An opera fan's log - French, German, Italian, etc

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Deinonysus
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Re: An opera fan's language log - working on French

Postby Deinonysus » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:17 pm

Lyrics to "Après un rêve" ("After a dream")

Dans un sommeil que charmait ton image
Je rêvais le bonheur, ardent mirage,
Tes yeux étaient plus doux, ta voix pure et sonore,
Tu rayonnais comme un ciel éclairé par l'aurore;

Tu m'appelais et je quittais la terre
Pour m'enfuir avec toi vers la lumière,
Les cieux pour nous entr'ouvraient leurs nues,
Splendeurs inconnues, lueurs divines entrevues,

Hélas! Hélas! triste réveil des songes
Je t'appelle, ô nuit, rends moi tes mensonges,
Reviens, reviens radieuse,
Reviens ô nuit mystérieuse!

My best attempt at a fairly literal translation:

In a slumber that enchanted (charmed) your image,
I dreamed of the happiness, ardent mirage,
Your eyes were sweeter, your voice pure and loud (sonorous),
You were radiant (lit. you radiated) like a sky brightened by the dawn.

You called to me, and I left the earth
To flee with you towards the light.
The skies parted their clouds slightly for us,
Unknown splendors, divine glows glimpsed.

Alas! Alas! Sad awakening of dreams,
I call upon you, oh night, give me your lies,
Return, return, radiant one,
Return, oh mysterious night.

Words I had to look up

  • rayonner - to radiate
  • éclairer - to brighten (I thought it meant to clear at first glance). TIL, "éclair" means a flash or lightning, and the pastry was named because you want to eat it in a flash.
  • nue - poetic abbreviation of nuage (cloud). Homogram with the word for "nude".
  • entrouvrir - to half-open or leave ajar
  • lueur - glow or glimmers
  • entrevoir - to glimpse (not to be confused with un entrevue which is an interview, a synonym of entretien, I think)
  • songe - dream (literary)

As a side note, I never really thought about this but bonheur (happiness) is masculine and doesn't end in "e", but heure does end with an "e" and is feminine.

Assessment

This was a really terrific exercise! I have sung this mélodie many times, but after going over it word by word and really parsing out the grammar, I have a much better understanding of it, and I'm having a much easier time remembering the order of the lines. I'm definitely looking forward to doing this with more of my favorite songs and arias.

And what a terrific poem! It's not even the original; it's apparently a loose translation of an Italian poem.

Here's my favorite recording of it:
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Re: An opera fan's language log - working on French

Postby Josquin » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:10 pm

Deinonysus wrote:I'll have to check out Gerhaher and Appl.

If you really do, here are some good points to start (admittedly, it's more Lied than opera, but I hope you like it nevertheless):

Christian Gerhaher in Wagner's Tannhäuser



Christian Gerhaher with Schumanns "Liederkreis nach Eichendorff", op. 39



Benjamin Appl with Schubert's "Erlkönig"



Benjamin Appl with Schubert's "Der Lindenbaum" from "Winterreise"



Bonus track: Rainer Trost with Schubert's "Der Zwerg"



Enjoy! :)
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Re: An opera fan's language log - working on French

Postby Deinonysus » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:45 am

Josquin wrote:
Deinonysus wrote:I'll have to check out Gerhaher and Appl.

If you really do, here are some good points to start (admittedly, it's more Lied than opera, but I hope you like it nevertheless):

Christian Gerhaher in Wagner's Tannhäuser

...

Christian Gerhaher with Schumanns "Liederkreis nach Eichendorff", op. 39

...

Benjamin Appl with Schubert's "Erlkönig"

...

Benjamin Appl with Schubert's "Der Lindenbaum" from "Winterreise"

...

Bonus track: Rainer Trost with Schubert's "Der Zwerg"

...

Enjoy! :)


Nice! They're all great singers. Christian Gerhaher is hypnotically soothing. He reminds me of a non-countertenor Andreas Scholl. And great selections, "O du mein holder Abendstern", "Erlkönig", and "der Lindenbaum" are some of my favorites!

