Nótaí galaxyrocker - Ancient Celtic Languages, (Old) French, Latin, Old English

[DaveAgain]

French is in an even more difficult place. I read in French reasonably regularly, between slowly chipping away at a book I'm working on (Arcana, still) and news articles, Wikipedia or Discord servers. But I never get any practice speaking it, nor do I really ever get any listening practice. I just don't particularly want to sit and watch youtube videos, and don't really know people who speak it in real life (well, I know two native French speakers, but one wants to use Irish and the other English). I'm seriously debating getting a teacher on iTalki to help me work on pronunciation, and maybe that'll give me more motivation to watch shows/movies/youtube videos in the language. I'm not going to Brest this year, but will be teaching Irish at the university next school year, but Brest is definitely on the menu otherwise; Dublin just keeps getting more and more expensive and I don't know if it's worth staying here anymore, really.

There must surely be a French community in Dublin, is there a way of breaking into that? There's a French club in my town that organises monthly meetings around a talk, the organisers are lecturers at the local university, perhaps you could inquire with the French department of Dublin uni to see if they are aware of something similar?

Otherwise, I've dabbled some in other languages, all but one related to the possible PhD/research programme I'd love to do on comparative phraseology/metaphors in language use across Celtic languages and the languages they were in contact with

That sounds like a very interesting area! I was astonished to learn that imperial weights and measures were actually the continuation of a Roman system.

[sfuqua]

Ah, to have so many possibilities!
The glass is half full. Remember that.

I always get too ambitious about what I can accomplish. I usually feel better when I just pick one thing to work on.

But that's just me.

[galaxyrocker]

There must surely be a French community in Dublin, is there a way of breaking into that? There's a French club in my town that organises monthly meetings around a talk, the organisers are lecturers at the local university, perhaps you could inquire with the French department of Dublin uni to see if they are aware of something similar?

That's actually a good idea I hadn't thought of. Most of them are on Facebook, and I'm sure there's a group for French people in Ireland, but I'll ask my friend if he know of any just general French events like that on in Dublin. Probably something at the AF.

That sounds like a very interesting area! I was astonished to learn that imperial weights and measures were actually the continuation of a Roman system.

It's neat because, even if you don't subscribe to cognitive metaphor theory about these influencing how we think, it's still a look into the culture and what the culture conceptualised as important and how they did it. Things that are quickly being lost in minority languages (and slowly being lost in majority ones) under the influence of English/whatever other language as people shift their dominant language and rely more and more on English/French/whatever as their underlying mode of thought. It's a lot of richness being lost. That's part of why I want to work with the older Celtic languages too - less influence from other languages apart from Latin (some, but not nearly as much as nowadays)

Ah, to have so many possibilities!
The glass is half full. Remember that.

I always get too ambitious about what I can accomplish. I usually feel better when I just pick one thing to work on.

But that's just me.

I think the possibilities are the problem! I can't make decisions! And I do need to try to remember the glass is half-full; I'm very much a pessimistic person by default, so it'd do me good. And yeah, I just need one resource and to stop obsessing over finding the 'best' one.

[Amandine]

There's a French group on Meetup in Dublin with regular events. https://www.meetup.com/the-dublin-french-meetup-group/

[galaxyrocker]

It's been a while since I've posted, but I guess it'd be good to give an update and discuss some of my plans for 2024. So I'll consider this the start of my 2024 log, though I have a feeling it's going to be another year of very sporadic posting, even if I do frequent the forum.

2023 in Review

Out of all my goals, I've achieved maybe one of them, and that was continuing with French. I've read over 1000 pages of French stuff this year, finished two entire books. I've got one waiting for me back in Dublin, but will have to get some French books soon. Sadly, Ireland's libraries don't have many in French, nor does my university library. The good news is, I've found I can pretty much read French quite well without a dictionary, at least simple stuff like this. I should probably switch to fiction to branch out and expand my vocabulary there, but I think doing some Celtic studies stuff might actually be better - it'll allow me to get a fuller range of vocab in the field I want to study, and the reason I picked up French again in the first place. I haven't done much active stuff, though I do listen to podcasts. I've found some neat ones on the history of Rome, a philosophy one and one I've listened to on esoteric stuff (even if it's not as academic as I'd like). Hopefully these will lead me to more. I'd also be open to any TV show recommendations, even though I rarely watch TV in any language. I downloaded Tandem, but haven't had much luck finding people who don't just want to resort to English all the time. Maybe I'll get lucky!

