A Polymath Focuses on Japanese, 2019

[Xenops]

I've come to report, that...I have nothing to report.

My interest in French has been petering out, sadly. It's not due to the story I shared earlier (actually, I don't think about that incident much at all), but rather because I feel like I don't have concrete goals as to what I want to accomplish, with European languages at least. My main problem is I have too many options: if I was to move overseas by being a student, would I want to go to a PhD program, a medical program, or a graduate program related to my medical laboratory science degree? Even if I pick one of these three options, then I have to consider: where would I want to do this program? Would I want to do it in English or the local tongue? Would I consider English-speaking countries? Previously my conviction in learning French was firm, but that was when I had certain goals in a French-speaking country. Now I'm not so sure. I'll need to think on this more.

Conversely, because I've been working on my constructed language, and I really like vowel-harmony and want to include it, I've considered taking up a vowel-harmony language for funsies, either Manchu with it's limited harmony or Turkish with it's full onslaught of vowel-harmony. Even though it's expected that people that make conlangs are fluent in some languages, I have found on the FB group that many are just linguists who pick and chose features to include in their projects, and only learn languages superficially. I personally like learning a language to learn how it works rather than just reading about it. I might be able to make the Turkish a Free and Legal Challenge as well, since I have Turkish speakers at church.

I have also spent some study time for my ASCP test again, especially since my application is considered for a bacteriologist position in a cool lab. I'm making Anki cards with the Cloze option, as this is the only way to motivate me to continue on Anki (making a game of it).

For other language news, I started a series on Netflix called "Hotel Beau Séjour", and despite its title and that it's made in Belgium, it is not in French, but in Dutch. It's just the sort of show I've been in the mood for.

[Xenops]

I discovered that languages can get jealous. I watched some videos on Turkish phonology, and the desire to return to French became strong enough to pick it up again. Perhaps I need to make it jealous more often.

I finished chapter 11 of French in Action, and even though we've known about Mireille and Robert being the principle characters since the first chapter, they don't actually meet until chapter 12. I have so far found chapter 11 and 12 much easier than chapters 9 and 10. With 9 and 10, I felt I got lost in the new vocab, and didn't follow what was going on: with 11 and 12, they have lots of weather terms, which I'm familiar with, and are easier to comprehend overall.

I started R-Ling with the Louis Segond Bible that was revised in the 1970's, and I found matching audio online for this version. First I read the L1 text, then L2 and L1 as dual texts, and then listen and read to L2, and maybe do the dual texts again. I anticipate that I'll revisit old chapters after trying out new ones, a step forward and a step back, and so on.

In regards to writing practice, I started a short-story in French that I'll share soon. I'll probably have the English translation as well, so the non-French learners can read along as well, and so people can deduce what I'm trying to say.

I finished the Flemish show "Hotel Beau Séjour", and I enjoyed it. I don't love it like I did with Les Revenants, but to its credit, it is far more family-friendly (think PG-13). I though the writing was pretty tight, and it was a fresh take on ghosts trying to solve their own murders. There were parts that I didn't find believable, but overall it is a much better show than much what the U.S.A. produces.

[Xenops]

Lately, I confess, I have struggled with motivation. The Japanese bug has bitten me hard lately, and even though I initially gave myself permission to study it, I feel that I should not. My faith tells me that I am to focus on Europe, and studying Japanese would distract me with luring me to Japan rather. If French is my husband, then Japanese is my lover, as far as appeal and goals. Continuing with this metaphor, I will stay with French, as I feel that where my focus should be. I'm trusting God that studying French will bring me something more satisfying than what I think Japanese will bring me.

I also found this advice to be really solid:

Having said that, I'm currently in China and focussing my energies on Mandarin Chinese for pretty much the same reason and based on this experience, I would advise you not to satiate your wanderlust with the beginning stage of such an unrelated language, because it is an absolute energy and time sink. I personally would save Mandarin for later and satisfy the itch with a different language that meets one of the following three criteria:

1) You are already at least B1 (i.e.. have already mastered basic grammar and pronunciation).
2) It is related to a language you already speak (like German was for me).
3) You are just curious and don't necessarily plan to ever reach a high level in the language and so are not scared of fossilisation of pronunciation and basic grammar errors, etc (I think most of us have "dabbling" languages like this).