I can't believe I've never heard of der Zwerg before! I will have to sing it one of these days, it sounds very fun!
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Re: An opera fan's language log - working on French

Postby Deinonysus » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:49 pm

Don José's flower aria from Carmen

La fleur que tu m'avais jetée,
Dans ma prison m'était restée.
Flétrie et sèche, cette fleur
Gardait toujours sa douce odeur;

Et pendent des heures entières,
Sur mes yeux, fermant mes paupières,
De cette odeur je m'enivrais
Et dans la nuit je te voyais!

Je me prenais à te maudire,
À te détester, à me dire :
Pourquoi faut-il que le destin
L'ait mise là sur mon chemin?

Puis je m'accusais de blasphème,
Et je ne sentais en moi-même,
Je ne sentais qu'un seul désir,
Un seul désir, un seul espoir:

Te revoir, ô Carmen, oui, te revoir!
Car tu n'avais eu qu'à paraître,
Qu'à jeter un regard sur moi,
Pour t'emparer de tout mon être,

Ô ma Carmen!
Et j'étais une chose à toi
Carmen, je t'aime!

My best attempt at a fairly literal translation:

The flower that you threw me
Stayed with me in my prison.
Withered and dry, this flower
Always kept its sweet scent;

And for entire hours,
Over my eyes, closing my lids,
I was intoxicated by this scent
And in the night, I saw you.

I took to cursing you,
To detesting you, to asking myself,
Why must fate have
Placed her there in my path?

Then, I accused myself of blasphemy,
And I felt nothing in myself,
I felt nothing but a sole desire,
A sole desire, a sole hope:

To see you again, oh Carmen, to see you again!
Because you had nothing but to appear to me,
To throw a glance at me,
To seize control of all my being,

Oh my Carmen!
And I have been a thing of yours,
Carmen, I love you!

Words I had to look up
  • Flétrir - to wither
  • Une paupière - an eyelid
  • S'enivrer - To get drunk
  • Maudire - To curse. Makes sense, like "mal dire"
  • Se prendre à - To start, lit. to take to (like English "I took to drinking")
  • S'emparer - To seize or take over. Comes from the same root as "empire".

Here's my favorite performance of it:



Assessment
This is quite the aria, very intense! In hindsight, memorizing a song/aria a day was a bit to much. I think a better goal would be to memorize about 8 lines a day.

In terms of other materials, I've been keeping up with all of my courses that I do daily, but I still haven't made a ton of progress on reading or viewing material. I did finish an episode of Chef's Table France today that I had started several weeks ago. I think I am getting a lot more of speech than I was when I started watching France24 every day, even despite the chef's mumbling and what could have been a slight regional accent. So that's progress!
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Re: An opera fan's language log - working on French

Postby Deinonysus » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:33 pm

I wanted to mainly post in English so that people could follow my progress, but I was inspired by Jim's French log and I think I should post a bit in French as well for the practice. My compromise is that my main updates will be in English, but I will also post some inane musings in French.

Et bien sûre, si quelqu'un m’écrit en français, je vais répondre en français. I will also do my best to respond in German or Esperanto too if anyone asks, although they're both rusty. I can probably still put together some very basic sentences in Icelandic, but I'm not so sure about Italian and Spanish, and I can't even type in Japanese or Hebrew so those are out.

Alors, j'ai eu un rêve très bizarre hier. Après d'avoir éteint mon réveil, j'ai fermé les yeux pendant un instant. J'étais parmi une groupe de voleurs qui voulaient prendre les fleurs et arbres d'un parking. Mais, nous étions coincés ! C'était un piège, et les policiers nous appréhendaient. Dans la prison, je sortais du foyer, et j'entrais dans la cabane dans les arbres pour téléphoner ma femme. C'était très dur de lui dire de mes troubles, mais heureusement, je réveillais. Malheureusement, J'avais dormi une heure trop !

Je ne sais pas si j'ai utilisé le bon temps. L'imparfait me semblait correct, mais peut-être que je me suis trompé.
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Re: An opera fan's language log - working on French

Postby Deinonysus » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:00 pm

Valentin's aria from Gounod's Faust

My favorite performance, by Michel Dens:


Avant de quitter ces lieux,
Sol natal de mes aïeux,
A toi, Seigneur et roi des cieux,
Ma sœur je confie !

