James29's Spanish and French Log

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iguanamon
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Re: James29's Spanish and French Log

Postby iguanamon » Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:54 pm

James29 wrote:...I got a phone call from a Spanish speaker at work this week. Or, at least, I assume he is a Spanish speaker. He had an obviously hispanic name and spoke with a strong accent. After speaking with him for a while in English I had no doubt that this guy was a Spanish speaker. His English was pretty good but his accent was so strong it was somewhat hard to understand him. I decided to launch into Spanish. It was strange because he simply responded in English and did not say a thing. It was almost like he completely ignored my Spanish or did not understand it. I worry sometimes about how to handle this situation. Usually I start in by asking (in Spanish) if they prefer English or Spanish and that works pretty well. ...

Living in the US where English dominates, it's always a conundrum. Some people may feel like switching to Spanish may be commenting on their English skills. Some people want to show that they can handle themselves in English. Some are just too shocked to hear their language spoken by an Anglo. "Anglos just don't speak Spanish beyond the bare bones basics." Where I live, and we are an English-speaking territory, most Spanish-speakers here have this notion of "you don't speak Spanish with Anglos", because, well... basically it's true. Most native English-speakers don't speak anything but English. That and most Spanish-speakers in our society are just not used to hearing their language spoken by a non-native, unlike English-speakers who are quite used to hearing their language spoken by non-natives. So, for me, whether to use Spanish or not is situational. Some people I deal with in my business are happy that I can speak Spanish. Others, for the reasons I gave above, will stay in English. There's a lot of baggage that comes along with being Anglo for second language speakers of Spanish like ourselves in our society relative to Spanish-speakers.
James29 wrote:...One really amazing thing about my French study is that it gives me an appreciation for what I accomplished in Spanish. I am getting a HUGE discount learning French because I already have native English and a high level of Spanish. Nevertheless, learning French is tough! It is going to take a LONG time to get to my French objectives. ...

Absolutely, it is amazing to be able to speak a second language at a high level when you come from a monolingual society with little exposure to other languages! Congratulations on finishing your first French book! Well done! Portuguese was my first language after Spanish. Of course, Portuguese is much more similar to Spanish than French is but it was still a struggle for me and it did take time (it's that 20% that's different), but it wasn't as difficult as learning Spanish from scratch was for me. Haitian Creole was much easier for me because of English, Spanish and Portuguese. Your objective with French is much like my objective with Portuguese was. You know what it takes to get there. You can keep it in the "slow cooker" on the back burner while you improve your Spanish to C2. Once you make a commitment to learn French to a high level, nothing will hold you back and you can take it as far as you want. Another world will open for you.
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Re: James29's Spanish and French Log

Postby James29 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:08 pm

iguanamon wrote:
James29 wrote:...I got a phone call from a Spanish speaker at work this week. Or, at least, I assume he is a Spanish speaker. He had an obviously hispanic name and spoke with a strong accent. After speaking with him for a while in English I had no doubt that this guy was a Spanish speaker. His English was pretty good but his accent was so strong it was somewhat hard to understand him. I decided to launch into Spanish. It was strange because he simply responded in English and did not say a thing. It was almost like he completely ignored my Spanish or did not understand it. I worry sometimes about how to handle this situation. Usually I start in by asking (in Spanish) if they prefer English or Spanish and that works pretty well. ...

Living in the US where English dominates, it's always a conundrum. Some people may feel like switching to Spanish may be commenting on their English skills. Some people want to show that they can handle themselves in English. Some are just too shocked to hear their language spoken by an Anglo. "Anglos just don't speak Spanish beyond the bare bones basics." Where I live, and we are an English-speaking territory, most Spanish-speakers here have this notion of "you don't speak Spanish with Anglos", because, well... basically it's true. Most native English-speakers don't speak anything but English. That and most Spanish-speakers in our society are just not used to hearing their language spoken by a non-native, unlike English-speakers who are quite used to hearing their language spoken by non-natives. So, for me, whether to use Spanish or not is situational. Some people I deal with in my business are happy that I can speak Spanish. Others, for the reasons I gave above, will stay in English. There's a lot of baggage that comes along with being Anglo for second language speakers of Spanish like ourselves in our society relative to Spanish-speakers.
James29 wrote:...One really amazing thing about my French study is that it gives me an appreciation for what I accomplished in Spanish. I am getting a HUGE discount learning French because I already have native English and a high level of Spanish. Nevertheless, learning French is tough! It is going to take a LONG time to get to my French objectives. ...

