Josquin's Classical Log - Graeca non leguntur

[Josquin]

If you decide to do OI, let me know! I've been looking to get into it myself, as I'd love to translate some of the old texts into Modern Irish, as I don't think many are.

Oh, I will be doing Old Irish at some point, but I don't know if now is the right time for it. Today, I did quite a lot of Greek and Hebrew and I figured it would probably be a bad idea to change languages now. Also, I'd probably need a higher level in Modern Irish, so it won't be influenced by Old Irish. What I'll be doing for the moment is reading about Old Norse and Old Irish, but not really start studying them. Too many languages are deadly. But the day will come for Old Irish (Tiocfaidh ár lá... ).

[Josquin]

MONDAY, 4 SEPTEMBER 2017

Okay, some more musing about my language learning strategy: As I already said, I don't really have a deeper motivation to learn Hebrew and Ancient Greek than finding both languages pretty interesting. I might fancy reading Plato, Aristotle, Herodotus, and the like in the original, but it's not really what motivates me. It's more the attraction of the languages themselves, their exotic and demanding grammar, their sound. For Irish, on the other hand, I have a strong motivation. I'm interested in Ireland, Irish history, literature, mythology, even in Celticism. Here, the problem is rather the dearth of intermediate resources than a lack of innate motivation.

So, while it seems tempting to go deeper into Irish by learning earlier stages of the language, there's the danger of confusing Old and Modern Irish. As I said, I will keep reading about Old Irish, but I probably won't start intensive studies for the time being. With Old Norse though, the case is clear. I'd be interested in reading some literature like the sagas or the Edda, but I won't start the language right now. I need to finish my Greek and Hebrew textbooks before that, otherwise I won't have enough closure with the aforementioned languages.

Gaeilge

I've completed two stories in Éigse Chonamara. They're nice old-fashioned ghost stories and authentic Irish folklore, which makes them twice as interesting. The recordings are good: clear native Connemara Irish without a trace of an English accent. I love the language as it was spoken back then in 1964. A pity it has undergone such decline since then and has mostly been replaced by heavily anglicized breac-Ghaeilge!

Ἑλληνική

Ancient Greek is going smoothly. I finished dialogue 6F in Reading Greek. The last three dialogues were adaptions of Plato's Euthydemus and dealt with the dialogic style of the sophists. The next readings are excerpts from Herodotus' Histories.

עברית

Okay, I somehow made my way through the status constructus. The rules are quite straightforward, but it might nevertheless become difficult to recognize a noun at first glance when it is in the constructus form. As I'm not planning to go deeper into Biblical studies, that should be no problem though. And one can still rely on the consonants, which normally remain unchanged as opposed to the vocalization.

I'm on lesson 19 in Lehrbuch Bibel-Hebräisch now, which deals with personal and interrogative pronouns. It's an easier unit, which gives space for taking breath. The translation and reading exercises are quite extensive though, so I haven't finished them yet. The next unit will deal with possessive suffixes, which also modify the vocalization patterns of nouns...

Norrǿnt

Reading about Viking history and the history of Old Norse in Altnordisch 1. Quite interesting!

Goídelc

Reading about Old Irish phonology and other grammatical features in Sengoídelc and The Celtic Languages. Also very interesting! I'm probably going to read some Irish sagas, such as the Táin, in translation soon. It will take some time before I'll be able to read them in the original though!

[MorkTheFiddle]

Having once studied Old Norse myself, though it now lies very dormant, I look forward to your new adventures in the language. I recommend "Hrafnkells saga Freysgoða" if you haven't already read it.
For Ancient Greek, I also used the JACT set of introductory books, though it was rather a long time ago. They served me well, and had I been able to continue with Ancient Greek, they would have eased the way to further reading. Before I put down the language for many years, I was able to stumble through Wasps by Aristophanes. Very, very funny, but it took me weeks to finish. I returned to the language three or four years ago, still struggle, found a couple of "classic" authors not all that good, but enjoy others.
Best of luck to you in your continuing studies of Old Norse, Irish or whatever.

[Josquin]

Having once studied Old Norse myself, though it now lies very dormant, I look forward to your new adventures in the language. I recommend "Hrafnkells saga Freysgoða" if you haven't already read it.

Thanks for dropping by in my log! Yes, I already read Hrafnkels saga some time ago, when I first dealt with Icelandic and Old Norse. I think it was pretty straightforward and also comparably short. My dream would be reading Brennu-Njáls saga in the original, but I don't know if I have the stamina for that. It's really long.

For Ancient Greek, I also used the JACT set of introductory books, though it was rather a long time ago. They served me well, and had I been able to continue with Ancient Greek, they would have eased the way to further reading. Before I put down the language for many years, I was able to stumble through Wasps by Aristophanes. Very, very funny, but it took me weeks to finish. I returned to the language three or four years ago, still struggle, found a couple of "classic" authors not all that good, but enjoy others.

Yeah, I don't yet know what to read once I've finished Reading Greek. There is a series of annotated readers, also by JACT, which have caught my interest. After that, I'll probably try to read some Plato. I'd love to read Homer in the original, but Homeric Greek seems to be pretty different from classical Attic. An annotated version of the Odyssey would be heaven!

Best of luck to you in your continuing studies of Old Norse, Irish or whatever.

Thanks! The same to you!

[Systematiker]

An annotated version of the Odyssey would be heaven!

W.B. Stanford's annotated texts for students (2 volumes) is the longtime standard, Geoffrey Steadman's newer annotated edition with facing vocab also has flashcards and practice sheets free on his website, and for an easier entry, University of Michigan press publishes Draper's Odyssey Reader.

