Nótaí galaxyrocker - Ancient Celtic Languages, (Old) French, Latin, Old English

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luke
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Re: Nótaí Galaxyrocker -- French and accent practice tips?

Postby luke » Sun May 08, 2022 4:01 pm

galaxyrocker wrote:The other main thing I need to work on is my accent, in both Irish and French. Irish it's especially grating, as I've found many people who dismiss any opinion I have about Irish, or even my own grammatical knowledge, simply if they can hear the American sound in my Irish. Usually, it comes through in the vowels.

I am curious if you've ever considered adopting an Irish accent in English. You mentioned "America", so I assume you're this side of the pond. Here, it seems to me that an Irish accent is cool, and perhaps carries some prestige. Although you're friends and acquaintances would know it wasn't "natural", there would be a purpose behind it.
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galaxyrocker
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Re: Nótaí Galaxyrocker -- French and accent practice tips?

Postby galaxyrocker » Sun May 08, 2022 5:10 pm

luke wrote:I am curious if you've ever considered adopting an Irish accent in English. You mentioned "America", so I assume you're this side of the pond. Here, it seems to me that an Irish accent is cool, and perhaps carries some prestige. Although you're friends and acquaintances would know it wasn't "natural", there would be a purpose behind it.


Sadly the English accent in Ireland wouldn't help me much with Irish. It's collapsed a lot in the past few generations, towards a more generic English base as opposed to a Gaelic substrate one. Perhaps if I was able to only live with older rural speakers I could do it, as they often have quite a Gaelic accent still (in intonation and vowels, etc) that's sadly been lost (though, unfortunately, the idea that the Irish accent comes from Irish hasn't, which leads to some of the problems).
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Re: Nótaí Galaxyrocker -- French and accent practice tips?

Postby eido » Sun May 08, 2022 10:57 pm

galaxyrocker wrote:Hope y'all have a good week, and please do leave any pronunciation practice tips.

I like to read out loud to myself. If you know what you're looking for, it helps you catch all the little errors in pronunciation you make. Everyone has an accent, even in their native language. The only thing that matters is the metric you're using to measure with.

I've tried @luke's suggestion before, with trying to mimic various accents in my native English to see if I could reproduce the sounds necessary in the target language later on. It was pretty fun. And once you learn a sound, and it appears in a different context, you just have to reproduce and repurpose it. ;)

Developing an understandable and/or comprehensible accent takes time and a good ear (something you don't necessarily have to be born with). I remember it took me forever to get the basic idea of the Korean L/R liquid phoneme down. What changed was me reading somewhere it was the same as the Spanish R, which I had already spent a good amount of time working on. That eased my anxiety immensely.

Now I realize it was the Korean batchim and the liaison that caught me, and I'm still learning more about it all today. I don't mind it. But I really do think reading aloud helps, because it gets the theory cemented in your head using practical exercises. Speaking from my perspective growing up in the US, we had a lot of chances to sit down and do that--or be read to--in my elementary classes. So we learned prosody for written texts of many different types, which transferred over to our verbal abilities and back again. These skills were only honed through practice.

Therefore, that's my 2c. Let me know what you think. I'm in no way trying to push anything; rather, I'm just trying to offer up some thought-food.
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Re: Nótaí Galaxyrocker -- Brest in disarray

Postby galaxyrocker » Sun May 15, 2022 10:41 am

It's that time of the week again y'all. And it's been a week.

I was productive, though I wasn't as productive (in some regards) as the past few. I did no explicit grammar study, but I did read quite a bit (probably around 100 pages) in Les Gaulois. My total progress can be seen in the progress bar below. It's interesting, and I'm finally into the part where it talks about the non-material culture aspect of the Gauls. I'm not sure how much of this is valid, to be quite honest, as I was under the impression from English language sources that a lot of this is of dubious quality, but it's really interesting to see how the French side approaches it. It's also really good for French practice. I shift through intensive reading and extensive reading depending on my mood and/or how much I can understand. I was doing a period of intensive reading, and it was quite fun -- learning words for sickle, pitchfork, hazelnut, etc. during the part on agriculture, for instance. In general, I've been doing more extensive as long as I can understand it. I'm over halfway, so getting excited to finish it and move on to something else in French. I also finished chapter 12 of 'French for Reading'


Les Gaulois: 232 / 392

I watched the first few episodes of Lupin this week as well, as well as two episodes of a sitcom from the sitcom YouTube channel. I've found Lupin easier to understand, but that's solely because of the subtitles. I'll likely finish the series of Lupin this coming week and start of series two. I might go back to the sitcoms after to help train my ear without subtitles.

No active practice, as expected.