With Japanese, I can easily see it overtaking my interest in French. Just to add variety and be a contrast to French, I've considered options 1) and 3). For 1), that would likely be Spanish, but for an interesting challenge, I would focus on Castilian Spanish, since I've lost interest in Latin American Spanish. For option 3), I've considered Turkish and Persian. I probably could do the "Free and Legal Challenge" with these, but since I already have a couple of books, and because I like to make up my own rules, I would probably do something like "Study Turkish Under $20", or something. Either one of these would satisfy my linguistic curiosity. Or maybe both.

For other news, I don't know when I first started watching My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic in English...one or two years ago? I found the first two seasons mildly entertaining, where I would watch an episode or two a month when the mood hits me. For seasons one and two, there is only the English track and a sad Spanish track. At the end of season two, however, I started to really enjoy it, and I thought "oh no, I'm enjoy a show in English--I need to repent of my use of time". From season three on, however, there are multiple languages available, including French. Contrary to French dubbing of Pokemon and The X-Files, both of which have spot-on French counterparts, it took a little getting used to the French voices for MLP. Applejack and Rainbow Dash now sound very similar, and Pinkie Pie has a greater voice range. But now I have accepted them, and the stories I think I are better in seasons three and four. Yes, while it took me years to finish the first two seasons, I've binged on seasons three and four in French and finished them this month.

I'm also thinking I need to add specific grammar practice to FiA: this course has some, but a completely immersive process doesn't work for me. I'm thinking DLI is the course I need, as it has grammar and audio. I see language learning like learning how to play a game: learning while playing is fine, but I appreciate explicit rules from the get-go.

I've had some of these books for a while, and some I just got, so I finally made time to take pictures and share.


The English and French editions are only a year apart, and the translations are pretty close. Because of the shared vocab in the sciences, I find this easier extensive reading than most.

Upon discovery that my French in Action workbook part 2 is the 1987 edition, and having the rest of the materials in the 1994 edition, I decided to specifically purchase the 1994 edition of the workbook. You can see the differences:






I guess paper thickness counts for something, since there's such a difference in thickness, but not in page count? Also the newer edition seems to have more space in general.

[Ani]

That's super interesting to compare the editions of FIA. I have two text books that I thought were part a & part b but turns out one is part a and the other is complete, although they are pretty similar in size. I'm just going to get rid of the part a only text I guess.

[Xenops]

That's super interesting to compare the editions of FIA. I have two text books that I thought were part a & part b but turns out one is part a and the other is complete, although they are pretty similar in size. I'm just going to get rid of the part a only text I guess.

I forgot to mention that the newer edition does have the text interpretation exercises at the end of a chapter: you are given a poem or a statistical information, and you try to extract information from the passages.

For updates, sadly, I have officially given French a break. This was a hard decision, because I had convictions earlier that I was supposed to learn this language. Reading through my journal, however, I could not find "evidence" that convinces my present self. Reading through the journal, it appears that I have struggled with this language for a while. I also read a recent comment by iguanamon recently about how he doesn't care about having the most exciting learning materials, as the joy of the chase learning is what keeps him going. This made me think: "and here I am, trying to find the right method to make my learning more fun". I had no thrill of the learning: French hasn't made my heart sing for a while. Referring to an older post of mine, I had to consider the advice, and put French on the shelf for now.

Some other factors contributed to my frustration:

1. Not liking my early resources. Using the materials with the most praise for learning French on this site--Assimil and French in Action--I expected to find myself in the majority and appreciate these resources...I haven't, actually. I was having a discussion with a fellow language-learner, and she stated that the need for paradigms for structures in a language, probably stemming from her early lessons in classical Greek. I am the same way: I need to see the grammar rules as soon as possible. Assimilation, in short, drives my perfectionist tendencies nuts. Don't make me guess what the meaning is: give the dictionary definition, please.

2. No access to native speakers early on...Well, in Idaho, what can you expect. This resulted to not knowing how to pronounce or how to correct my pronunciation until months later when I moved to Boston, much less speaking practice with any advanced speakers.

3. Too many interruptions/taking too long to learn. I started studying when I was also studying for my medical laboratory science degree, which resulted in my taking longer to finish a FiA chapter, or having periods where I didn't study much at all. Combined with high expectations of myself, I find myself frustrated that I can't read a French novel already. I'm still an outsider looking in the culture. I read about Gabriel Wyner and our own smallwhite making fast progress, and I have not had the opportunity to do so myself.

