CarlyD's 2018/2019 German log

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CarlyD
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Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby CarlyD » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:45 am

I was asked to provide a copy of the spreadsheet that I'm using for my 365-day challenge, but couldn't figure out how to attach it to a private message, so I'm hopefully going to be putting it here. Although I'd rather do something like this in Excel, I use a 5x8 grid notebook for my language stuff, so handwritten seemed to work better. I list all my activities down the left side--Memrise, textbook, etc. and they can change from month to month so I leave it blank until I start that page.

Also, for my own purposes, I marked the checkpoints to use during the 365 days. Hopefully they're correct.

January 30th--30 days
March 1st--60 days
March 30th--90 days
April 30th--120 days
May 30th--150 days
June 29th--180 days
July 29th--210 days
August 29th--240 days
September 27th--270 days
October 27th--300 days
November 26th--330 days
December 31st--365 days

On the language front, I'm currently in a war with Duolingo over their Dative section, in which I'm determined to get my 5 crowns and they're determined to make me crazy. At the moment, they're winning.

Ok, this site says a picture of a piece of paper is "file too large." I give up. :P

If you go to Flickr and look for "365-Day Challenge" it should come up.
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Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby SGP » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:08 am

CarlyD wrote:On the language front, I'm currently in a war with Duolingo over their Dative section, in which I'm determined to get my 5 crowns and they're determined to make me crazy. At the moment, they're winning.

The Dative is as easy as the other three cases.
What I really, really recommend would be to gather a (small) collection of example sentences. No matter if they are taken from The Mean Green Owl or from elsewhere. Then you could underline any Die Vier Fälle words, and their prepositions/etc. (if applicable).

If I would be doing something like this (related to another Case Language), I'd color-code the different cases. And as for the prepositions, I would use the same color (or black / gray) for all of them. Unless I knew for sure that a specific preposition only would be used for one case, rather than two or even more. And knowing that for sure isn't always that easy.

Revising some sentences like these can be much more helpful than simply memorizing some usage examples. Because while there is some In-Language Logic to these cases, it isn't something that already becomes clear at first glance. It is hidden below the tip of the iceberg, rather than above. That's why it can be mixed up easily when trying to Rote Memorize it. Don't know your method, but just saying. What has been described in this post is what I did with Spanish (in a similar way) to understand these prepositions and conjunctions some more.
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CarlyD
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Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby CarlyD » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:18 pm

SGP wrote:
CarlyD wrote:On the language front, I'm currently in a war with Duolingo over their Dative section, in which I'm determined to get my 5 crowns and they're determined to make me crazy. At the moment, they're winning.

The Dative is as easy as the other three cases.
What I really, really recommend would be to gather a (small) collection of example sentences. No matter if they are taken from The Mean Green Owl or from elsewhere. Then you could underline any Die Vier Fälle words, and their prepositions/etc. (if applicable).

If I would be doing something like this (related to another Case Language), I'd color-code the different cases. And as for the prepositions, I would use the same color (or black / gray) for all of them. Unless I knew for sure that a specific preposition only would be used for one case, rather than two or even more. And knowing that for sure isn't always that easy.

Revising some sentences like these can be much more helpful than simply memorizing some usage examples. Because while there is some In-Language Logic to these cases, it isn't something that already becomes clear at first glance. It is hidden below the tip of the iceberg, rather than above. That's why it can be mixed up easily when trying to Rote Memorize it. Don't know your method, but just saying. What has been described in this post is what I did with Spanish (in a similar way) to understand these prepositions and conjunctions some more.


I like your idea--thank you. I think the biggest part of the problem with Datives on Duolingo is they only have a few sentences that they do over and over again so you end up memorizing the sentence without grasping the concept.

I have plenty of grammar books I can look through for sentence examples.
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Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby Cavesa » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:29 pm

Thanks for bringing the 365 challenge to the forum, Carly!
I think it is a worthy successor to our beloved yet most probably buried TAC.
You may have caused a small revolution in our community.

CarlyD wrote:I like your idea--thank you. I think the biggest part of the problem with Datives on Duolingo is they only have a few sentences that they do over and over again so you end up memorizing the sentence without grasping the concept.

I have plenty of grammar books I can look through for sentence examples.


