Gary's TACtivation

[tastyonions]

Biutiful was on Netflix as of some months ago. There are a few Chinese and Catalan parts, but mostly it is in Spanish. Very good movie, though not one to watch if you are in the mood for light viewing.

[Serpent]

Solo allora ho notato che hai letto Bar sport e Lezioni semiserie Sono d'accordo, l'inizio di Bar sport era buono ma poi... Ho anche altri libri di Benni e spero che mi piacciano più
Severgnini è uno dei miei preferiti scrittori moderni Sinceramente per me la cosa migliore è che lo posso leggere in qualsiasi situazione. L'ho letto quando sono andata a un festival solo per non "perdere" il denaro, siccome il concerto della banda che avevo voluto vedere era stato cancellato L'ho anche letto la settimana scorsa quando mi madre voleva che venga con lei a un concerto di bellydance Severgnini scrive in un modo affascinante, sopratutto dei suoi viaggi

[garyb]

Biutiful was on Netflix as of some months ago. There are a few Chinese and Catalan parts, but mostly it is in Spanish. Very good movie, though not one to watch if you are in the mood for light viewing.

Thanks for the recommendation, I've heard good things about that film. I couldn't find it on Netflix when I looked last night, maybe it's not available in the UK. I did find a couple of other Spanish things though. Unfortunately there isn't a "Spanish films" subcategory like there is for French and Italian, so they're slightly harder to find.

Solo allora ho notato che hai letto Bar sport e Lezioni semiserie Sono d'accordo, l'inizio di Bar sport era buono ma poi... Ho anche altri libri di Benni e spero che mi piacciano più
Severgnini è uno dei miei preferiti scrittori moderni Sinceramente per me la cosa migliore è che lo posso leggere in qualsiasi situazione. L'ho letto quando sono andata a un festival solo per non "perdere" il denaro, siccome il concerto della banda che avevo voluto vedere era stato cancellato L'ho anche letto la settimana scorsa quando mi madre voleva che venga con lei a un concerto di bellydance Severgnini scrive in un modo affascinante, sopratutto dei suoi viaggi

Non ho ancora letto degli altri libri di Benni ma prima o poi leggerò "La Compagnia dei Celestini". Parla di calcio, ti potrebbe interessare

Di Severgnini ho anche letto "La testa degli Italiani": il mio primo libro italiano! Dovrò rileggerlo ché adesso sarà più facile. Anche a me piace molto il suo stile e ho voglia di leggere altri suoi libri.

[garyb]

2 days until Barcelona. Done a bit more DuoLingo which is quite useful but the order is a little strange, why does it cover words for animals and colours and clothing before basics like the perfect tense and conjunctions? I suppose it's a chicken and egg question though, you need vocabulary to put into structure but you need structure to put vocabulary into. Courses like Michel Thomas and Pimsleur do seem to find a better balance here. Anyway I'll end up learning both anyway, and I always insist that there are several paths; DuoLingo's one just seems a little arbitrary, I suppose it focuses more on the end result than on being functional in the mean time. And animals are worth knowing, at least the ones I might end up eating.

I downloaded the FSI Basic course. It looks like everything I could want from a language course: a focus on pronunciation at the start, then lots of drills designed to help with activating grammar forms and handling conversations. Should be a great complement to native materials and speaking practice. It's again a longer-term plan though, doesn't seem like I'd get much out of doing bits and pieces of it now. At this point I'd rather just go out and try to converse, which I'll hopefully do tonight. For short-term improvement it seems to be more efficient to attempt to use the language, which quickly reveals your own weak points, than use a course that won't necessarily cover your most immediate needs first.

Once I'm back from Spain I think I'll go back to concentrating on Italian. I've had a couple of Italian conversations in the last few days and it's clear both that my speaking needs more work and that the work I have been doing recently is giving results so I should keep doing it. The proper dive into Spanish, complete with FSI, can wait until my Italian is a bit better and my life is a bit quieter. Although maybe I'll fall in love with Spain and be tempted to start sooner...

[garyb]

So I didn't get to practice Spanish last night after all. The Spanish meetup was in a further away bar than usual, I was tired and not really in the mood for one of these meetups where I don't know anybody, and some friends were at the more nearby Couchsurfing meeting so I just went to that. I got some Italian practice but there were very few Spanish-speakers. Oh well. Spanish opportunities are seeming a bit like taxis, they're everywhere except for when you're looking for them.

I've done a bit more DuoLingo and some self-talk, and will do some writing today. But at this point it's not going to make much difference. I'm realising that my productive level in Spanish is simply rather low, and even if I had had more time and opportunities in these last couple of weeks I wouldn't be much further from the bottom of the mountain. Learning to speak is a long-term project, even with a couple of related languages under your belt. Still, I've taken some of the rust off, refreshed my existing knowledge, and picked up a few new words. So in Spain I'm just going to have to enjoy my decent listening comprehension and make the most of what I do know for speaking, which may not be much but it's far better than nothing.

