CarlyD's 2018/2019 German log

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
SGP
Blue Belt
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:33 pm
Languages: DE (native), EN (C2), ES (B2), FR (B2); some more at various levels
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 30#p120230
x 293

Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby SGP » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:08 am

CarlyD wrote:On the language front, I'm currently in a war with Duolingo over their Dative section, in which I'm determined to get my 5 crowns and they're determined to make me crazy. At the moment, they're winning.

The Dative is as easy as the other three cases.
What I really, really recommend would be to gather a (small) collection of example sentences. No matter if they are taken from The Mean Green Owl or from elsewhere. Then you could underline any Die Vier Fälle words, and their prepositions/etc. (if applicable).

If I would be doing something like this (related to another Case Language), I'd color-code the different cases. And as for the prepositions, I would use the same color (or black / gray) for all of them. Unless I knew for sure that a specific preposition only would be used for one case, rather than two or even more. And knowing that for sure isn't always that easy.

Revising some sentences like these can be much more helpful than simply memorizing some usage examples. Because while there is some In-Language Logic to these cases, it isn't something that already becomes clear at first glance. It is hidden below the tip of the iceberg, rather than above. That's why it can be mixed up easily when trying to Rote Memorize it. Don't know your method, but just saying. What has been described in this post is what I did with Spanish (in a similar way) to understand these prepositions and conjunctions some more.
0 x
Previously known as SGP. But my mental username now is langmon.

Log


User avatar
CarlyD
Blue Belt
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:44 pm
Location: California, USA
Languages: English (N), Spanish--A2, German--now studying, A2
x 1323

Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby CarlyD » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:18 pm

SGP wrote:
CarlyD wrote:On the language front, I'm currently in a war with Duolingo over their Dative section, in which I'm determined to get my 5 crowns and they're determined to make me crazy. At the moment, they're winning.

The Dative is as easy as the other three cases.
What I really, really recommend would be to gather a (small) collection of example sentences. No matter if they are taken from The Mean Green Owl or from elsewhere. Then you could underline any Die Vier Fälle words, and their prepositions/etc. (if applicable).

If I would be doing something like this (related to another Case Language), I'd color-code the different cases. And as for the prepositions, I would use the same color (or black / gray) for all of them. Unless I knew for sure that a specific preposition only would be used for one case, rather than two or even more. And knowing that for sure isn't always that easy.

Revising some sentences like these can be much more helpful than simply memorizing some usage examples. Because while there is some In-Language Logic to these cases, it isn't something that already becomes clear at first glance. It is hidden below the tip of the iceberg, rather than above. That's why it can be mixed up easily when trying to Rote Memorize it. Don't know your method, but just saying. What has been described in this post is what I did with Spanish (in a similar way) to understand these prepositions and conjunctions some more.


I like your idea--thank you. I think the biggest part of the problem with Datives on Duolingo is they only have a few sentences that they do over and over again so you end up memorizing the sentence without grasping the concept.

I have plenty of grammar books I can look through for sentence examples.
1 x
2024 15,000 pages Reading Challenge--pages: 1180 / 15000

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby Cavesa » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:29 pm

Thanks for bringing the 365 challenge to the forum, Carly!
I think it is a worthy successor to our beloved yet most probably buried TAC.
You may have caused a small revolution in our community.

CarlyD wrote:I like your idea--thank you. I think the biggest part of the problem with Datives on Duolingo is they only have a few sentences that they do over and over again so you end up memorizing the sentence without grasping the concept.

I have plenty of grammar books I can look through for sentence examples.


Yeah, that is the problem of Duolingo. I would actually find it to be a great tool, if they added many more sentences, especially one's you get past the few first skills. Btw, how do you like their new design changes?
0 x

User avatar
SGP
Blue Belt
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:33 pm
Languages: DE (native), EN (C2), ES (B2), FR (B2); some more at various levels
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 30#p120230
x 293

Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby SGP » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:29 pm

CarlyD wrote:I like your idea--thank you.

Nicht dafür.

(Did you ever hear this reply to "Danke?")

I think the biggest part of the problem with Datives on Duolingo is they only have a few sentences that they do over and over again so you end up memorizing the sentence without grasping the concept.

I have plenty of grammar books I can look through for sentence examples.
That really could facilitate things. Again, it is about the bigger picture. Something comparable (although not 1:1) is understanding the difference between (ES) para and por, ser and estar, etc.

And there also is a key word key phrase that is connected to this whole Die Vier Fälle Thing.
It is: Der Genitiv ist dem Dativ sein Tod.

("dem Dativ sein" is a colloquial way of saying "of the Dative").
0 x
Previously known as SGP. But my mental username now is langmon.

Log


User avatar
CarlyD
Blue Belt
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:44 pm
Location: California, USA
Languages: English (N), Spanish--A2, German--now studying, A2
x 1323

Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby CarlyD » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:36 pm

Cavesa wrote:Thanks for bringing the 365 challenge to the forum, Carly!
I think it is a worthy successor to our beloved yet most probably buried TAC.
You may have caused a small revolution in our community.


I always loved the TAC--for the month of January that it seemed to last. Plus I remember being told that "you had to be at least intermediate" to succeed in the TAC, which never made sense.