4. No definite need. Earlier I posted a thread about traveling Europe. I was hoping that going to possible destination countries that spoke French might cement the desire to learn the language. I decided against the trip, and subsequently realized that the trip might not help me. I also considered going to France or Belgium to enter their med schools: but upon researching and getting feedback, I decided against this. Despite the tuition being very low, and having no entrance exams, there are continuation exams: you need to score really high (top 10%) to continue. The last exam decides if you get to be a surgeon, a doctor, or...A dentist. Apparently there is a lot of stress with such exams. Since I might spend time at X French school only to not to get a degree, or even a degree that I want, and it's stressful unto death (literally), I can't say this is a gamble I'm willing to take.

So there you have it. Perhaps I was supposed to learn it: perhaps I was called to learn it for a little while: perhaps I will get back to it. I can't say that faith convictions are crystal-clear (I don't think they ever are). I think part of my persistence was also pride: I wanted to get at least one language to a high level. I remember praying from time to time "Lord, don't ask me to learn something else, because I want to succeed in this language". Perhaps not the most submissive attitude.

As I mentioned in this post, I've considered the English medical programs in Italy...I've actually considered these since I first learned about 5 years ago. If French was still on the table, my plan was to learn French to a high level before tackling Italian. But since my interest in French has died for the time being, that leaves the possibility for finally studying Italian. The reasons these programs sound appealing is because they are affordable and they have an entrance exam that places you in a program.

Still, there are concerns. They could very well be a method of easy cash for the universities selling degrees, being no different from similar degrees sold by Turkey, the Czech Republic, etc. I will pay attention to feedback I receive from the FB study group, as there are members that have successfully completed the degrees and have gone on to residencies in the UK, Germany and Italy. I also asked for input on how a non-EU person, provided her Italian is good, could apply for the med school programs taught in Italian, or if a person could transfer from the English program into the Italian. As much research, thinking and praying as I can manage will go into this decision.

[smallwhite]

I read about Gabriel Wyner and our own smallwhite making fast progress, ...

You put my name next to the only youtube polyglot that I dislike. Wyner would tell you that he did 45 minutes a day for 3.5 months and then placed into level X, when the 45 mins is only the time of his train ride where he does his flashcard reps. The initial learning of the information and the 11+ activities he does at home including lang-8, he does not count. If I counted his way I learnt Turkish to B1 in 5.5 hours. I count everything including admin work in L1, and for vocabulary that means I count time spent on the Memrise website looking for courses - even if I end up not finding any.

Umm... what were you saying?

I set a goal with time and date, eg. B2 in 360 days x 3 hours, and study for it the same way you study for an exam that you can't defer. I divide the things-to-do by the days-I-have, eg. 8000 words / 360 days = 22 words/day. And maybe 120 days for A2, 120 days for B1, 120 days for B2 to total 360 days. So there are short-term goals to meet. Cramming A2 in 120 days is easier than how we used to cram Financial Accounting 303 in the 7 days just before the exam, so if everyone could do the latter, I can do the former. If FiA takes one to A2 but takes more than 120 days, I don't use FiA. There's life after B2 and I don't have to learn everything that's classified as B2 now. I do not need to learn them 150% well either. I just need to learn enough A2 stuff to be able to progress to B1, then enough B1 stuff to be able to progress to B2. I did not learn everything about accounting in my 3-year degree, and I had forgotten half of what I did learn by the time I found my first accounting job. A book like Ultimate French Review & Practice more or less covers the B2 syllabus for grammar, a Berlitz vocabulary book for vocabulary, and 360 days should be enough to learn both books with time left for listening practice. Anything else is not necessarily necessary, for now.

[Xenops]

I read about Gabriel Wyner and our own smallwhite making fast progress, ...

You put my name next to the only youtube polyglot that I dislike. Wyner would tell you that he did 45 minutes a day for 3.5 months and then placed into level X, when the 45 mins is only the time of his train ride where he does his flashcard reps. The initial learning of the information and the 11+ activities he does at home including lang-8, he does not count. If I counted his way I learnt Turkish to B1 in 5.5 hours. I count everything including admin work in L1, and for vocabulary that means I count time spent on the Memrise website looking for courses - even if I end up not finding any.

Umm... what were you saying?