Absolutely, it is amazing to be able to speak a second language at a high level when you come from a monolingual society with little exposure to other languages! Congratulations on finishing your first French book! Well done! Portuguese was my first language after Spanish. Of course, Portuguese is much more similar to Spanish than French is but it was still a struggle for me and it did take time (it's that 20% that's different), but it wasn't as difficult as learning Spanish from scratch was for me. Haitian Creole was much easier for me because of English, Spanish and Portuguese. Your objective with French is much like my objective with Portuguese was. You know what it takes to get there. You can keep it in the "slow cooker" on the back burner while you improve your Spanish to C2. Once you make a commitment to learn French to a high level, nothing will hold you back and you can take it as far as you want. Another world will open for you.


I have generally found Spanish speakers I encounter through my business to be extremely appreciative of my Spanish. It often confuses them for a few minutes. I cannot recall ever having what I would call a negative reaction. I have definitely had a few people nicely tell me they prefer to use English. In fact, I actually prefer using English with customers if their English is better than my Spanish. I think there is more to the story with the guy I spoke with earlier this week. I suspect when I meet with him I'll learn that maybe he is Brazilian or perhaps Filipino or something and I just screwed up thinking he was a Spanish speaker due to his name and strong accent. It will not be the first time I screwed up.

I am seeing that I was a bit obsessed (and perhaps insane) with the amount of time and effort I put into learning Spanish. I don't have that fire anymore for Spanish - I am just using it on a regular basis and not "studying" at all. I am just trying to improve my level by using the language in enjoyable ways. I definitely do not have that fire at all for French. In fact, I am going about learning French in a very different way than I tacked Spanish - I'm doing it almost backwards. With Spanish I really hit on the grammar and conversations right from the start. I focused on reading last. With French I'm just trying to read and acquire vocabulary. I don't even really understand the grammar to any level where I could even explain it to someone. I can just kind of intuitively grasp the grammar well enough to understand. My active skills in French are exactly zero.
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Re: James29's Spanish and French Log

Postby James29 » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:44 pm

Well, I'm still going with Spanish. It is really just part of my life. It is so natural. Spanish is now part of me.

I watched more of my telenovelas. I did not have as much time on the treadmill with Netflix this week because I wanted to run a bit more outside. I watched three episodes of Ingobernable. I'll finish it tomorrow. It is a well done telenovela. It is interesting. There are some parts that seem a bit unrealistic. I find it impossible to believe that the entire Mexican government is trying to find the first lady and they can't. But, she can be part of this team of criminals who can kidnap the top Mexican general and get him to confess to a crime. Anyway, it is well done. I'm not a huge Kate del Castillo fan, but she is such a famous actress that it seems to mean her shows will be well done. Also, I was quite surprised to see her topless in two of the episodes. She is not really my type, but I did not mind. :)

I'm also on episode 55 of La Nina. I'll go back to that full time when I finish Ingobernable. The story is getting a bit more convoluted. I don't mind. They are introducing new characters and some minor characters are taking on a bigger role. There seem to be more subplots getting developed. I can sense that it is either going to blow up into a mish mash of bad story lines or it will come together pretty nicely. I love the audio description function and am really hoping Netflix adds another long (60+ episode) telenovela with this function.

I also got in several hours of reading my Michael Connelly book. Reading came back to me quite fast after the time off. I spent some time on the beach today and got in a good 2+ hours of reading. That's what is great about a book. You can take it and plop yourself in the shade on a great beach, listen to the waves, feel the sand between your toes, sip a dos equis, feel the breeze in your hair and read Spanish! Call me crazy, but I'll take that any day over those two episodes of Ingobernable.

I met with the customer I mentioned in my log last week. It turns out that he is Mexican and lived in Texas most of his life. He just has a horrible accent. He does not speak Spanish, but has a horrible accent in English. Strange. I never knew such a thing could exist. Why would he have such a strong Spanish accent in English if he does not speak Spanish? Anyway, I guess I'm always learning.