With Irish I didn't do a whole lot. Transcribing some more stories, and I think I'm going to work on updating these stories to the modern orthography and maybe publish a new edition. They're a treasure trove of knowledge and a good cultural look into the area they were collected and it's a shame it's so difficult to find a copy of the book. A new edition would be nice. I did get Irish speaking practice, and it was much better this time, getting complemented on my accent by a native speaker from Munster (I'm sure he was just being nice, but it's better off than last week!) Still trying to work on my accent though, especially the vowels.

I'm also currently working on writing a paper about Irish prepositional usage in old sayings (seanfhocail/seanrá, as they're called). It's quite annoying as it involves a lot of combing through books. Thank goodness for pdf copies and pdfgrep to go through it and save the lines for me. This makes it much easier to search, though I need to get a physical copy of the book from the library when it reopens tomorrow. Seems on a rough look that the preposition ar (often glossed as English 'on', but with many more meanings) is the most common one. It'll be interesting research, nonetheless. Starting specifically with Munster Irish, even though it's not the dialect I speak, due to the fact that I had an OCR'd pdf of the book handy. Connacht will be next, then Ulster.

With regards to Brest, I emailed them on Monday and heard back. In the process of working on my application and getting everything I need ready. However, there's a hitch. I honestly can't believe I didn't think of this before, but I'm not sure how my student loans from the US will actually work. I don't need to take out any, but I do need the deferral. I'd assumed that, since I'd be enrolled full-time at a university the deferral would be easy to get. However, it seems the exact opposite. UBO, where I'd be, isn't one of their 'eligible' schools for loans -- and it looks like that includes deferral as well as actually getting loans. This could put me in quite the predicament if I go. I'm looking around and asking around various places to see if there's any way I could get them deferred, but if not I might be up the creek on this plan, unfortunately. Or somehow have to find a part-time job that pays enough.


That means (assuming this doesn't work out), if I wish to pursue Celtic Studies seriously there's a few paths. I could return to teaching do that for the 9 years I would need to to pay of my student loans then go back and get another masters in Ireland/France/wherever followed by, hopefully a PhD. I could just go ahead and apply for a position in Harvard's PhD program; I've a few friends who've done it and they say a background in a Celtic language would help as opposed to coming in without knowing one, more if I could pick up Welsh or Breton for them as well. Applications have already closed for this year, but the application deadline is early- to mid-December for the 2023 year so I could really work on it; this is part of why I'm doing said research above, to get an academic paper in a related discipline for a writing sample. I could try to find a job in Ireland and work here until I get citizenship then go back on a part-time basis and do a masters in Nua-Ghaeilge or something more related to Celtic Studies as a whole. There's also a Gaelic Literature online masters through UCC I might try to do, especially if I decide to apply to Harvard; it could give me a nice background if I score well on it. Overall, it's all up in the air. I'll keep up with my French even if I don't get to go to Brest just because there's been lots of interesting books I've seen posted on the forum (the ones on the Celts posted here, the one about mythology that I intend to read next if I can find a copy), and there's still a lot of research on Breton in the language. Though Harvard recently dropped French as a possible third language (One Celtic language, Latin, then either another Celtic language or German/French), now requiring only German. So if I go that route, I guess I'll be starting 'German for Reading' or the Nature Method books for German. It's all just very frustrating, as I thought I had things planned out ready to go and now there's a huge wrench in my plans.

Edit: Happy Edit! Seems that I can still apply for an Income-Based Repayment even if I'm not working. This would reset my payment to $0. I'd also likely have a $0 repayment on loans if I stayed working in Ireland as any pay I get would likely be below the exemption limit for paying tax on foreign-earned income. So this opens up a lot of new wonderful options, between going to Brest or staying and working in Ireland. Well fun, but also not good for someone as indecisive about stuff as me.
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galaxyrocker
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Re: Nótaí Galaxyrocker -- Who knows what's going on anymore?

Postby galaxyrocker » Sun May 22, 2022 9:00 pm

It wasn't an overly productive week. It was fairly nice here, and I got sucked into that. I did finish Les Gaulois, however. It was good, and very informative even if I'm a little skeptical of the author's conclusions at times. It was written over a decade ago, so I would like to see an updated version. As I've mentioned before, it was quite different on the use of 'Celts' than how the English academy uses it, though it fits more the traditional view 20 years ago. I'd be interested to see if this holds over in French academia or just in popular books. At least he did mention Breton came over from people fleeing the Anglo-Saxon invasion, not that it was a descendant of Gaulish as some French academics like to claim!

Otherwise, I did a whole bunch of nothing. No listening, no writing and no speaking. Well, that's not entirely true. There is a native French speaker at the Irish language circle I go to regularly, and we actually spoke French this week. Why? Because we were teaching a Ukrainian refugee Irish. He had good English, but refused to speak it as we were in the Irish speaking bar. So we resorted to French, with me slipping in some of my Spanish (he had lived in Argentina for 17 years). It was quite fun and unexpected. Still made me realize how much more I had to go. I need to get back to proper grammar study as well writing practice. I might pick up an official B1/B2 study book and simply do the writing practices somewhere I can get them corrected. With listening, I intend to finish Lupin this week, and I also intend to do it without subtitles. I'm relying on reading too much.