I assure you, I am only comparing the two of you based on your speed, not on your methods or personality. My apologies if I inadvertently offended you, as that was not my intention.

set a goal with time and date, eg. B2 in 360 days x 3 hours, and study for it the same way you study for an exam that you can't defer. I divide the things-to-do by the days-I-have, eg. 8000 words / 360 days = 22 words/day. And maybe 120 days for A2, 120 days for B1, 120 days for B2 to total 360 days. So there are short-term goals to meet. Cramming A2 in 120 days is easier than how we used to cram Financial Accounting 303 in the 7 days just before the exam, so if everyone could do the latter, I can do the former. If FiA takes one to A2 but takes more than 120 days, I don't use FiA. There's life after B2 and I don't have to learn everything that's classified as B2 now. I do not need to learn them 150% well either. I just need to learn enough A2 stuff to be able to progress to B1, then enough B1 stuff to be able to progress to B2. I did not learn everything about accounting in my 3-year degree, and I had forgotten half of what I did learn by the time I found my first accounting job. A book like Ultimate French Review & Practice more or less covers the B2 syllabus for grammar, a Berlitz vocabulary book for vocabulary, and 360 days should be enough to learn both books with time left for listening practice. Anything else is not necessarily necessary, for now.

This is an awesome breakdown of your study methods. Thank you for sharing.

Edit: Do you actually take each test, or do you take an online approximate/free test?

[smallwhite]

I assure you, I am only comparing the two of you based on your speed, not on your methods or personality. My apologies if I inadvertently offended you, as that was not my intention.

Do you actually take each test, or do you take an online approximate/free test?

No apologies needed. I welcomed the opportunity to vent

I've only taken an actual test for French (C1). The others would be as official as possible, eg. past or sample papers from the official Spanish DELE website, except last year I used Dialang for Greek like all the cool kids do. But I've always been able to estimate my level quite accurately (or even other people's), so actually taking any test is more just to make it official when I record my progress or when I tell others about it.

[Cavesa]

Those two versions of anatomy and physiology look like a great learning tool

1. Not liking my early resources. Using the materials with the most praise for learning French on this site--Assimil and French in Action--I expected to find myself in the majority and appreciate these resources...I haven't, actually. I was having a discussion with a fellow language-learner, and she stated that the need for paradigms for structures in a language, probably stemming from her early lessons in classical Greek. I am the same way: I need to see the grammar rules as soon as possible. Assimilation, in short, drives my perfectionist tendencies nuts. Don't make me guess what the meaning is: give the dictionary definition, please.

I can definitely agree on that. If you ever decide to continue with French, I recommend getting the Progressive books instead or alongside other courses.

Still, there are concerns. They could very well be a method of easy cash for the universities selling degrees, being no different from similar degrees sold by Turkey, the Czech Republic, etc. I will pay attention to feedback I receive from the FB study group, as there are members that have successfully completed the degrees and have gone on to residencies in the UK, Germany and Italy. I also asked for input on how a non-EU person, provided her Italian is good, could apply for the med school programs taught in Italian, or if a person could transfer from the English program into the Italian. As much research, thinking and praying as I can manage will go into this decision.

Don't count on the feedback from people with this kind of degree. Sure, perhaps some of the positive reviews will be true, but some could just be the unwillingness to say "nah, I just failed to get to the faculty in my country, so I paid and had easier exams than the locals, and I didn't bother with the language at all, so I got no real practice". Judging by the "English" students in Prague, they may not even realise the differences. The students here really think they have it hard (the Erasmus studying with them don't, the older students teaching some groups don't, and no regular student having encountered an English one during the practical lessons or exams does). And they also find it completely ok not to speak any Czech ("But the classes suck, it is the faculty's fault. And why should I learn Czech anyways, I already speak two languages and Czech is not impotant", all this coming from people spending six years here).

A better way is to look other kinds of feedback, but it is sometimes hard or nearly impossible. The most findable tends to be anecdotal evidence in the media, not even the large exams like ECN present a results analysis to the public, especially not concerning the foreigners. I've heard some regions in Italy have exams like ECN, just on a smaller scale (and less horrible), so perhaps asking about those and the results of the English degree students could work. Or finding out some large clinics in other countries that take a lot of foreigners, and asking them directly.

It is hard to find someone to ask. The faculties won't tell you the truth either, of course the official version will always be "we are an institution of international prestige, that's why the foreigners come here to our beautiful city. And of course they learn our language, they have an exam of it, and of course we demand the same knowledge and skills from them as from the locals."

Anyways, I think Italian could actually solve a lot of the problems you have with French. There are high quality resources available (but a smaller amount, compared to French), there are lots of natives in various places (and might be less switching), you are considering trying an Italian university, and there are tons of stuff to love about the culture (but of course also the negative stuff, like everywhere).