Daigne de tout danger,
Toujours, toujours la protéger !
Cette sœur si chérie,
Daigne de tout danger,
La protéger, daigne la protéger de tout danger !

Délivré d'une triste pensée,
J'irai chercher la gloire,
La gloire au sein des ennemies,
Le premier, le plus brave
Au fort de la mêlée !
J'irai combattre pour mon pays!

Et si vers lui dieu me rappelle,
Je veillerais sur toi fidèle,
Ô Marguerite!

Avant de quitter ces lieux,
Sol natal de mes aïeux,
A toi, Seigneur et roi des cieux,
Ma sœur je confie !

Ô roi des cieux, jette les yeux !
Protège Marguerite, ô roi des cieux!

My best attempt at a fairly literal translation:

Before leaving these lands,
Native soil of my forefathers,
To you, Lord and king of the heavens,
I entrust my sister.

Deign from all danger
Always, always to protect her!
This sister so dear,
Deign from all danger
To protect her, deign to protect her from all danger!

Delivered from a sad thought,
I will go to search for glory,
Glory in the midst of the enemies,
The first, the bravest
In the thick of the battle,
I will fight for my country!

And if towards him God calls me back,
I will watch over you faithfully,
Oh Marguerite!

Before leaving these lands,
Native soil of my forefathers,
To you, Lord and king of the skies,
I entrust my sister.

Oh king of the heavens, throw down your gaze,
Protect Marguerite, oh king of the heavens!

Words I had to look up (now or when I first learned this)
  • aïeux - ancesters, grandfathers. Singular - aïeul
  • confier - to entrust or confide
  • daigner - to deign (cognate)
  • au sein de - in the midst of (lit. in the breast of)
  • veiller sur qqn - to watch over someone

Assessment
This was the first French aria I ever learned, and I memorized it phonetically years ago. I think I had a general idea of what it meant, but I had no grasp of the grammar so I really only had a surface understanding.

Looking back at it, I definitely mislearned a few things. For example, in the last two lines, I pronounced the informal "jette" and "protège" as though they were the formal "jettez" and "protégez". However, you always use the informal pronoun when talking to God, at least in the languages I'm familiar with. For example, in the King James Bible, which was written when English still kept the distinction between the informal "thou" or "thee" and the formal "ye" or "you", it's "hallowed be thy name", not "hallowed be your name".

Other Language Learning updates
I switched from Memrise to the Clozemaster fluency fast track. I'm really not sure which one I prefer, but I like that Clozemaster gets to the advanced stuff more quickly. One thing I don't like is that it won't take alternative acceptible answers so you just need to anticipate when it could be one of a couple of things and then switch to the multiple choice option.

I also started following some French YouTubers. I'm finding them much more difficult to follow than the French news, so that's probably a good sign that I should be listening to them more.

Edit: I accidentally two lines
Last edited by Deinonysus on Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An opera fan's language log - working on French

Postby Systematiker » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:01 pm

Deinonysus wrote:However, you always use the informal pronoun when talking to God, at least in the languages I'm familiar with. For example, in the King James Bible, which was written when English still kept the distinction between the informal "thou" or "thee" and the formal "ye" or "you", it's "hallowed be thy name", not "hallowed be your name".


Fun fact, the King James Bible actually uses these in an idiosyncratic manner. You’ll get, say, disciples talking to Jesus saying “thou” and he’ll reply with “you” - the translators actually used “thou” and “you” to reflect the singular and plural you in Greek in the underlying text (in the NT at least, I don’t remember if it’s the same in the OT for sure). I mean, you’re right about the use of the informal with God across many languages, but that’s why it switches back and forth in the rest of the Bible, depending on who is talking and who is being addressed.

I’m enjoying your log! Especially much of the music, though more as a fan of opera than one who could sing it.