With Irish, I need to work on removing anglicisms from my speech, and really focusing on my pronunciation. That said, I gave my first professional talk in Irish this year, on the metaphors/imagery that was used in proverbs dealing with death from the three main proverb collections. It was nice to do it, even if I was dead nervous and rushed through my talk. Practice is what is needed, and I made some good connections with the two other people who are working in the field of Irish phraseology/paremiology as well as with a few others. Got some more reading recommendations as well for academic literature on the topic. Overall, it was a great conference (and everything except my dinners was fully paid for!)

All the other goals have pretty much been failed. I've dabbled in the other languages some, but never stuck with them. So it goes, really. I'm not too worried about it, though I do need to get focused.

2024 Goals

These are going to be about as ambitious as last years. My visa will come up in 2024 in Ireland and unless there's a job waiting for me, it means I'll have to leave. To that ends, since I'm uncertain about wanting to return to the States quite yet (being at home makes me want to, but there's other reasons not to), that means Brest or international school teaching. I've applied to some jobs already for the latter, but am focusing on Brest as I feel if I return in the future without doing it I'll forever regret it, and if it leads to a PhD all the better even if I don't stick around in academia afterwards.

So, for 2024 I'll likely be working on getting my reading skills up to par. That means mostly focusing on Latin and the Old Celtic languages. However, I got a book on Old English for Christmas, so will likely work through that at a much slower pace. It helps that as long as I can get reading skills in these languages, I'm good. I've gotten some books on Old French too, and have found the best ones are written in French. So that'll be killing two birds with one stone.

Now, I don't want to overextend myself like I did at the beginning of 2023, but I only have a 5 teaching hours this coming term (so far, it can change until the term starts), so honestly I really don't have any excuses time-wise. I have pretty much all the free time in the world. That said, I want to develop some other hobbies, and other languages do always call me. Indeed, I'll be taking Genki back with me to Ireland just in case Brest doesn't work out either and I get the international teaching gig in Japan (I've applied to a few there, but they generally don't accept first time international school teachers in Japan due to the demand). One of those 'just in case' things. As for the other hobbies, I hope to return to martial arts if I stay in Ireland, though otherwise I need to save. I do hope to travel more, and get more into cooking instead of eating out alone as much as I do. Otherwise, it's mostly a fitness-oriented year for me. I gained a bit of weight this past year, despite averaging almost 10k walking a day, and I really need to work on getting back into shape and cutting my calorie count (thus the cooking). But language goals are the main focus: Old Irish, Middle Welsh and Latin, with dabblings of Old French and Old English on the side. As said I hope that, since it's all for reading, it'll be a bit easier and I don't have the worry I do with my (lack of) French active skills.

With French itself, I just want to improve my speaking/writing. Ideally, I'll find someone in Dublin who I can meet with, or via Tandem. Even if I just practiced my writing skills, it'd be great. Perhaps one of the Write Streak subreddits could be useful for that? It honestly might be best to just pay someone on iTalki though. We'll just have to see what happens though, really.

I might also take up another job when I return to Dublin, just to help save more for France if I do the masters there. If I do that, I hope to actually use some of the money I'll earn to do an immersion course in France. Actually, I hope to do that regardless of whether I stay in Ireland or move to France, but it all comes down to finances, especially as I want to travel more if I stay in Ireland (which I can, since I won't need to save as much each month). Either way, I think I'll end up in Brest at some point as long as I don't go the international teaching route, it's just a matter of when (next year, or after I get Irish citizenship).

[DaveAgain]

I'd also be open to any TV show recommendations, even though I rarely watch TV in any language.

Arte.tv have En thérapie that I liked. My favourite French TV series is season 2 of Les Petits Meurtres d'Agatha Christie (seasons 1, 2 and 3 all have different casts).

[crush]

I just listened to your interview on the Refold podcast and must say that was one of my favorites, i feel like one episode wasn't enough to talk about everything Irish. The difference between L2 speakers and native speakers really did bring to mind the situation of Hawaiian in Hawaii. It's odd how that works out, in the Basque Country -- perhaps because there are enough folks who still grew up speaking the language natively -- people generally learn the standard language in school then assimilate into the local dialect and start picking up the local speech patterns and the standard language and various dialects in general coexist pretty well.

Hopefully you can sort things out to stay in Ireland (if that's what you really want). I'm currently "home" as well but i miss being in the Basque Country every single day. If you ended up going to Brest, would that potentially involve working with Breton?

[galaxyrocker]

I just listened to your interview on the Refold podcast and must say that was one of my favorites, i feel like one episode wasn't enough to talk about everything Irish. The difference between L2 speakers and native speakers really did bring to mind the situation of Hawaiian in Hawaii. It's odd how that works out, in the Basque Country -- perhaps because there are enough folks who still grew up speaking the language natively -- people generally learn the standard language in school then assimilate into the local dialect and start picking up the local speech patterns and the standard language and various dialects in general coexist pretty well.