[Xenops]

Well, as the Japanese say, 久しぶりです (it's been a while).

This has been one of the most challenging months I've experienced in a long time. I have been frustrated because I have been jobless for some months and because even though I wanted to study a European language so I can move to Europe, I've had absolutely no enthusiasm for French nor Italian. My dreams of paying off my loans, saving up money and going to a medical school in Europe weren't happening. I've been more depressed than I have been for at least two years. I think this quote is quite applicable:

God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our consciences, but shouts in our pains.
--C.S. Lewis

As I mentioned a few times before, I've felt this tug o' war between my desire to learn Japanese and move to Japan, and moving to France or Italy and continue my education. I went to Japan on a month long missions trip in 2011, and part of the purpose was to see if I could see myself living there: the answer was Yes. But the only opportunities seemed to be 1. become a missionary, 2. have a transferable profession and speak Japanese like a native, even though I was never be accepted as one. I considered the second option for a long time, but between nay-sayers in my life and my own realism, I abandoned it. I never seriously considered the first option: being a missionary isn't respectable, it isn't a real job, or so I thought.

So I moved on to consider continuing my education in Europe. Moving there and being accepted as one of their own, even with an accent, was possible. All of the languages I could pick would be easier than a completely foreign language like Japanese. Medical school is much more affordable than in the U.S., and I could get a higher degree and get a respectable job. I pursue my dream of being a surgeon and satisfy my interests in medical sciences, be an admired member of the community, and even garner the respect of my family, particularly my father and sister.

Enter 2018, with every attempt to make my "dream" come true is frustrated. I was confused and bitter, as I thought God was calling me to move to Europe...But during this time of pain, I realized I wasn't acting according to my faith, but according to my striving to win acceptance from my family members. I also feel the pressure from my American culture (I'm sure how rampant it is in other cultures?) that if I don't accomplish my young adult dream, no matter how hard or easy it is, then I'm a failure. I'm a disappointment to everyone. How dare I give up on a dream and accept an easier route?

...On the other hand, the acceptance of the fact that I'm no less of a person if I change plans, if I follow a plan that doesn't include constantly struggling to be on top, if I have a choice to give up my "dream", has only given me relief. I can be free of a burden I don't know if I could handle.

I still love medical science, particularly surgery: some of my happiest moments were in a unique course at my community college. In this course we borrowed human cadavers from the nearby university, and with a retired MD as our instructor, we students dissected the female and male cadaver. The female had a previous hysterectomy, and the male had a previous cardiac bypass surgery and had a pacer put in. I also had the opportunity to shadow surgeons into the operating room. In my writing of the script for my second comic, I have included lots of surgery scenes. But I have to realize that the medical school road is long and hard, even more so if I want to take the course in a foreign language. Unless I have an other worldly fervor, I can't realistically see myself succeeding in this path.

So I am considering the Japanese missionary route. In contrast to the European route, where I struggled to find enthusiasm to learn French or Italian, my thirst for Japanese can't be sated. Like medical school, learning this language would be an arduous task for the person that doesn't have the drive: but with enough energy, either is possible. For me, the language is more possible than the medical school route. Interestingly, my interest in French has increased with my decision to not move to Europe. So I'll learn it along side Japanese, but the Asian language will be my focus.

For other news, I have volunteered at the Japanese church's ESL class, which is principally of Japanese ladies. The instructor has appreciated my help, and I seem to have a knack for teaching English. During one class, a Japanese lady bemoaned how her strong-willed daughter was failing her ESL and English classes. I offered to tutor the daughter. I have met with the daughter twice a week, and I have not found her a challenge, and for one English quiz she had to remember such words like:

Potentous
Nefarious
Savvy
Rampant
Caustic
etc.

I didn't even know the first one. But remembering all of the language learning tips I have accumulated from LLorg, I had her associate each word with a character she was familiar with: I showed her a clip of Captain Jack Sparrow using the word ''savvy"; Naruto's demon power can be "rampant"; the Wicked Witch of the West found the soap water to be "caustic"; etc. I am pleased to say that the mom sent me pictures of her vocab test, and the daughter scored 93% on her test.

On Saturday I will meet another Japanese lady to see about my tutoring her two daughters. I have also gotten help from my church regarding my job search.

Well, I think that's a long enough update, dontcha think?