EDIT: Discovered a random verb form tester to practise these verb conjugations a little. Probably not the most useful tool as I'd rather learn with context, but for a bit of extra practice, why not!
EDIT 2: Much better verb quizzes

[garyb]

I came back from Barcelona yesterday. I enjoyed it, lots of nice places to eat and drink and hang out, and quite a laid-back atmosphere. A bit about my trip from the language point of view:

Spanish: After a day or two of soaking up the language I felt that I was getting by pretty well. I was mostly hanging around with other foreigners: my friend, friends of friends, hostel guests and staff; my Spanish isn't great but it was better than anyone else's in the group so I ended up the one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind and the spokesperson. That was good as it forced me to leave my comfort zone and to try to use the language with people. I could usually get my point across and be understood, which is the most I can hope for at my current level. Plenty mistakes, plenty times when I wasn't sure of the most "natural" way to phrase something, but that'll all improve with more input and more speaking practice. I had one quite long conversation with a woman from Madrid, but a conversation with a woman from Madrid doesn't require much speaking!

I'm glad I did that bit of preparation, I definitely saw it pay off. In particular, spending a couple of hours with the verb quizzes from the last post turned out to be an extremely good investment, especially for the weak points I mentioned like the vosotros forms (which are strange but actually very regular) and the pretérito indefinido. Verb drills are underrated, and they're the one thing I wish I had done earlier and done more in Italian. You can eventually master them just through lots of input and conversation, but that's the long way, why not take shortcuts?

I flew there with Vueling, who have an in-flight magazine with every article in Spanish and English. A nice bilingual text to get me warmed up!

English: Overall the English level in Barcelona seemed very high, even more than I had expected, at least amongst workers in restaurants, bars, and shops. However, some were very keen and confident while others only spoke it if they had to and were happier to use Spanish. One guy in a coffee shop was struggling a bit and was happy when I changed to Spanish, and there was one waiter who happily spoke with us in Spanish and complimented my ability even though he was serving other tables in English. That was cool, especially since friendly conversation with service staff is unusual in mainland Europe.

Plenty people did switch to English, especially if they had heard me speaking it with my friend, but it just seemed like a pragmatic choice because their English was good and my Spanish was not good. I didn't have any impression at all of the kind of negative attitudes towards foreigners/learners that I often experience with French and Italians. I felt much more confident and less hesitant about using the language than I did on my early trips to France and Italy, even though my level is lower, but I reckon that's due to various different mental factors beyond just natives' attitudes: me generally having more confidence and less shame and perfectionism than I used to; Spanish's simpler pronunciation giving me less to think and worry about; the fact that I've invested relatively little time into the language so I don't feel pressure to show something for it. Whatever the reasons, it's certainly a language that feels welcoming and easy to dive into, even if technically it's on the same sort of difficulty level as the others.

Barcelona seemed like a place where you can get by fine in English if you want. I met an Englishman in a bar who had been living there for a decade and learnt almost no Spanish (sounds like an anecdote from the beginning of a language blog article) and some of the hostel staff and friends of friends had been there for a good few months and hadn't made any serious attempts with the language. But at the same time, if you're keen to speak Spanish then nothing is stopping you.

Catalan: I saw lots of it but didn't hear much, apart from in recorded announcements on buses and the metro. Almost all of the everyday conversations I heard were in Spanish (or Italian in the touristy areas!), but there was one exception: a punk concert in a youth centre that we went to one evening. The conversations were half and half, the people at the ticket desk and the bar spoke to us in Catalan (I sort of understood but replied in Spanish), and one of the bands spoke it. Also I ended up singing on stage, but that's another story.

Good trip, and it's made me keen to see more of Spain and learn more Spanish. Similar culture to what I like about France and Italy, but cheaper and friendlier. And this is just from Barcelona, which people tell me is less friendly, less cheap, and less typically Spanish than other parts of the country. So the rest must be pretty awesome!

Anyway, no changes to my current plan: keep going with Italian (I have tentative plans to visit the South next year), keep Spanish as a secondary language for now but dive in properly sooner or later. FSI's drills are waiting for me whenever I want.

[arthaey]

my Spanish isn't great but it was better than anyone else's in the group so I ended up the one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind and the spokesperson.

Hehe, I'm sure that's an experience many of us here on the forum can relate to.

One time, even my crappy A1-German was the best our group had in Zurich & Munich. I managed directions and even a restaurant reservation, though!

I met an Englishman in a bar who had been living there for a decade and learnt almost no Spanish

That mindset is utterly foreign to me. Why don't language-Muggles see how intrinsically fun language-learning is? Why wouldn't you want to??

Do others have personal anecdotes of this happening with travelers whose native language is something other than English? Or is this a function of the fact that one can get by in some many locations with just English?

