An opera fan's log - French, German, Italian, etc

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SGP
Blue Belt
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:33 pm
Languages: DE (native), EN (C2), ES (B2), FR (B2); some more at various levels
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 30#p120230
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Re: An opera fan's log - Learning Italian, polishing German & French, reading anglophone lit

Postby SGP » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:11 pm

Deinonysus wrote:Vielen Dank für die Korrektur! Und ich bin froh zu sehen, dass du zurück bist. Wie geht's dir?
Gerne. Bin ich denn zurück? Naja... dazu sag ich mal abwarten und Tee trinken ;). Mir geht's wunderbar. Dir, mon? SCNR
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Previously known as SGP. But my mental username now is langmon.

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Neurotip
Green Belt
Posts: 332
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:02 pm
Location: London, UK
Languages: eng N; ita & fra B2+, ell & deu B2-, ísl B1 (spa & swe A2?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9850
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Re: An opera fan's log - Learning Italian, polishing German & French, reading anglophone lit

Postby Neurotip » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:53 am

Deinonysus wrote:Italian is just kind of... French but you pronounce all the letters and move your hands more. There are no puzzles and there isn't much thinking to do. I'm not learning it from scratch, I'm learning how it differs from French.

I can understand how that works in reading and listening - I imagine that someone with decent French could understand written Italian fairly well with a bit of practice. But does it still feel like that when you're producing Italian? For example, if you read 'mi piace' it's a smooth translation to '[il] me plait', but going the other way it would certainly help as an aide-memoire but there's still a 'you just have to know it' element, no?

I agree with garyb that the similarity sort of kicks the challenges up the street; I can read an Italian novel without too much difficulty but listening to native TV and radio is still a real challenge for me. (And you do realise that you cannot get by in Italian without the imperfect subjunctive? :D )

It is possible that I'm being a bit defensive here. ;)

Enjoy the operas btw! I've been lucky enough to see Billy Budd and Die Zauberflöte this year, both excellent productions.
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Deinonysus
Brown Belt
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:06 pm
Location: MA, USA
Languages:  
• Native: English
• Advanced: French
• Intermediate: German,
   Spanish, Hebrew
• Beginner: Italian,
   Arabic
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Re: An opera fan's log - French, German, Italian, etc

Postby Deinonysus » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:39 am

It's been a while since I've posted here, but it may finally be time to dust this log off. I've been working from home and I've been singing classical music around the house while I have the place to myself, and it struck me that I'm not comfortable singing in Italian the way I am in French and German. I've been singing in Italian for over 20 years but although I can pronounce it fine and I have some very basic knowledge of the language, it feels like I'm just making sounds rather than actually feeling the language.

I've also been meaning to go through the Assimil German courses. German is actually my strongest spoken language, but I'm just shy of being able to read it fluently because of my limited vocabulary. I tried brute-force learning of isolated vocabulary words several years ago but that didn't do it for me. I think Assimil might do the trick.

I think my French is good for now. I can read it fluently and I can get by with the spoken language. I'm at the point of diminishing returns and I would have to put in a lot of time to make a noticeable improvement. I think my French reading has improved a lot because I started preferentially buying Assimil courses in French and that's been good practice. I'll even sit down to do a lesson and forget that the book was in French and not English!

I've been working on Modern Standard Arabic for a while and I'm determined to finish the Duolingo Arabic course and at least Unit 1 of Pimsleur Modern Standard Arabic before moving on to another language. I'm on track to do that within the next week or two. I had been trying to get through Assimil L'arabe, but by the end of the day I don't have the brainpower to get through a lesson. I think I'll do better with the Italian or German Assimil courses; the vocabulary and grammar are much simpler and more familiar.

I've been trying to decide whether to work on Italian or German first. My motivation is higher for Italian and the results would be much quicker because my level is so much lower, but I think I am leaning towards starting with German. I've already completed the German Pimsleur course and I don't think I need to review it, so that opens up my commute time slot to finish levels 2 and 3 of Pimsleur Modern Standard Arabic while using my other time slots on German.

The resource I'm planning on using are:

German:
  • Assimil L'allemand - 1.5 months to finish (I'll start on the second wave because my level of German is already strong).
  • Assimil Perfectionnement allemand - A bit over 2 months to finish, so maybe around 4 months total for Assimil.
  • Duolingo German - This course is absolutely massive but my level of German is pretty high and I'm already almost 1/3 of the way through it. I have no idea how long it will take me to get through. Maybe 6 months?
Italian:
  • Assimil L'italiano - 3.5 months to finish
  • Assimil Perfectionnement l'italien - 2.5 months to finish (6 months total)
  • Duolingo Italian - This is a moderately sized course, a bit longer than the Arabic course and around half the length of the German course. But I do know French pretty well and that should help. Maybe around 4 months?
  • Pimsleur Italian - It takes me around 6 weeks to get through a unit of Pimsleur, and the Italian course has 5 units, so 30 weeks or ~7 months.

I did end up seeing Pagliacci two years ago and it was great! Sadly I did not end up seeing Norma or Giulio Cesare because the rest of the season was cancelled due to Covid.
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