Nótaí galaxyrocker - Ancient Celtic Languages, (Old) French, Latin, Old English

[galaxyrocker]

First off, congrats on passing the B2 test! You're an inspiration!

Thank you. Unfortunately, I was actually upset with it, since I didn't score high enough to be accepted to the Masters in Nua-Ghaeilge that I was planning on doing. Maybe sometime...

And thank you for the resources and the reviews. It's good to have it all laid out like that from someone who has "made it". I did finish the Duolingo course and I am grateful for it for being easy to use and carry around and giving me a good view of the overall structure with some hints of the thorny details I'll need to hash out. But with your review I'm thinking rather than continuing to review the course it's best to drop it for the more traditional methods which will ingrain correct Irish in my brain.

You can still use Duolingo, but just be careful about it and read the discussions. We generally try and point out anything super inaccurate or that people have questions about. Though, I do recommend the more traditional material more (sadly, there isn't really any good new stuff; perhaps I should get on that...)

I haven't been formally studying (or even informally studying) for a few months now. I've been overwhelmed with a lot of other stuff and I'm still waiting to settle down into a routine again. I did get to the point where I could build some sentences and start to (painfully) communicate so it's important to keep working until I get to a basic communicative level before I lose a lot of the progress I made. Hopefully I'll get it up and running again so I can work on Vifax and chat with the Skype group regularly.

Honestly, the biggest issue I've had with Irish is finding native speakers to practice with. There's plenty of learners (or 'natives' who learned it in school!), but it's hard to get practice from a bonafide person from the Gaeltacht. Also, if you want some Skype information, just PM me. I know of several groups, outside of Gaelskype.

As for additional languages - have you thought of keeping it in the "family" and going for Breton or Welsh? French could be interesting for a parallel (English-Irish, French-Breton) plus it'll make some more good resources available to you. I also just recently discovered that French-Canada has a rich Celtic-inspired tradition with lots of great music (and there are pockets of Irish speakers in Canada too). My list of dream vacations (in addition to the Irish Gaeltacht) now includes a trip to the Quebec, P.E.I., Maritimes, etc to explore more of French-Canadian Celtic culture and music.

I actually have. Scottish Gaelic holds my interest, but I don't want to try such a similar language so soon. I might really look into Welsh, since I feel it'd be easier, because I already understand the VSO and mutations, etc. Breton is also really interesting, given how it's fighting against French. Perhaps...

[terrymisu]

Did you do any other courses before the B2?

My vote for your next language is for Icelandic.

[galaxyrocker]

Did you do any other courses before the B2?

My vote for your next language is for Icelandic.

I did four semesters when I was in school, with the final one focusing solely on reading native material (we focused on dramas the year I did it). I didn't do any official course the year between graduation and the test though, no. Just focused on learning nuances of grammar and reading/speaking/writing. Should have focused much more on listening.


And thanks. I'll look into it; it does seem kinda interesting.

[Polyclod]

My vote would be for Icelandic too, just out of how awesome it looks. Really any of the Scandinavian languages. It's times like these I wish I had unlimited amounts of time to learn all of the Germanic things...

[galaxyrocker]

My vote would be for Icelandic too, just out of how awesome it looks. Really any of the Scandinavian languages. It's times like these I wish I had unlimited amounts of time to learn all of the Germanic things...

I might have to learn Icelandic now! Though it's likely if I learn any Nordic language, it'd be Finnish or Swedish, so as to later take advantage of resources for Sami languages.

But, I just wanted to give a short update:

Since I joined here and started posting, I've definitely been reading more Irish. I've spent less time on the internet (well, constantly refreshing at least!) and reading Irish. It's kinda hurt me as I want to finish some of the other books I'm reading, but I can't complain since these are fascinating stories. I can also feel my Irish getting better just by the intense use of it.

I've downloaded several old Irish language radio shows, and plan to listen to them while working. Probably multiple times a day since they're only one-hour long. There's also music mixed in, which is a nice break from solely talking.

As for writing and speaking, I'm gonna keep doing what I've been doing. If I get a full time job, instead of just my summer help one, I might look into paying a native speaker to read my writing and correct them for dialectal use, as well as to practice speaking in dialect with me. But that all depends on whether I get a job or go back to school, so we'll see there.

[galaxyrocker]

So I think I've got my wanderlust settled down a bit. I recently finished the novel All the Light We Cannot See (highly recommended, by the way), and for some reason it really sparked a desire to learn French. I took 4 years of it in high school, and was once fairly adept at reading, though my other skills sucked. But that's been years ago. Also, what might be perhaps my favorite book of all time (Les Misérables) was originally written in the language, so that's a plus.


