Tutescrew's Spanish/French/Italian/German Log

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klvik
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Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3149
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Re: Tutescrew's Spanish/French/Italian/German Log

Postby klvik » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:12 pm

Tutescrew wrote:
Here is an anecdote about listening to Pimsleur while driving. Maybe this would be better on one of the other boards, but anyways...I find that when new words and phrases are introduced, my mind is visualizing how they might be spelled. When I am parked, I will Google Translate the word or phrase to see how it is actually spelled. For instance, in a recent unit, the phrase "He visto a Jose " threw me off because of the silent H. But when I actually see the text, it makes it much easier for me to recall it later. Not an earth-shattering revelation, but I think that I will enjoy ASSIMIL just because it is not entirely audio.



When I first started having conversation in Spanish via Skype, if I was trying to recall a word I had to look up at the ceiling and visualize the word, as if the word was typed on the ceiling. :lol: My need to visualize the written word eventually faded but I don't remember how long it took. I still find that I learn new words much more easily through reading than listening. In order to pick up new words while listening I have to focus my attention and minimize background noise. Because of this, if I am driving I try to re-listen to things I have heard before. Repetition is great for the learning process and listening to familiar things means that it doesn't matter too much if I miss things due to road noise (I drive a older car and live in an area with horrible roads so it can get pretty noisy in my car) or to my split attention.
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January 5, 2020
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Cavesa
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Re: Tutescrew's Spanish/French/Italian/German Log

Postby Cavesa » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:03 pm

I wholeheartedly agree with Iguanamnon. Not having the visual clue with Pimsleur was really unsettling for me, as I am used to learning both the visual and the auditory part at once and prefer it this way. I don't doubt Pimsleur has many qualities why people are choosing it. However, another thing I hated about it was the content obviously for tourists. I am a serious learner with long term plans for the language, so I want to learn systematically, not just to memorise phrases. When I need that, I'll get a much cheaper resource than Pimsleur.

He is also right:
iguanamon wrote:One of the common problems many monolingual beginners have in learning their first second language as an adult is "irrational exuberance" at the beginning followed by allowing the roadblocks that will inevitably come up along the way to stop them. Roadblocks will happen, if you deal with them as they happen instead of either skipping over them or, worse, giving up, you'll be fine. Giving up is the one sure way not to learn a language.

So true. You are not expected to learn everything 100% before moving on to the next chapter. I like to imagine it like a lasagna. You get the first layer, than do other stuff that works like the tomato-meat stuff, than you add another layer (for example in the next level coursebook), and so on, several times.

Plus, be careful to not spread yourself too thin, it is so easy to fall into this trap. I am all for using various resources, but it is not good to do them all at once, get annoyed by getting stuck at unit 3 in all of them, and giving up. A few options you could try, so that you can find your own schema:
1.One main resource (in your case probably Assimil) and supplemental resources on top of that. But the main resource is the priority to progress in. A good example would be Assimil+grammar book to further practice stuff you've just learnt+a beginner podcast for more listening.
2.Two or at most three main resources, but very few or no supplements. In such a case, I recommend choosing two or three types of tools that complement each other, so that you don't have to reach out and procrastinate with lots of 1st units elsewhere. For example Assimil+Destinos+Gramatica de Uso del Espanol could work like this, but it is just one example among many!
2a something like Monday+Thursday tool 1, Tuesday+Friday tool 2, Wednesday+Saturday tool 3
2b a week with tool 1, a week with tool 2, a week with tool 3, rotate.
2c Every day tool 1, once a week tool 2

The options are endless. The goal is to create a plan that is sustainable in the long run, that will give you enough time to digest the new stuff but won't let you get stuck for too long.
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Tutescrew
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Re: Tutescrew's Spanish/French/Italian/German Log

Postby Tutescrew » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:43 am

Well, I did receive Assimil Spanish as a gift, and I am going to start Lesson 1 tonight. Some older posts in here, and on HTLAL, state that Assimil is vague about the method. This 2014 version describes the Passive Wave in 5 steps:

1) Listen to the recording of the lesson.
2) Read the Lesson, using phonetic transcription if necessary, check English to help understanding.
3) Listen again, repeating aloud.
4) Read the notes.
5) Do the exercises.

Any suggestions on improving this?

Tutescrew
0 x
Tutescrew's French Progress
: 30 / 30 Pimsleur French I
: 16 / 30 Pimsleur French II
: 3 / 10 FSI French Phonology

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Tutescrew
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Re: Tutescrew's Spanish/French/Italian/German Log

Postby Tutescrew » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:49 pm

This week I am back on track after an ear infection and two nasty colds right after the holidays, followed by a period of procrastination. I started with a complete review of Pimsleur Spanish I. To my surprise, I really did not forget much in the past 5-6 weeks, and I am already on Unit 9. I am violating the "one unit per day" recommendation, obviously. However, I would say that I am only averaging one "slip" per unit so far. I expect that to change when I get to the past tense material in the later units :D Anyways, if there is anybody out there in a similar situation and needs encouragement, you might be surprised at how good your recall is.

Since I was only on Lesson 3 of Assimil when I paused, I'll probably start that over, also. I was having a bit of trouble concentrating during the lessons, due to the new style of course and the difference in the environment (i.e., my car vs a room at home in the basement with a messy desk). The early lessons seem easy enough, and I am sure that it is more a matter of "getting into a groove".

I have no immediate plans to continue the Language Transfer course, at least until I am caught up with the Pimsleur. My original plan was to play a lesson of that on days when I have time on my commute *and* I have already played a Pimsleur unit....I think that is still a good idea.
0 x
Tutescrew's French Progress
: 30 / 30 Pimsleur French I
: 16 / 30 Pimsleur French II
: 3 / 10 FSI French Phonology

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Tutescrew
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Re: Tutescrew's Spanish/French/Italian/German Log

Postby Tutescrew » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:50 pm

I have finally started the second Pimsleur Spanish course, after a review of the first course. I am doing much better with the normal-speed conversations at the beginning of each unit, probably about 70-80% comprehension on the first pass.

I mentioned in one of my earlier posts above that I was planning to use Language Transfer Complete Spanish when I had extra time driving around. I think that it would be better for me to do this more in parallel with the Pimsleur course, since it seems that I always learn something that had been bothering me. For instance, the use of "to" with "verbs of motion". That is almost obvious with a little thought, but when you are concentrating on what to recite back in a Pimsleur unit, I was missing the "big picture".

I need to get back to the Assimil course soon. I have a document that I made with many useful posts from the forum about Assimil and how to use it. One particular thing that I recall reading was that the lessons get harder as one progresses (again, obvious).....but the first few lessons seemed so very easy. I know that is by design, "with ease".

One tangential task that I have been performing over the past few weeks is to record my old Linguaphone and Berlitz courses to MP3 files. The Linguaphone course (50 lessons from the 1950s/60s) seems enticing, based upon a quick reading of the Spanish as I was monitoring the audio.

Tutescrew
2 x
Tutescrew's French Progress
: 30 / 30 Pimsleur French I
: 16 / 30 Pimsleur French II
: 3 / 10 FSI French Phonology

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Tutescrew
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Re: Tutescrew's Spanish/French/Italian/German Log

Postby Tutescrew » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:43 pm

Just an update and a question.

So I am still doing the Pimsleur Spanish on my commute, and somewhat less often I listen to a track of Language Transfer's Complete Spanish. I am progressing, but only at the rate of about 2-3 Pimsleur units/week. I know that the official advice is to move on after understanding and re-stating 80% of the material, and I generally do that. My car's MP3 player does not have a "go back 10 seconds" button or the like, so I have to let the whole unit play through unless I pause (not always a safe thing to do while driving). Often on the first pass, I will completely miss most of a line. So, this is why it takes 2-3 passes through.

I have read here that listening to the Assimil dialogues away from the book might be beneficial? Since my commute time is more predictable than my "spare" time at home, I am wondering if a review of the past 2 or 3 Assimil lessons might be time better spent in the car, at least on one of my commutes per day?

Tutescrew
1 x
Tutescrew's French Progress
: 30 / 30 Pimsleur French I
: 16 / 30 Pimsleur French II
: 3 / 10 FSI French Phonology

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Adrianslont
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Re: Tutescrew's Spanish/French/Italian/German Log

Postby Adrianslont » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:30 pm

IMHO Assimil is excellent material for review during a car commute - better than something like learning a new pimsleur lesson.

And hi, I just discovered you and your log through your ereader question.

I bought a kindle paper white just a few months ago and love it. Excellent for intensive and extensive reading. I’m an intermediate rather than beginner, though. I found ANY reading frustrating at beginner level.

Recently I’ve been playing with making my own “books” for the kindle in .mobi format from Wikipedia and tv transcripts using Calibre. It’s a bit time consuming but I end up with content I really like. Pretty easy though to make .mobi from HTML or .docx.

I have not tried reading PDFs on kindle. You can also convert from PDF to .mobi but I believe it is not always satisfactory and any fancy formatting I can imagine would not work well.

I should perhaps add that I am learning French and Indonesian.
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Tutescrew
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Re: Tutescrew's Spanish/French/Italian/German Log

Postby Tutescrew » Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:21 pm

I replied to another post earlier today about the difficulties and challenges of learning a language, even though I am only one step above a complete beginner. My suggestion was that not establishing good life habits can derail a language study program. In addition to that, I think that somehow making language learning an *obligation* is almost mandatory. I have other obligations, and language learning never seems to make the list. I believe that this has to change for me if I want to get anywhere with languages. Consequently, I am going to make semi-regular posts here as an obligation. Baby steps, I know.

I've been on hiatus, obviously. I managed to complete the Duolingo Tree for Esperanto during the pandemic, even though in the long term I am not as interested in that language. That experience at least told me that I can spend a measurable amount of time studying a language. Now, I am rebooting my Spanish studies at a very basic level to try and keep some momentum going. I will be using Pimsleur and Michel Thomas Total Spanish *or* Learn Spanish with Paul Noble (thanks interlibrary loans!). I believe I wrote about Pimsleur above, it works great for me on my commute. I will listen to a lesson or two of Michel Thomas and the Paul Noble courses to determine which of the two I prefer (maybe even Language Transfer, with which I am familiar with). I reckon this adds up to about 90-120 minutes on most days. Afterwards, my plan is to continue with Assimil New Spanish with Ease.

Tutescrew
3 x
Tutescrew's French Progress
: 30 / 30 Pimsleur French I
: 16 / 30 Pimsleur French II
: 3 / 10 FSI French Phonology

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Tutescrew
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Re: Tutescrew's Spanish/French/Italian/German Log

Postby Tutescrew » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:18 pm

This morning I listened to the first three tracks of both the Michel Thomas and Paul Noble beginning Spanish courses. I have read much of what has been written here concerning MT, and what little there is here concerning PN. The studio-like quality of PN seems better than MT, in the sense that all three speakers seem to speak more clearly....this is probably subjective. Also, I like how PN uses both Peninsula Spanish and Latin American Spanish. So, I will start with the PN course. I can always switch :D
1 x
Tutescrew's French Progress
: 30 / 30 Pimsleur French I
: 16 / 30 Pimsleur French II
: 3 / 10 FSI French Phonology

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Tutescrew
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Re: Tutescrew's Spanish/French/Italian/German Log

Postby Tutescrew » Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:33 pm

Well, I managed to cover 6 units of Pimsleur this past week, along with about 1 1/2 CDs of the Paul Noble course. I have done the early Pimsleur units before, so they are familiar. Paul Noble seems worthwhile, but I find myself visualizing how some of the words might be spelled. Of course I can look them up, which is what I did. For example, "quisiera" in PN, as opposed to "quiero" in Pimsleur. Since I am only averaging about 45-50 minutes of study per day so far, I am going to try adding the Hugo course as a "time based" task of about 30 minutes. Based upon what I have read on the forum, and watching Prof. Arguelles's video, I think it would help with my "visualization issue". I am going try using WorkAudioBook for the audio parts, which seems ideal for listening to individual sentences.

Tutescrew
5 x
Tutescrew's French Progress
: 30 / 30 Pimsleur French I
: 16 / 30 Pimsleur French II
: 3 / 10 FSI French Phonology


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