Edit: I’m not sure why it’s not quoting and I’m on my phone and can’t fix it. Sorry.
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Re: An opera fan's language log - working on French

Postby Deinonysus » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:16 pm

Systematiker wrote:
Deinonysus wrote:However, you always use the informal pronoun when talking to God, at least in the languages I'm familiar with. For example, in the King James Bible, which was written when English still kept the distinction between the informal "thou" or "thee" and the formal "ye" or "you", it's "hallowed be thy name", not "hallowed be your name".


Fun fact, the King James Bible actually uses these in an idiosyncratic manner. You’ll get, say, disciples talking to Jesus saying “thou” and he’ll reply with “you” - the translators actually used “thou” and “you” to reflect the singular and plural you in Greek in the underlying text (in the NT at least, I don’t remember if it’s the same in the OT for sure). I mean, you’re right about the use of the informal with God across many languages, but that’s why it switches back and forth in the rest of the Bible, depending on who is talking and who is being addressed.

I’m enjoying your log! Especially much of the music, though more as a fan of opera than one who could sing it.


Edit: I’m not sure why it’s not quoting and I’m on my phone and can’t fix it. Sorry.

Interesting! That makes sense that it would be more about preserving the pronoun number, and the level of formality was just incidental. Thanks for the clarification! Now that I think about it, I don't remember there being a distinction between formal and informal pronouns in Modern Hebrew, just distinctions for number and gender. But I never got very advanced, and Biblical Hebrew is probably a whole other beast.

Glad you're enjoying the log!

By the way, the reason the quote broke is that you used a backtick end quote instead of a regular quote, probably automatic formatting from your phone.
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Re: An opera fan's language log - working on French

Postby Deinonysus » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:36 pm

Débussy - Beau Soir

My favorite performance:

Pierre Bernac advised Francis Poulenc on writing for the voice, and I absolutely love their recordings with Bernac singing and Poulenc at the piano (with Poulenc's own compositions as well as plenty of classics by other French composers). Bernac's voice is very strange but absolutely compelling. He reminds me a lot of Peter Pears, come to think of it.

The text
Lorsque au soleil couchant les rivières sont roses
Et qu'un tiède frisson court sur les champs de blé,
Un conseil d'être heureux semble sortir des choses,
Et monter vers le cœur troublé.

Un conseil de goûter les charmes d'être au monde
Cepandant qu'on est jeune et que le soir est beau,
Car nous nous en allon, comme s'en va cette onde,
Elle à la mer, nous au tombeau

My best fairly literal translation
When in the reclining sun the rivers are pink
And a tepid shiver runs over the fields of wheat,
Advice to be happy seems to go out of things
And rise toward the troubled heart

Advice to taste the charms of being in the world
While one is young and the evening is beautiful,
Because we are going, as this wave is going,
It to the sea, we to the grave.

Words I had to look up
tiède - Tepid, lukewarm
frisson - Shiver, thrill
blé - Wheat
cependant que- This seems to have a ton of meanings. "While" seems to fit best here.

Assessment
This poem is more about word painting than a story or exposition, so I don't think it translates as well as the other songs and arias I've posted about.

Other Language Learning Updates
I've been cheating on French a little bit and redoing the beginning lessons of Duolingo Italian. Don't tell anyone!

I'm also taking a bit of an Anglophone reading break to read A Wrinkle in Time before the movie comes out. I hadn't read it since I was a kid, and I think a lot of it went over my head. After that, it's time to finally read Le Petit Prince. I've shockingly never read it before, in any language! After that, I'll need to decide whether to go back to Tintin (I just finished album № 3, Tintin en Amérique) or finish Voyage au centre de la terre first. I definitely want to finish at least one book by Verne before my trip since we'll be visiting his house in Nantes.
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Re: An opera fan's language log - working on French

Postby SophiaMerlin_II » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:05 pm

Deinonysus wrote:However, you always use the informal pronoun when talking to God, at least in the languages I'm familiar with. For example, in the King James Bible, which was written when English still kept the distinction between the informal "thou" or "thee" and the formal "ye" or "you", it's "hallowed be thy name", not "hallowed be your name".


This made me laugh because many people who read the KJV have the opposite assumption (that thee and thou are the formal version, even though I believe you are correct).

Oh linguistic drift! Never a dull moment.
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