[Sneaky edit]
I've already picked out my next reading -- went ahead and bought the Cosmogonies book about the common origin of myths. I'd like to see how this compares as well to Joseph Campbell and his idea of the monomyth, as well as to some of the other stuff I've watched and read about it. It'll be exciting.
[/sneaky edit]


With Irish, it's mostly just the same-ole same-ole. I did notice they're offering the C1 exam in December. If I don't go to Brest or move back to America, I'm going to plan on taking it, and focus all my intentions towards that (on top of job hunting, of course, if I don't already have one). It'll give me something to work towards.

Otherwise, it's just finishing up my application for Brest. Unfortunately, I can't find a copy of my diploma from where I did the H.Dip at NUIG through Irish, which would've helped as it was focused a lot on Celtic-studies tangential things, so I can't really include it in my previous education (they want photocopies of all diplomas). I feel like I knew where it was before I moved to Ireland, at my parents' house, but my brother moved into that room with his wife and all sorts of things got moved around, and nobody was able to find it when they went looking today. It's also like €50 to order a new one, and you have to submit the application by mail. It's quite frustrating. At least they found my undergraduate one, which I guess is the main one that matters.

In regards to Brest, I saw they're hiring an Irish teacher for the programme. I wouldn't need it (though I hope to focus on some mixture of the medieval and modern because of the thesis topic I have in mind if I do it), but it's neat that they hire the teacher and pay the teacher via Ireland governmental institutions. I'm still unsure on if I'll go even if I do get accepted -- or even if I'll stay in Ireland. But, that's still several months away, and I can fund myself in Ireland for around a year without a job if I can find a reasonably cheap apartment, so I might try that route. There's still lots in the air, and I've got at least two months to decide, roughly, if I want to go back and teach (I could also sustain myself in America for a year looking for another job, etc.)
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galaxyrocker
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Re: Nótaí Galaxyrocker -- French Interview Ahead

Postby galaxyrocker » Sun May 29, 2022 2:33 pm

Well, it's the week of truth I guess. Supposed to have an interview with the people in Brest on Friday to assess French ability. Not much else to report other than I'm going to be doing as much as I can via French then. Already listened to multiple hours of of Inner French since Thursday (pop-up Gaeltacht). I'm mostly worried about my speaking abilities, really, so have been trying to talk to myself. I kept reading this week, picking up L'Indo-Européen, apparently the go-to book for an introduction to Proto-Indo-European in French and part of the Que Sais-Je? series that was available at the library here (unfortunately not many were, and none post-1990, but still good for practice). I also went through another chapter in French for Reading. I'll probably try to get some iTalki classes booked, just for conversation practice, on Thursday since I'll be having the interview Friday.

What's funny is this was all scheduled before I even submitted my application. Like, I've uploaded none of the required documents even (I have them all, just final proof-reading, etc), and they're already talking about it. So if my French is good enough, I hope that bodes well for me. We'll have to see. Still not sure if I'll do it, as I learned that, if I get a critical needs visa, I can get permanent residency in Ireland after only two years as opposed to five, which would allow me to work any job and thus I could get back to teaching after two years, which would also give me enough time to qualify for maths as well as physics. So that's a very tempting proposition, as well as earning money again (I kinda miss it, even if I'm financially ok at the moment). So the future is still open on whether I'll go to Brest, if I get accepted and have adequate French, or if I'll stay in Ireland (and there's still a bit of a call to return home, just because that's where my good friends and family are). We'll just have to see.

Otherwise, not much to report other than I went to the May Pop-Up last Thursday, and ended up talking with two different native speakers. Was quite fun, and it's always nice to use Irish even if the quality isn't always the best there. I've also been doing some lessons in Old Irish; I think I'm going to continue with it even if I don't go to Brest. It's just super neat, and gives a lot of insight into stuff in Irish I want to read that hasn't been translated into English or Modern Irish and/or only has very old translations.

Not sure if I'll have an update next week, simply because I'm mostly just going to be immersing myself in French as much as possible for the next five days.
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galaxyrocker
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Re: Nótaí Galaxyrocker -- Irish and French with wanderlust ramblings

Postby galaxyrocker » Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:57 am

As I expected, not much to report this week. I did do a lot of French listening, though. Like, over two hours a day between Inner French and various documentaries/YouTube channels I found. I probably did 10+ hours just from Sunday-Thursday.