It definitely wasn't! There's so much more I could say, some of it potentially controversial, especially that bit about L2 speakers versus natives (lots don't want to admit there's a difference, or that it's an issue). It is really interesting the difference in Basque (and Welsh, to a lesser, and changing, extent) compared to other minority languages on this ground. I wish I knew what it was, but it's probably the concentration of natives to non-natives combined with exposure to native speech and not being repeatedly told all Basque is good Basque, etc. With Hawaiian it's definitely similar. Indeed, there's a masters thesis out there by someone who systematically catalogued some of the differences, and it was stark. Same as with Irish.

Hopefully you can sort things out to stay in Ireland (if that's what you really want). I'm currently "home" as well but i miss being in the Basque Country every single day. If you ended up going to Brest, would that potentially involve working with Breton?

With regards to what I really want, I'm not sure and that's part of the problem. I like Ireland, but don't particularly care for Dublin or how insular the country seems to be. Granted, everywhere in the world, apart from major metropolises, will probably be like that which is a problem. That's why I'm hopeful Brest would be better because there's a ready-made friend group in the other students, and if I do international school teaching there's the other teachers, many often transient as well.

And, yes, if I go to Brest I'll be working with Middle Breton as I'd focus on the Medieval Celtic languages stream as opposed to the modern one (to minimize outside influence, which is critical for what I'd want to study), though ideally I'd also dabble in modern Breton as well while I'm at an ideal place/time for it.

[crush]

Indeed, there's a masters thesis out there by someone who systematically catalogued some of the differences, and it was stark. Same as with Irish.

If you're talking about Keao NeSmith's thesis, Tutu's Hawaiian (and the Emergence of a Neo-Hawaiian Language), i've read that and it really influenced my strategy/goals with Hawaiian. I had been aware that it was a bit of a controversial issue in the Hawaiian language sphere, but i didn't really understand why. If that's not the thesis you were referring to, i'd love to read it if you can still remember what it was and find it!

And, yes, if I go to Brest I'll be working with Middle Breton as I'd focus on the Medieval Celtic languages stream as opposed to the modern one (to minimize outside influence, which is critical for what I'd want to study), though ideally I'd also dabble in modern Breton as well while I'm at an ideal place/time for it.

That sounds amazing! I don't know if you're 100% satisfied with your Irish yet so it would be a shame to leave if that's the case, but regardless it seems like you'd have a lot going for you in either place.

[galaxyrocker]

If you're talking about Keao NeSmith's thesis, Tutu's Hawaiian (and the Emergence of a Neo-Hawaiian Language), i've read that and it really influenced my strategy/goals with Hawaiian. I had been aware that it was a bit of a controversial issue in the Hawaiian language sphere, but i didn't really understand why. If that's not the thesis you were referring to, i'd love to read it if you can still remember what it was and find it!

Nope, that's it exactly! It's a very interesting read I think everyone should read.

As for why it's controversial, I think it's because people tie up their identity so much in minority languages. I know it's true for Irish speakers, dubbing themselves "Gaelgeoir" (a term I don't use, even though I'm one in the native sense -- a person who comes to the Gaeltacht to learn Irish; native speakers don't call themselves that) and often making it a central part of their identity. Then, here they are being told "Well, you're actually basically just speaking the language wrong and natives don't get it, but yours is a lot like English." And, much like the situation in Irish, learners vastly outnumber natives, and natives are often from lower socioeconomic classes, so it comes as a bit of a sting. In Irish, it's often represented by the (wrong) "It's my dialect" excuse. So they often see it as an attack on their identity, sometimes also their indigenousness (I am native Hawaiian, I speak Hawaiian it can't be wrong or that different, etc.) It's a hugely controversial issue in Irish too, with the phrase "Is fearr Gaeilge bhriste ná Béarla cliste" (Broken Irish is better than clever English) often bandied around anytime someone dares to correct something. Ironically, they often misspell it (Gaeilge briste) which translates to something as "It's better Irish be broken than the English be clever"...which is exactly what they're happy with -- Irish being broken, and not being Irish (because it's basically English in all guises except words).

That sounds amazing! I don't know if you're 100% satisfied with your Irish yet so it would be a shame to leave if that's the case, but regardless it seems like you'd have a lot going for you in either place.

Thanks! My Irish isn't where I'd like, but the issue is I won't be able to achieve the level I want in Dublin. I've searched around and there's very few of the major groups that even employ native speaking teachers, and none offer pronunciation classes, even one-on-one private tutoring. So staying in Dublin won't really help me, and the cost of living just keeps rising. Plus, being home for the holidays makes it harder and harder to go back. So everything's still up in the air at the moment. We'll just have to see what the year holds (I'm applying to international schools too, as a backup backup plan).