climate was similar to Alaska but that would be a very unpleasant thing to do here.

===
FR: Going through Mauger, I noticed the uses of [a] and [ɑ], further I started to notice [ø] and [ə]... I'm super confused because I think they're the same sounds? Tu as and il a have the same/a/ sound right? But they're different in the book. And deux and que ... The book says ø and ə respectively but I don't hear a difference, but I notice my tongue is in a different place when I say them in isolation. So is my tongue at fault and they are the same sounds, or are they different sounds I can't hear? I'm super confused. My French is broken and I've just regressed to A0 over night, uggh :(

RU: This language just won't stick. Now that I have Icelandic to compare it to, I can see how ridiculous Russian is with its refusal to cooperate. My Icelandic vocabulary is like 3x my Russian in like .. what.. less than an 8th of the study time? I made up that percentage.. but seriously. Ufft.. anyway, I watched a few hours of shows to make sure I have my SC hours. At least I like the sound of Russian.

IS: Sooo close to finishing Survival.. just a few more lessons to get through.
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reineke
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Re: Ani's 2018 Log

Postby reineke » Sun May 27, 2018 6:10 am

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Re: Ani's 2018 Log

Postby Ani » Sun May 27, 2018 6:28 am

Ok so like that video is how I move my mouth/tongue like I said above, and I can hear it when she exaggerates but... When you're chopping up words.. it just seems like such a small difference.. and then I found this:
https://www.podcastfrancaisfacile.com/p ... ncais.html
And a/ɑ are on the same line and ø/ə and on their line, although I never would have thought deux And mercredi were the same vowel but when he pronounces it I can kind of believe it.
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reineke
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Re: Ani's 2018 Log

Postby reineke » Sun May 27, 2018 6:44 am

A "que" that rhymes with deux would make for an embarrassing pronunciation error.

[a] and [ɑ]

"In reality, however, in many varieties of the French spoken in Paris and most parts of Belgium, /ɑ/ is now merged with /a/, "

From a "book".
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Ani
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Re: Ani's 2018 Log

Postby Ani » Sun May 27, 2018 7:58 am

reineke wrote:A "que" that rhymes with deux would make for an embarrassing pronunciation error.


Lol Yes this is true... I'm not worried about making that error as rhyming the other direction with /ə/, which just makes "de" I guess. I just spent like 30 minutes touching my face while looking in a mirror saying all the ø and ə words I could think of and I think I have it sorted out now. Auditory processing is hard.


[a] and [ɑ]

"In reality, however, in many varieties of the French spoken in Paris and most parts of Belgium, /ɑ/ is now merged with /a/, "

From a "book".

Ahh.. well that explains that :) That was the original problem, indeed.

Thank you very much :)
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Ani
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Re: Ani's 2018 Log

Postby Ani » Mon May 28, 2018 5:32 am

Morgana wrote:I have found, and continue to find, the vowel diagram quite useful. (Be sure to note the unrounded-rounded pairs.) Maybe you find it useful, maybe you don’t, but I can’t in good conscience not mention it when one is learning some IPA :)


Oh that's neat thanks. That's a lot like the chart I use from the LIPS program with my son for auditory processing. I think studying something like that would be super overwhelming for someone like me, but it's nice to have.
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