Catalan: I saw lots of it but didn't hear much, apart from in recorded announcements on buses and the metro. Almost all of the everyday conversations I heard were in Spanish

That's what I remember of Barcelona as well: lots of bilingual signs, not much spoke Catalan floating around the environments I was frequenting. Although I bet the situation is different outside of the city...

Also I ended up singing on stage, but that's another story.

Wait, what?? You can't just leave it there! Tell us more.

[Elenia]

Sounds like a great trip, glad to hear it! You almost make me want to pick up Spanish! A question about the little Catalan you did hear: how easy was it for you to understand? The only time I've ever heard Catalan was when talking to someone on the train from the airport, but that was Frenchified Catalan, which is probably why I didn't have much difficulty with it. Did you find you got an good boost from your French?

Also, I agree with arthaey: you can't just leave us hanging about your impromptu (I'm guessing!) gig!

[garyb]

Hehe, I'm sure that's an experience many of us here on the forum can relate to.

One time, even my crappy A1-German was the best our group had in Zurich & Munich. I managed directions and even a restaurant reservation, though!

Yep, I have fond memories of going to a music festival in France a month or two after I picked up the language again. My French was horrible but better than anyone else's in the group. We got chatting to a group of French people, some of whom didn't know much English, so I ended up trying to interpret and I got by well even if very inelegantly. There was a pretty girl there and I was the only one able to communicate with her, which was certainly an ego boost! It's a shame that things like that somehow happened less and less the more my French improved.

That mindset is utterly foreign to me. Why don't language-Muggles see how intrinsically fun language-learning is? Why wouldn't you want to??

Do others have personal anecdotes of this happening with travelers whose native language is something other than English? Or is this a function of the fact that one can get by in some many locations with just English?

In this case it just seems like he didn't need to learn it and didn't want to learn it. Fair enough but I do wonder why he moved to Barcelona if he wasn't interested in the language and culture; it was quite a brief conversation and we didn't get to his reasons for being there. Maybe just the typical Brit who moves to Spain for the weather and the more relaxed lifestyle.

The woman from Madrid had travelled extensively, particularly in India which she loved, but had never learned other languages apart from a little French. I found it surprising that she hadn't at least studied English since it's so useful for travel and it's an official language in India. So I suppose that's one example. I've actually met several Spaniards who've been living in the UK for a decade or more and know barely enough English to get by. Sure, they can't get by with none of the language like native English speakers often can, but they've just done the bare minimum. So I'd say it's not just English speakers.

Sounds like a great trip, glad to hear it! You almost make me want to pick up Spanish! A question about the little Catalan you did hear: how easy was it for you to understand? The only time I've ever heard Catalan was when talking to someone on the train from the airport, but that was Frenchified Catalan, which is probably why I didn't have much difficulty with it. Did you find you got an good boost from your French?

Also, I agree with arthaey: you can't just leave us hanging about your impromptu (I'm guessing!) gig!

Thanks, it was a great trip, but too short as always. Well I wouldn't want to tempt anyone with a new language...

I found Catalan to be like a strange mixture of Spanish, French, Portuguese and Italian. I could mostly decipher it and I believe my French did help, but it took a bit of time, which was fine for reading but not so much for listening. When the staff at the gig were speaking to me I just picked out enough key words and contextual clues to understand the gist. Also I forgot to mention in my post that we went to a cocktail bar where the menu was Catalan-only, and I understood that fine, no unpleasant surprises when I tasted my drink! The names of fruits and spirits etc. again seemed a mixture of those from other languages.

My brother went to Barcelona a few years ago and he said that he found Catalan much easier to understand than Spanish, thanks to his high-school French. That's probably more telling than my experience which was also affected by my other languages.

I wonder how much Catalan varies regionally. I heard people ordering "birra" (like Italian) but I looked in a dictionary and the standard word seemed to be "cervesa" (like Spanish). I also wonder if the gig attracted a lot of people from outside the city, hence more Catalan being spoken.

Okay, the gig After the bands played there was a pop-punk karaoke session, but with a live band rather than backing tracks, so my friend and I signed up to sing "All the small things". It was silly but fun, and the crowd of around a hundred people was bigger than most of the ones I've played to at my proper gigs!

[Spoonary]

Okay, the gig After the bands played there was a pop-punk karaoke session, but with a live band rather than backing tracks, so my friend and I signed up to sing "All the small things". It was silly but fun, and the crowd of around a hundred people was bigger than most of the ones I've played to at my proper gigs!

It sounds like you had a great time! I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed your trip to Spain and it has been interesting to read all your observations. I haven't commented until now because I really don't have anything to add. Anything I did say would just be reiterating what you/arthaey/Elenia have already said.

I did, however, want to give you another healthy shove towards working on Spanish sooner rather than later