I never got good at Homeric, but it's on the list of things to do...

Edited because I can't spell

[MorkTheFiddle]

Thanks for dropping by in my log! Yes, I already read Hrafnkels saga some time ago, when I first dealt with Icelandic and Old Norse. I think it was pretty straightforward and also comparably short. My dream would be reading Brennu-Njáls saga in the original, but I don't know if I have the stamina for that. It's really long.

Reading Brennu-Njáls saga in the original was once a goal of mine, too, but I've lowered my sights to maybe someday reading it in parallel with an English translation.

Yeah, I don't yet know what to read once I've finished Reading Greek. There is a series of annotated readers, also by JACT, which have caught my interest. After that, I'll probably try to read some Plato. I'd love to read Homer in the original, but Homeric Greek seems to be pretty different from classical Attic. An annotated version of the Odyssey would be heaven!

The series of JACT annotated readers had not quite appeared when I finished the grammar and texts (or else I did not know about them). Now I would be inclined to go in that direction.
Systematiker mentions Steadman's selection from the Odyssey. Any of Steadman's commentaries would be suitable. I've used 3 or 4 of them and found them all quite helpful.
For pure unadulterated Ancient Greek, the easiest to understand that I found is Apollodorus's Library and Epitome, which you can find at Perseus.
Among historians, for ease of understanding I am reading the history by Diodorus Siculus, who unlike Herodotus doesn't wander off topic to discuss prostitution in Babylon and unlike Thucydides does not require the help of a committee of classical scholars to understand (though sooner or later you'll probably want to read them.)
Finally, there is the Bible, full of relatively easy Greek and full of stories in the first two books that are interesting in their own right whether or not one is a believer. But I know this is a delicate topic for some, so I will leave it at that.

I will finish by saying how impressed I am that you picked up on the musicality of Ancient Greek because of the vowels. It is something I had given only very limited thought to.

[Kotiro]

I'm interested in Old Irish too! I'm currently working on Gàidhlig but I'm hoping to have some time for Irish and a bit of Old Irish next year. Would be very interested to see how you go with it I also hope to study some Icelandic and Old Norse at some point.

[Josquin]

@Systematiker: Thank you! That's some very valuable information. I'll probably get the Odyssey Reader sooner or later. Looks like it suits my needs best.

@MorkTheFiddle: Thanks for your information as well! There's a lot to be considered once I finish Reading Greek. I don't mind reading the Bible. I'm reading it right now for Hebrew and I might go on doing so after finishing my textbook, but I must admit I'm not a very religious person despite being a Protestant. So, there would be other things I'd prefer to read, among them Greek philosophers, historians, and Homer. Also, I'm not completely sure how different Koine is from Attic, but I guess I'll have to deal with other varieties of Greek sooner or later anyway.

Concerning the musicality of Ancient Greek, it was something that struck me very soon, especially after having studied Latin before. Latin is a very logical and regular language, but it has this very dry and sober sound that's never been very agreeable to my ears. Greek, however, is much more melodious and enjoyable to listen to or read aloud. It might have sounded even more musically due to its tonal accent, which now is lost, of course. Anyway, it's just my subjective opinion, so feel free to agree or disagree.

@Kotiro: Good luck with your studies! We'll see when I'll have the time for Old Irish and Old Norse. At the moment, my plate is full as it is with Modern Irish, Ancient Greek, and Biblical Hebrew, but once I've finished my textbooks for the latter two, I should be able to start a new language.

[Josquin]

THURSDAY, 7 SEPTEMBER 2017

Okay, it seems I'm just not cut out for this whole 6WC business. After four weeks of constant studying, I just want to read German books and watch English series and movies now. I just can't be bothered to study if I don't feel like it. You may call it a lack of discipline or motivation, but I just say languages are my hobby and the last thing I need is pressure to study. Wow, that has come across more negatively than it was intended to, but you get my meaning. After four weeks of work I feel like I need a little bit of relaxation.

Gaeilge

I started to read the third story in Éigse Chonamara, which is called Dubhmhac agus Donnmhac. Also, I listened to the recordings of the first two stories, from which the written text was transcribed. As I said, very nice Irish and very agreeable to listen to!

In other news, I received a parcel from Ireland today with Ó Dónaill's Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla and de Bhaldraithe's English-Irish Dictionary. Now, my Irish library is very well equipped. Also, I'm expecting another parcel soon with Liam Ó Flaithearta's Dúil, a collection of short stories, and Diarmuid Johnson's Conaire Mór, a re-narration of an Old Irish saga.

Ἑλληνική

No progress in Ancient Greek. At the moment, my motivation is rather low.

עברית

I spent a great deal of time on Biblical Hebrew. Lesson 20 deals with the possessive suffixes of nouns, which is quite a lot to learn. There are different suffixes for singular and plural and often the vocalization of the suffixed noun changes. As there are two types of suffixes, either beginning with a vowel or a consonant, the same noun can be vocalized differently according to the suffix it takes. The altered vocalization is often alike to that of the status constructus, but not always. So, Hebrew grammar is exotic and fun, but also difficult. The reading exercise offered a short excerpt of the story of the Fall of Man in the Garden of Eden, which was quite interesting and not too difficult.

[galaxyrocker]

Let me know how Johnson's book is! It's been on my list for a while now, and I know the author personally so it'd be nice to pick it up if it's good quality (which I'm sure it will be, knowing him).