However, I've also got job interviews for companies in Germany and Estonia... So I'm probably going to hold off until I hear back about those. Sad that I won't be able to use it for the 6 week challenge. Just gonna hope my wanderlust isn't acting up again by the time I know for sure.

[galaxyrocker]

This week was awful for me. I was much busier than anticipated, and didn't get anything done. I also got distracted playing some games over the weekend, which just cut into it as well. I did, however, learn a real fun construction that is actually used in the dialect I study. Previously, I thought it had been in Ulster Irish only, but it's not. It's basically another way to express possession, apart from the normal pronouns.

Using the example of house, I'll show them (and write them dialectally):

[*]an teach seo 'amsa
[*]an teach seo 'adsa
[*]an teach seo aigesean
[*]an teach seo aicise
[*]an teach seo 'ainne
[*]an teach seo agaíse
[*]an teach seo acabsa

Sometimes, they seo gets shortened to s', giving an teach s'ainne. Literally translates to "This house at us". Just something interesting that's apparently pretty common in native speech.

[Josquin]

This construction is taught by Ó Siadhail's Learning Irish. It's good to know it's something native speaker really use. Sometimes I get the impression Ó Siadhail has a faible for rules and exceptions that aren't really useful for a beginner.

[galaxyrocker]

This construction is taught by Ó Siadhail's Learning Irish. It's good to know it's something native speaker really use. Sometimes I get the impression Ó Siadhail has a faible for rules and exceptions that aren't really useful for a beginner.

My issue with O'Siadhail is that no matter how much I recommend it (because it teaches actual spoken Irish), I've never worked through the entire book, using ithe more as reference.

[galaxyrocker]

So I made some progress today. I listened to some Ardtrathnóna while mowing (an hour), and, though it was hard to hear it at times, did pick up a good chunk of it. I'll try listening through it again tomorrow, and maybe download some episodes of comhrá since there's no music in them and I can listen to the speech (plus, I won't be tempted by the subtitles!).

I also finished the story I was currently on in Bróga Páipéir agus Stocaí Bainne Ramhair, something that I hadn't worked on for a few days because of getting distracted. Thankfully, the internet and phone service were down for a couple of hours (AT&T), so I didn't have those distractions freely available, and I was able to finish it. I have four more stories in here, then I'm either going to start on the 'Must-Read' novels, or start a collection of short stories on Scribd. Still not sure yet.

However, I did learn how useful headphones and a phone can be while working outdoors (mowing, weedeating, etc.) and even indoors. Just put that in and go, as long as you can hear over the sound of whatever you're doing. I figure it'd be great for walking, or laying in a hammock. It's definitely made me want to try Pimsleur whenever I do finally decide on a third language to add.


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All of that said, it seems I've been hearing nothing but bad news in regards to Irish this week. Despite what the government, and most 'Gaelgeoirí', will have you believe, it really does seem the language is on its last leg, with the death of traditional Irish coming around 2050, as the last speakers die off. "But wait!" you say "There's still plenty speaking Irish"... Well, the issue is they're not speaking Irish, but basically a bastardized form in which everything is just English with funny words. The idioms, the phonology, the morphology, everything. In fact, there's a widening gap between older speakers and the ones speaking 'Irish' today; the older ones can't understand them because they're basically translating English literally into Irish. And then people are claiming this is good.

Basically, learner's aren't being held accountable for their mistakes, and everyone treats it like it's perfectly fine. To me, I see it doing a disservice to the language; nobody would dare allow a non-minority language to be taught and treated this way, and it saddens me to see them letting it happen to Irish just because it's a minority language (by 'it' I mean becoming more English-like in every possible way). Just really upsetting.

Also, in case you can't tell where I stand... I'm with the crowd who says the language is dying. And I say that as someone who absolutely loves it and would do anything for it to continue to exist. What children are learning in school isn't Irish. It's basically English with weird words.

Here's a copy/paste of an article by Feargal Ó Béarra on Reddit. One comment reads

It is true that the Irish most kids will learn going forward is heavily influnenced by English but its fucking better than nothing let me tell you.

As I said already, I don't agree with that. They're not learning Irish 'heavily influnenced by English' - they're learning English with Irish words, and it's not better than nothing.

Also, this article discusses it. Basically, I agree with the conclusions: Irish is moribund, and whatever continues to exist won't be Irish, but a fancy form of English.

(Sorry for the rambling there!)