Josquin's Classical Log - Graeca non leguntur

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Josquin
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Josquin's Classical Log - Graeca non leguntur

Postby Josquin » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:22 pm

Céad míle fáilte!

Welcome to my new log in exile! Given that I have decreased my number of languages in the course of the year, I decided to change the title from the dignified Language Symphony to a somewhat more light-hearted Irish Ceol agus Ól ("music and drink"). For what could be better in the heat of summer than some hearty ceol tradisiúnta ("traditional music") accompanied by a refreshing pionta Guinness ("pint of Guinness")?

So, while I'm officially still doing Russian, Japanese, and Portuguese for the TAC, my focus has been on Irish for some time now. For those who don't know me, I'll summarize my experience with Irish briefly. I have always been interested in Celtic cultures, music, and languages and originally started my Gaelic journey with the Scottish variety. I dabbled a little bit in Scottish Gaelic during the summer of 2010 and started studying it seriously in the autumn of 2012. This went on till May 2013 when I made a trip to Ireland. I immediately fell in love with the country, its people, and the traditional culture and decided to start studying Irish. As Scottish Gaelic and Irish are very closely related, that meant I had to stop studying Gaelic in order to avoid interference.

During the last two years, I have been working with several resources, such as Colloquial Irish, Living Language Complete Irish, Teach Yourself Irish, Learning Irish, A Handbook of Irish, and last but not least Irisch für Anfänger. My passive comprehension has got quite good, but my active skills still lack behind. I'd say I'm a low B1 in comprehension and somewhere around A2 in producing Irish.

What I'll do is this: I'll continue working through Irisch für Anfänger, then I'll continue with A Handbook of Irish and Learning Irish. My language learning carreer has led me from being an obsessed maniac to a much more relaxed attitude, so don't expect too many updates from me. However, I might be musing about languages, music, culture, and life in general in this thread, so please bear with me.

My old log on HTLAL can be found here.

Go n-éirí an bóthar linn!
Last edited by Josquin on Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:25 pm, edited 15 times in total.
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Oró, sé do bheatha abhaile! Anois ar theacht an tsamhraidh.

galaxyrocker
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Re: Josquin's Ceol agus Ól

Postby galaxyrocker » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:12 pm

I believe ól isn't the word you're looking for. It's the verb, 'drink'. The word for a 'drink' like 'give me a drink' would be deoch.
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tangleweeds
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Re: Josquin's Ceol agus Ól

Postby tangleweeds » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:19 pm

Great log name, and I'm happy that you've been enjoying Irish, because I have too. Ceol tradisiúnta freisin (though my roommate hates diddly diddly music).

I was following your log on the main site, but I don't recall "A Handbook of Irish", and google didn't help. Remind me, was that another of your resources in German?
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Starting all over, concentrating on Irish and Japanese

Gaedheal92
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Re: Josquin's Ceol agus Ól

Postby Gaedheal92 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:37 pm

Hi, Josquin!

It's actually liammcg here, trying out a new username! ;) Looking forward to continuing following your log, and as always if you have any questions about Irish don't hesitate to ask!

@ galaxyrocker, while deoch is used for a beverage, ól is often used to refer to alcoholic drink in general. Much more common than alcól;)

http://www.joeheaney.org/default.asp?contentID=999

Just one last thing, the spelling rule caol le caol 7 leathan le leathan dictates that the spelling is traidisiúnta.
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Re: Josquin's Ceol agus Ól

Postby galaxyrocker » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:57 pm

Gaedheal,

I've learned something new. I've always heard deoch used for specifically alcoholic beverages (never alcól as you mentioned!)
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Josquin
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Re: Josquin's Ceol agus Ól

Postby Josquin » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:25 pm

@galaxyrocker: "Ceol agus ól" is a fixed expression as far as I understand it. It's sometimes even extended to "ceol, ól agus craic". I must admit my translation was kind of sloppy though. A better literal translation for "ól" would probably be "drinking" as it's a verbal noun here.

@tangleweeds: I mentioned the Handbook of Irish in my log some time ago, before I started working with Irisch für Anfänger. It was written by a German professor of Irish, but it's in English. The full bibliographical information is as follows:

Bammesberger, Alfred: A Handbook of Irish, Heidelberg 1982.

It consists of three volumes, a textbook, a grammar, and a reader of 20th century Irish literature. While I wouldn't recommend it for learning Irish from scratch, it might be a good complement to other methods. It teaches Irish like a dead language, so it's somewhat similar to Learning Irish, but it's much more concise and straightforward. The most interesting part of it is the annotated reader though, which, unfortunately, is still way over my head.

@Gaedhael92: Good to see you here, Liam! Thanks for clearing that up and for the lovely song! I only knew it in an English translation, so it's great to hear the Irish version. Concerning orthography: If I don't mess up the fadas or silent consonants, I most certainly mess up caol le caol agus leathan le leathan... :roll:
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Gaedheal92
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Re: Josquin's Ceol agus Ól

Postby Gaedheal92 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:34 pm

Here's how I understand it:

Ól is used for what we call "the drink' in Hiberno-English. It's an abstract noun, generally used with the article an> an t-ól. Thinking of it as the practice of drinking. The title ceol agus ól is a frequently used expression. The Playing of Music and Drinking.

You wouldn't say "tá ól agam" if you had a pint glass in your hand, you'd say 'tá pionta agam" or "tá deoch agam".

Do you want a drink? > An bhfuil deoch uait?
I want a drink > Táim ag iarraidh dí (genitive of deoch).
Damn the drink ! > Damnú ar an ól!
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Re: Josquin's Ceol agus Ól

Postby galaxyrocker » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:57 pm

Yeah. I was forgetting the Verbal Noun can also double as a real noun, though I have seen deoch used in similar ways, though perhaps that's Béarlachas (or poor translation in general).
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Re: Josquin's Ceol agus Ól

Postby galaxyrocker » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:33 am

Josquin,

I saw on the real HTLAL that you had come across a 1902 version of the Christian Brother's grammar. Is this an electronic copy, or is it a paper one? If it's electronic, do you know where I could get a copy? It seems very interesting, if a bit dated.

Also, I can send you a copy of the modern CB grammar, though it's written solely in Irish.
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sctroyenne
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Re: Josquin's Ceol agus Ól

Postby sctroyenne » Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:13 am

When I saw the title I immediately thought of this: Ceol agus Ól 2 - Foil Arms and Hog.
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