Yeah, that is the problem of Duolingo. I would actually find it to be a great tool, if they added many more sentences, especially one's you get past the few first skills. Btw, how do you like their new design changes?
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Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby SGP » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:29 pm

CarlyD wrote:I like your idea--thank you.

Nicht dafür.

(Did you ever hear this reply to "Danke?")

I think the biggest part of the problem with Datives on Duolingo is they only have a few sentences that they do over and over again so you end up memorizing the sentence without grasping the concept.

I have plenty of grammar books I can look through for sentence examples.
That really could facilitate things. Again, it is about the bigger picture. Something comparable (although not 1:1) is understanding the difference between (ES) para and por, ser and estar, etc.

And there also is a key word key phrase that is connected to this whole Die Vier Fälle Thing.
It is: Der Genitiv ist dem Dativ sein Tod.

("dem Dativ sein" is a colloquial way of saying "of the Dative").
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CarlyD
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Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby CarlyD » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:36 pm

Cavesa wrote:Thanks for bringing the 365 challenge to the forum, Carly!
I think it is a worthy successor to our beloved yet most probably buried TAC.
You may have caused a small revolution in our community.


I always loved the TAC--for the month of January that it seemed to last. Plus I remember being told that "you had to be at least intermediate" to succeed in the TAC, which never made sense.

We'll have to see if the revolution lasts past January. I'll still be in, hopefully some others will be too.
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Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby CarlyD » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:48 pm

SGP wrote:
CarlyD wrote:I like your idea--thank you.

Nicht dafür.

(Did you ever hear this reply to "Danke?")


SGP wrote:That really could facilitate things. Again, it is about the bigger picture. Something comparable (although not 1:1) is understanding the difference between (ES) para and por, ser and estar, etc.

And there also is a key word key phrase that is connected to this whole Die Vier Fälle Thing.
It is: Der Genitiv ist dem Dativ sein Tod.

("dem Dativ sein" is a colloquial way of saying "of the Dative").


I've never heard of Nicht dafür--and Google translate says it means "do not agree." So maybe an idiom I haven't seen yet?

When I was doing Spanish, there was an author that wrote smallish one-subject books, and he did a Ser vs. Estar and one for Por/Para. Very readable and made perfect sense. The textbooks seemed to always gloss over them and give the easiest explanation and ignore all the exceptions. I think you have to get to a level where something just "seems" right. Not there yet for Spanish or German, sigh.

I actually did the German textbook chapter on Datives a bit ago and it made a lot of sense. Then I got to the Dative section on Duolingo and I think it set me back. I'm going to re-do the textbook chapter in a couple of weeks--I'm going back and reviewing previous chapters right now. I think Duolingo just makes it harder than it needs to be. Not sure why I don't just walk away from it--probably because I belong to the Facebook Duolingo group and everyone else seems to be sailing right through and I keep thinking if they can do it, why can't I? (Of course then I picture the guy that posts screenshots of his 1000 day Duolingo streak and still can't make a sentence. :lol:

Ok, my quotes in the right places didn't work out like they should have, and I don't see the error. :P
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Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby SGP » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:11 pm

CarlyD wrote:I've never heard of Nicht dafür--and Google translate says it means "do not agree." So maybe an idiom I haven't seen yet?
"Nicht dafür" is a partial sentence, and not a complete one, because there is no subject and no verb. But just as any other 1/2 of a sentence, it can be used to express a complete sentence's meaning because of the context.

When used for disagreeing to something, it literally means "not for [it]", i.e. "against it".

And when (colloquially) used as a reply to "Danke", it means "no reason to thank me for that", just as EN "don't mention it", (ES) "de nada" and (FR) "de rien".
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Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby Kat » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:40 am

I just looked "Nicht dafür" up because I'd never heard it before either.

The Internet claims it's a regional term that's used in Northern Germany, particularly in Hamburg.
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Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby SGP » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:56 am

Kat wrote:I just looked "Nicht dafür" up because I'd never heard it before either.

The Internet claims it's a regional term that's used in Northern Germany, particularly in Hamburg.

"The Internet" is right in this case. It is Very Northern indeed.
And yes, there are two variants. "Nicht dafür" and "dafür nicht".
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