We'll have to see if the revolution lasts past January. I'll still be in, hopefully some others will be too.
0 x
2024 15,000 pages Reading Challenge--pages: 1180 / 15000

User avatar
CarlyD
Blue Belt
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:44 pm
Location: California, USA
Languages: English (N), Spanish--A2, German--now studying, A2
x 1323

Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby CarlyD » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:48 pm

SGP wrote:
CarlyD wrote:I like your idea--thank you.

Nicht dafür.

(Did you ever hear this reply to "Danke?")


SGP wrote:That really could facilitate things. Again, it is about the bigger picture. Something comparable (although not 1:1) is understanding the difference between (ES) para and por, ser and estar, etc.

And there also is a key word key phrase that is connected to this whole Die Vier Fälle Thing.
It is: Der Genitiv ist dem Dativ sein Tod.

("dem Dativ sein" is a colloquial way of saying "of the Dative").


I've never heard of Nicht dafür--and Google translate says it means "do not agree." So maybe an idiom I haven't seen yet?

When I was doing Spanish, there was an author that wrote smallish one-subject books, and he did a Ser vs. Estar and one for Por/Para. Very readable and made perfect sense. The textbooks seemed to always gloss over them and give the easiest explanation and ignore all the exceptions. I think you have to get to a level where something just "seems" right. Not there yet for Spanish or German, sigh.

I actually did the German textbook chapter on Datives a bit ago and it made a lot of sense. Then I got to the Dative section on Duolingo and I think it set me back. I'm going to re-do the textbook chapter in a couple of weeks--I'm going back and reviewing previous chapters right now. I think Duolingo just makes it harder than it needs to be. Not sure why I don't just walk away from it--probably because I belong to the Facebook Duolingo group and everyone else seems to be sailing right through and I keep thinking if they can do it, why can't I? (Of course then I picture the guy that posts screenshots of his 1000 day Duolingo streak and still can't make a sentence. :lol:

Ok, my quotes in the right places didn't work out like they should have, and I don't see the error. :P
0 x
2024 15,000 pages Reading Challenge--pages: 1180 / 15000

User avatar
SGP
Blue Belt
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:33 pm
Languages: DE (native), EN (C2), ES (B2), FR (B2); some more at various levels
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 30#p120230
x 293

Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby SGP » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:11 pm

CarlyD wrote:I've never heard of Nicht dafür--and Google translate says it means "do not agree." So maybe an idiom I haven't seen yet?
"Nicht dafür" is a partial sentence, and not a complete one, because there is no subject and no verb. But just as any other 1/2 of a sentence, it can be used to express a complete sentence's meaning because of the context.

When used for disagreeing to something, it literally means "not for [it]", i.e. "against it".

And when (colloquially) used as a reply to "Danke", it means "no reason to thank me for that", just as EN "don't mention it", (ES) "de nada" and (FR) "de rien".
1 x
Previously known as SGP. But my mental username now is langmon.

Log


User avatar
Kat
Orange Belt
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 9:33 am
Languages: German (N), English (advanced), Dutch (intermediate)
x 329

Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby Kat » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:40 am

I just looked "Nicht dafür" up because I'd never heard it before either.

The Internet claims it's a regional term that's used in Northern Germany, particularly in Hamburg.
1 x
Transcription challenge: 1. episode of De Ijzeren Eeuw (The Iron Century)
Minutes: 6 / 43

User avatar
SGP
Blue Belt
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:33 pm
Languages: DE (native), EN (C2), ES (B2), FR (B2); some more at various levels
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 30#p120230
x 293

Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby SGP » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:56 am

Kat wrote:I just looked "Nicht dafür" up because I'd never heard it before either.

The Internet claims it's a regional term that's used in Northern Germany, particularly in Hamburg.

"The Internet" is right in this case. It is Very Northern indeed.
And yes, there are two variants. "Nicht dafür" and "dafür nicht".
0 x
Previously known as SGP. But my mental username now is langmon.

Log


User avatar
CarlyD
Blue Belt
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:44 pm
Location: California, USA
Languages: English (N), Spanish--A2, German--now studying, A2
x 1323

Re: CarlyD's 2018 German log

Postby CarlyD » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:00 pm

And the first week of the 365-Day Challenge comes to a close.

I have 7 days, of course. My Memrise streak is now 211 days--thought I would lose it over the weekend with the storm and loss of power, but I did it really early before the storm started.

I'm seeing people posting that if you are in danger of losing your streak on Duolingo, they actually want you to pay money to maintain your streak. The ones I saw were 14.99 Euro or $6.99 US. Would that I would care that much.

Well, my "vacation" is over, and I'm back to doing more in German--but I have no plan. I need to sit and make some clear goals. I have "doing" goals (i.e. finish chapter 11 in textbook) but I need some goal like be able to write something or say something. Hopefully Bootcamp will be starting up again soon and maybe I can see what the group there thinks.

I'm waiting for some lower-level fiction books to arrive from Schoenhof's and then I need to get a reading list together for the Short Story Challenge. I have a crazy goal of one short story a week, so I'm hoping I'll end up with at least 20. (I always set my goals for way higher than I can achieve--then I end up with more than I thought I originally could do even if I don't make the crazy goal.)

Someone posted a meme on Facebook--I should have saved it. I understood Every. Single. Word.

It felt good. :D
5 x
2024 15,000 pages Reading Challenge--pages: 1180 / 15000


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests