James29's Spanish and French Log

[James29]

It has been another great week in Spanish for me! I am so happy I added Spanish to my life. It was a ton of work and took some serious commitment back then, but it was worth it. It is just now a great part of my life.

This week I pretty much just did more of the same. I watched telenovelas on the treadmill. I finished the short series "El Chapo." It held my interest, but I would not recommend it to someone unless they had a particular interest in biographical series about drug runners. There was not really any plot. It was just a reenactment of El Chapo's life and I would bet it was not too realistic. I watched it because I liked the standard length of the episodes (good for running on a treadmill) and it has the audio description function. For learning Spanish it was fine. I found it funny that there were many of the same characters from the last telenovela I watched, La Nina, which was a Colombian show. It was funny to see the actors in such totally different roles. It also made me realize I have absolutely no clue if the actors are Colombian or Mexican (or from somewhere else).

I also started "Las Chicas del Cable." I was really excited to start this show. What could be better than a show about four attractive Espanolas? Well, unfortunately, I really could not get into it at all. I shut it off about half way through the first episode. I will probably give it another try later. I note that the Spanish was somewhat difficult for me. I usually find Spain Spanish one of the easiest to understand, but the actors in that show were speaking really fast and I suspect they were using a decent amount of slang.

I had a nice long talk with a relatively new exchange partner. I don't do this too much anymore, but I had some free time this week. It was a great talk. She has experience with grading language tests and after speaking for a very long time she told me she thought I was "probably" a C2 in conversational Spanish. She said she thought I was clearly better than a C1 and she noticed no mistakes in my Spanish. Her point was that she did not know if I would actually pass a C2 test but that was my functional level.

I have not thought about my level for a long time so this got me thinking. I am not sure I really agree with her, but it did make me realize that my Spanish is still improving. It also made me realize that people I am speaking with do not "see" all the mistakes I make. This is because I make them in my head and they simply do not come out of my mouth. I am now able to sense a problem with the way I am saying something (or understanding something) and I am able to compensate and adjust my speaking to accommodate my deficiencies. The bottom line with my Spanish is that I am perfectly happy where I am. All this novela watching has definitely helped with my conversations as it has dramatically improved my understanding and my "feel" for the language. I would like to continue to improve my conversational ability.

I went to my Spanish meetup group, as usual, and had a good time. I cannot think of any other Spanish I did this week.

I am once again thinking about what series to start on Netflix. I think I'll probably start in on Sobreviviendo a Escobar this coming week. I know I said that last week, but I am on my own program and can do whatever I want. We'll see what happens.

In regards to French, I really just do French whenever I feel like it. I have gotten into the great habit of bringing my Assimil book with me wherever I go. It has become this year's "beach book." I basically just read a lesson whenever I feel like it and whenever I have the time. This morning I read lesson 76.

I really like this Assimil. I would have to say it is a better book than the Spanish one I did (I did not do the most current Spanish one - I did one that was published in 1986 or something like that). The lessons in the French book are entertaining and at the perfect level for me. I can read them and mostly understand them but I definitely learn when I read the lessons. I basically just read the lesson one time through and make sure I understand each word and I read the notes. Then I read through the lesson again and then read the first exercises.

I think Assimil will be great for what I want to do in French. I'd like to just get to a point where I can read fairly well. Then read for a while before working on speaking.

I tried watching Marseille on Netflix with the French audio and French closed captions. I would have been totally lost had I not already watched the show with English audio. I'm not sure how much I got out of watching it in French. I don't think I am ready for that yet.

So, for now I am going to continue with my languages as I am doing. I'll just chug along with telenovelas in Spanish and I'll probably just slowly work through Assimil when I can for French.

[BOLIO]

James, as always, I feel like I am two years behind you in my Spanish journey at it motivates me to follow your progress. Thanks for taking the time to post.

As an aside, I started watching Marseille with French audio and Spanish CC. I know it probably helps nothing but at least I get to read he Spanish. I have everything I need to start Russian but French and Portuguese are moving to the front of my mind. I don't know if the driving force is because their steps are not as steep as Russian. However, I can really see myself functioning in either or both of those languages in a few years.


Thanks again,

BOLIO

[the1whoknocks]

I finished the short series "El Chapo." It held my interest, but I would not recommend it to someone unless they had a particular interest in biographical series about drug runners. There was not really any plot. It was just a reenactment of El Chapo's life and I would bet it was not too realistic.

My thought’s exactly – particularly what you said regarding the plot. I wondered if I was missing something with the plot … the dialog and actual action was “ok,” but the whole thing just seemed like a series of things happening. I never saw that thread meant to tie everything together.

On another note, I’ve found your progress over these past 7-8 years inspiring. Your relatively relaxed method, and consistency, are particularly motivating; an approach I’ve been trying to learn from. I imagine you’re a pretty busy guy, and never like encroaching on anyone’s time, but would you mind talking a bit about how you’ve approached learning vocabulary?

-1. Rummaging through your log these past few months, it appears that you’ve relied on mostly reading (Kindle pop-up dictionary), listening and time to develop your vocabulary i.e. no flashcards, wordlists or the like. Would you say that’s accurate?

-2. Also, judging from how much you enjoy reading, I’d guess that you have a very ample passive vocabulary. Has your approach translated well for your active vocabulary?

-3. Finally, given your experience with Spanish and what you know now as a language learner, would your approach to acquiring vocabulary change if you were preparing for an exam like the DELE, or had to write more?

Any insight you could share would be helpful, and much appreciated.

[James29]

On another note, I’ve found your progress over these past 7-8 years inspiring. Your relatively relaxed method, and consistency, are particularly motivating; an approach I’ve been trying to learn from. I imagine you’re a pretty busy guy, and never like encroaching on anyone’s time, but would you mind talking a bit about how you’ve approached learning vocabulary?

-1. Rummaging through your log these past few months, it appears that you’ve relied on mostly reading (Kindle pop-up dictionary), listening and time to develop your vocabulary i.e. no flashcards, wordlists or the like. Would you say that’s accurate?

-2. Also, judging from how much you enjoy reading, I’d guess that you have a very ample passive vocabulary. Has your approach translated well for your active vocabulary?

-3. Finally, given your experience with Spanish and what you know now as a language learner, would your approach to acquiring vocabulary change if you were preparing for an exam like the DELE, or had to write more?

Any insight you could share would be helpful, and much appreciated.

Thanks for the note. Spanish is something that has kept me sane over the past seven or so years. I need it to "get away" from stressful things sometimes. I feel I was successful because I genuinely liked learning the language. It was fun. I did what I wanted to do and it worked.

In terms of vocabulary, I never really studied vocabulary. I tried anki for about three days and just cannot do that sort of thing. It just feels like studying too much. I acquired most of my vocabulary simply by reading books.

I do many things in very unorthodox ways. One thing I do when accomplishing things (business success, investing, learning Spanish, marathon training, etc) is try to do things in a way where I look at the real goal and try to take advantage of time. I look at things in the long term and really focus on the end result goal. I've found that by doing this I make better decisions and seem to have more success than if I take it step by step.

With Spanish I really tried focusing on learning the structure of the language first. Then, once I felt very confident with the structure and foundational vocabulary, I simply added a ton of reading and TV. It seems to have worked very well. And it was fun!

I think there is so much more to learning a language than "knowing" a word. There are just so many different levels of knowledge. I feel by learning vocabulary in context I gain a deeper understanding and a better "feel" for the word than if I used anki type methods.

I've never really thought about Spanish for a test. I don't really now how I would tackle preparing for an exam. I would probably look at the test and try to figure out the best test taking strategy and then model my Spanish studying toward the best way to pass the exam.

In terms of languages this week, it was another pretty similar week to the past few. I've been watching Spanish on Netflix while I run on the treadmill. I finished "Las Chicas del Cable." I must say that I was disappointed in the series. I had really high hopes for it. It certainly was not "bad" and, in fact, I'd say it was very well produced and the acting seemed top notch. The story was just not too intriguing for me. And, unfortunately, this was probably the most difficult series I have watched in a couple years. I think my Spain Spanish is probably not as good as I thought it was. Also, there was a ton of very fast dialogue. The show had way too many subplots going and it simply moved too fast. They tried to pack too much into eight episodes.

In some ways it was kind of cool because the very first thing I tried watching in Spanish was El Internado. Both shows had the two same male lead actors. The guys now are all grown up. It was interesting to see the difference.

I also watched a few more episodes of Jessica Jones. I have one more episode left. I am not too into the plot in this show either. It is too supernatural type of a show for me. But, I am in love with the lead character. She is great. She beats the crap out of everyone and she is just a great tough character. At the same time, she is hot and sexy (even though she does not try to be).

I had quite a few random conversations in Spanish this week. I was traveling again this week and was way out in the country. I saw a small "hole in the wall" Mexican take out place and I had to stop for dinner. The place was totally packed with Mexican migrant workers. I was waiting in line and had a chat with some folks. Then, I sat down next to a guy and had a great chat. I've noticed people are often completely perplexed when I speak in Spanish to them. They are just not expecting it at all. It throws me off sometimes because I initially worry that maybe they are from Brazil or something and that's why they don't understand me. It is like something has to click in their brain that they are speaking Spanish with me. Anyway, that was a pretty cool experience.

I also somehow found myself on a construction site this week and heard some guys listening to Latin music. The same thing happened with these guys. I just started speaking Spanish with them and they were obviously confused. We then had a nice chat.

Maybe these people think I am just a nut. Sometimes I am very animated with the way I talk and I even try to "ham up" my Spanish. They probably just think I am a bit crazy and are wondering if they should engage in a conversation with such a person.

I did my regular meetup. I also listened to VOA news on a long drive. I should do that more.

In terms of French, I only read through a couple new Assimil lessons. I'm still learning, but it is a very long process.

That's it for now.

[the1whoknocks]

Thanks for such an insightful response. I really appreciate your time. I hope you won’t mind that I’ve highlighted a few parts that jumped out at me.

Thanks for the note. Spanish is something that has kept me sane over the past seven or so years. I need it to "get away" from stressful things sometimes. I feel I was successful because I genuinely liked learning the language. It was fun. I did what I wanted to do and it worked.

In terms of vocabulary, I never really studied vocabulary. I tried anki for about three days and just cannot do that sort of thing. It just feels like studying too much. I acquired most of my vocabulary simply by reading books.

I do many things in very unorthodox ways. One thing I do when accomplishing things (business success, investing, learning Spanish, marathon training, etc) is try to do things in a way where I look at the real goal and try to take advantage of time. I look at things in the long term and really focus on the end result goal. I've found that by doing this I make better decisions and seem to have more success than if I take it step by step.

With Spanish I really tried focusing on learning the structure of the language first. Then, once I felt very confident with the structure and foundational vocabulary, I simply added a ton of reading and TV. It seems to have worked very well. And it was fun!

I think there is so much more to learning a language than "knowing" a word. There are just so many different levels of knowledge. I feel by learning vocabulary in context I gain a deeper understanding and a better "feel" for the word than if I used anki type methods.

I've never really thought about Spanish for a test. I don't really now how I would tackle preparing for an exam. I would probably look at the test and try to figure out the best test taking strategy and then model my Spanish studying toward the best way to pass the exam.

You’re one forum member who I’ve never seen report using flashcards, wordlists, and similar tools while having reached a C1-ish level. That made me not only wonder if I was missing something, and I wanted to ensure I was understanding how you approached vocabulary aquisition. ... Your experience tells me not only that one can expect to learn a language to a high level without those tools, but that that time, consistent exposure to the language, and enjoyment are key.

Without SRS and the like, I’ve read that it is possible to get far vocabulary-wise, but most accounts I’ve read are from learners at the B2-level. Admittedly, I may only need to rummage through a few more logs to find more examples of learners who have gotten beyond B2 without ‘sophisticated’ methods for building vocabulary. I haven’t been “SRS’ing” for a while now, and there is always that sense that I’m making a mistake - Your experience is putting me at ease a bit, and giving me an idea of what to expect moving forward.

I particularly like what you shared about "accomplishing things." Thanks again for your time.

Side note: It's cool to see you're still with French (not only 'sometimes').

[James29]

Well, I did write a previous reply to your message, the1whoknocks, but somehow I must have screwed it up as it did not make it up onto my log. But, yes, obviously a language can be learned to a higher level without flashcards and actively studying vocabulary. In fact, I'd say I think that is the more common way. Many members of this forum have learned their languages without flashcards. I just hate doing things that feel like "studying."

So, I got off my Sunday log update somehow... too many things to do. I've got a few minutes now to say that not much is new.