And the result is it paid off immensely. We didn't speak English once during the interview, except for me using a few idioms I couldn't translate or talking about book titles. I was able to understand (I think) most of what they said -- at least they thought I was, because they said I should have good enough comprehension skills to do the courses that would be taught in French! Turns out I'll be able to write the exams in English, though some courses are only taught in French so comprehension was the main thing (thank God for those 10+ hours listening). They also mentioned they could likely get me in a French for Foreigners course while there in addition to my others, to help me with speaking confidence and vocab, etc etc.

So that's one hurdle out of the way towards Brest. Now to see if I get accepted. I've been applying for jobs in Ireland too, though. It's soul crushing and since I have the money and permission to stay, I'm half-considering slumming around Ireland/Europe for a year (still applying for jobs and doing projects to hopefully set myself apart), and focusing on the Irish C1 exam in December, and maybe going to France again in January/February to do a longer immersion period. We'll just have to see, so much is still up in the air.
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Re: Nótaí Galaxyrocker -- Irish and French with wanderlust ramblings

Postby galaxyrocker » Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:36 pm

Forgot to add my copy of Cosmogonies arrived Monday, and I've been reading that as well. It's neat, but I don't think the author has convincingly showed that the myths he's tracing are truly related, as opposed to just being similar. I can see the Eurasian ones being related, and the North American ones, but not one to the other. I tend to agree more with Crawford in the video below, but I'm also only about 1/3 the way through the book, so we'll see.

Cosmogonies: La Préhistoire des mythes : 80 / 300





And having put about 10 hours into listening this week, it's still interesting to me how much easier the reading aspect of the super challenge seems. Perhaps it's just because I like reading more than watching stuff in general (I do most my listening while walking around the city/campus, getting my steps and focusing on French, especially the podcasts), even though I vastly outnumbered on watching this week, getting 3 'films' in and only one 'book'. Not that I'm doing the super challenge, but I do find it interesting to think about.
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Re: Nótaí Galaxyrocker -- Brest update

Postby galaxyrocker » Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:09 pm

Well, I got accepted to the programme at Brest, so that's good news. It's exciting, though I'm still not sure if I fully want to do it. They've encouraged me to go ahead and accept the spot, and that I can resign it anytime before classes start without fees, which is nice. They also gave me the contact of the person who's been teaching Irish there the past two years so I can ask them if I have any questions about it.

I've really got three worries about it.

(1) Cost. It's a two year programme. I've enough money put aside to meet France's requirements, but I really don't want to live on cheap food for two years. Looking at rent places, I'd need a few thousand more, which I could possibly get, to be safe. There's also an internship aspect, where I might have to go back to Dublin or to the UK. That'd be very difficult to afford, if it's an unpaid part because Dublin is so much more expensive than Brest.

(2) Job aspects. I want to do this, and would love to pursue a career in Celtic Studies, getting a PhD and doing research. This might mean going back to teaching and doing private research after a PhD, as I know how academia works. There's just not many. Whereas now, I'm set to start doing data science stuff, as well as actuary and even other things. There's lots of options.

(3) Staying in Europe. Ireland offers a two-year graduate visa. I can afford to stay in Dublin without a job for a year, but under this visa I'm allowed to work any job, with no employment check or any of that, and as long as I get a contract I can renew the second year. I'm hopeful I'd be able to get a job, eventually, just mass applying to data science and anything related to data science/analytics or physics or Python programming, while also building portfolios and other things. Now, France does have a visa to allow me to stay for a year after the programme while looking for a job -- but I can only work 60% of full-time hours (same I can work while in school, though I'd rather not work and do a masters at the same time, though it is an option).

So overall I just don't know, though I will likely accept it so I can postpone the major decision even longer.

As to languages, I did quite a bit of French listening before Wednesday, when I got a new game that I've since put over 30 hours in (big problems!). I've finally beat the story, so it'll be dying down soon hopefully, though I've got two others as well. I didn't play it in French just because I couldn't switch back and I wanted to understand the story. Overall, though, I probably got 6 hours or so of French listening in. Documentaries have been my lifesaver, all without subtitles to help focus and improve listening skills. I've read some, as can be seen in the progress bar below. With Irish, there wasn't much at all due to the conversation circle being closed as the pub was closed for the big Irish language music festival that was on this weekend. I have been doing some stuff with Old Irish however, as if I go to Brest I'll be doing the middle ages tract, though I hope to also learn Modern Welsh and Breton somehow. Though that might be too much (French, Middle Welsh and Middle Breton, Old Irish, Modern Welsh and Modern Breton all at once!)

Hope everyone has a good week ahead of them!


Cosmogonies: La Préhistoire des mythes : 111 / 300
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Re: Nótaí Galaxyrocker -- Irish and French with wanderlust ramblings

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:37 pm

How exciting to have such difficult choices! Didn’t you mention there was a possibility of getting Irish citizenship? Could you finagle that and then do the program in Brest? If you got in once I imagine you could get in again? Perhaps with even better French?
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Grammaire progressive du français -
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