I'm watching Sobreviviendo a Escobar on Netflix. It is ok. If it were much more than 40 episodes I'd probably quit. I am somewhere around 12 or 15 right now. It is just tons of prison scenes about killing people and hiding money. It just seems to get old. I forget the connections between all the bad guys. Everyone is a bad guy. It keeps my interest enough that I'll continue with it and finish it up. JJ's girlfriend seems to have a very strong accent to the point where I wonder if the actress is faking it. She is my favorite character so far. Not too many of the characters have redeeming qualities so it is hard to "like" anyone.

I started Juana Ines today on Netflix. It is about a young girl from Spain in Mexico City living with the royals and she wants to be a tutor. If anyone is looking for an easy to understand show on Netflix I'd have to say this must be one of the best for someone who is just starting with TV. The audio description feature is available which doubles the amount of Spanish. The dialogue is spoken very clearly and slowly. It is Spain Spanish. They seem to be speaking with what is probably a bit of old Spanish (I believe it takes place in the 1600s), but that is not a problem for comprehension. This show is totally different than the other show I am watching. I'll watch both of them until I finish with one of the shows.

I have increased the intensity of my running. I think this has caused my comprehension to go down a bit. My mind seems to divert a bit more attention to the fact that I am hurting. I understood better when I was relaxed and not in pain. The harder running causes my mind to wander a bit more.

I'm not really doing much else. I speak Spanish when I can with anyone possible. Sometimes when big companies need to speak with me for work I do the Spanish option on their computer system and make them speak in Spanish to me. When I get all these telemarketing calls I answer in Spanish and tell them I am interested in their product in Spanish and see if I can get someone to try to sell me on their BS in Spanish. It is kind of fun. Usually they hang up on me. I guess that's what they get for calling me during dinner!

[the1whoknocks]

It’s a great feeling knowing that there are telemarketers out there being trolled. It would not be so bad if one could at least choose the language they would like to be hassled in.

Now that you mention it, I’m tempted to agree with you that it might be more common to learn a language without flashcards than it is with them. Although, that was not obvious to me before my initial question. I’ve since dropped flashcards, for now, and have been enjoying spending that time to read (or just not SRS).

I’ve had a few messages become lost in cyberspace too – No problem!

Thanks again for your time.

JJ's girlfriend seems to have a very strong accent to the point where I wonder if the actress is faking it. She is my favorite character so far. Not too many of the characters have redeeming qualities so it is hard to "like" anyone.

I'm not sure what to make of her accent either, but ... stay tuned ... I'd be interested to hear if your favorite character changes by the 25th episode.

EDIT: scratch that, now there is only one possible choice ... just watched episode 26

[BOLIO]

I liked the Juana Inés show on Netflix and before watching the show, I knew next to nothing about her fascinating life.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juana_Inés_de_la_Cruz

[James29]

I did a little research on JJ's girlfriend. It turns out that she is an actress from New Jersey. That is a bit of a letdown for some reason. I was expecting something a bit more exotic.

I liked the Juana Inés show on Netflix and before watching the show, I knew next to nothing about her fascinating life.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juana_Inés_de_la_Cruz

I feel like a big dummy. I did not know she was a real person. Now I think the show will be more interesting. I thought some of the story lines were a bit odd.

So, in terms of Spanish this week I just continued with more of the same. The Juana Inez show seems a bit out of my tastes, but it is good for Spanish. It feels a bit like a public TV historical show in Spanish. I'll definitely finish it off as there are not too many episodes.

Sobreviviendo a Escobar is more of the same... chasing money, killing people, smuggling things into jail. I've lost track of who is who. I only watched a few episodes this week as I focused more on Juana Inez.

I went into a bookstore this week and found myself longing for reading in Spanish. I have not read much at all this year. Later in the year I think I'll pick up a book and read one.

French hit me this week as "fun." I just kind of like picking up Assimil whenever I feel like it and reading through a lesson. I really like the book. It is definitely better than the Spanish one I did. I am somewhere around lesson 85 or something like that. I can still read the lessons fairly easily. I am picking up vocabulary and the "feel" for the language.

I have no plans or goals with French. It is just my side thing for now. I like it like that. I don't care if it takes me 10 years to get to a useful level. It is kind of fun just seeing how (slowly) I progress.

I will note that I am amazed at how I really can see progress in French on what likely amounts to about an hour a week.

[tastyonions]

I've been doing one Assimil Portuguese lesson per day for 29 days and I notice my understanding progressing really fast. Romance language transfer is awesome.