I did my local meetup, as usual. Nothing new there. I'm not listening to the VOA news either anymore. I don't want to break that habit. I'll get back into it soon.

I think I'll start reading again in French when I finish my Connelly book in Spanish. I'll probably read another Alex Rider. I'm thinking long-term about French. I've been watching Marseille on Netflix in English so I know the story. Eventually I'll watch it in French. There are only eight episodes but they are going to do another season. Also, it has the audio description and it has closed captioning. I figure if I watch something in French I want it to have those two features. I'll need accurate subtitles if I watch anything on TV.
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Re: James29's Spanish and French Log

Postby James29 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:28 pm

Not much new in my language journey. I'm still doing Spanish every day. I mostly just watch telenovelas while I go running on the treadmill. I watched La Nina this week. I'm on episode 62 right now. There are occasionally scenes where I space out a bit and I realize that I really did not follow what was happening. It is not a problem because it is a pretty easy story line to follow. I watched about 10 minutes with subtitles and realized that I do miss some of the words, but I don't seem to be missing any of the meaning. I need to get another show to watch because I cannot handle watching just one show for nine or ten episodes a week.

I am also reading Trunk Music in Spanish by Michael Connelly. I read it mostly on the weekends so I am moving through it pretty slow. I noticed that my speed has really increased. I put the font on the smallest possible size on my kindle and I read a page in just about a minute. I rarely look up words anymore and when I do it seems like my kindle does not even have the word in the Spanish dictionary. I like reading and think it is one of the best ways to maintain and improve a language. It is especially helpful in keeping vocabulary in your head and picking up new vocabulary.

I noticed this week that I speak with Spanish speaking customers at work quite often. I'd say it is rare now that I have a week go by without using my Spanish at work. Eventually I'll try to grow this part of the business. That's on the back burner now but it is one of the things that keeps me motivated to use and improve my Spanish. I don't know about all industries but it really seems like businesses ignore the Spanish speaking market.

I also went to my meetup. Nothing new there. Not much else in the world of Spanish.

I watched a couple episodes of Marseille in English. I like the show. It is delightfully cheesy. The characters are bigger than life and almost like cartoon characters. I have one episode left. When I feel up to it I'll try watching it in French with subtitles now that I know the story. I am happy that it is a series that I would not mind watching again. They say they will make another season so that would be nice.

When I finish the Connelly book in Spanish I think I'll tackle another Alex Rider book in French. I'd like to just slowly work my way through that series. Eventually I'll be able to read adult books in French. When I can do that I'll slowly work in speaking, etc. My French goals are to be able to do the following: 1) read an adult popular fiction book translated into French, 2) understand TV shows in original French (using subtitles is ok) and 3) meaningfully participate in the local meetup (maybe a low B2 conversational level). I hope to accomplish these goals in this order too. French is not my priority so I don't mind if it takes a long time.

Edited to correct the episode of La Nina I am really on.
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Re: James29's Spanish and French Log

Postby James29 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:03 pm

Right now I am sitting in a sidewalk cafe in Trois-Rivieres, Quebec listening to French and sipping a green tea after finishing a bagel. The only thing that could be better right now is that I should have ordered a Croissant and some sort of latte in one of those little tiny coffee cups!

Through a strange set of circumstances I had to spend the night here last night. I'll be leaving soon, but last night and this morning have revitalized my desire to learn French. Quebec is so cool. I visited Quebec City about 20 years ago and have wonderful memories, but those memories are so old they did not give justice to how much of an amazing place Quebec is.

Trois-Rivieres is a decent sized little city (I'm not sure how large) on the river (imagine that, it is on a river) halfway between Quebec and Montreal. There is a really cute and bustling downtown area which seems like the "old" part of the city. It is right on the waterfront and there is a street they close off for the foot traffic. The street has tons of nice restaurants and shops. This week is apparently a music festival so last night there were bands just walking around playing great music.

I am staying at a hotel right in the downtown area which is simply amazing. Last night I went out for a quick and easy dinner and beer and ended up chatting with a group of locals for a few hours. Every single person I have met here so far is very friendly. I tried out my French (which is objectively a total disaster) and I was able to accomplish some basics. My ability to communicate in any meaningful way was really non-existent. It was fun.

I notice, however, that I can definitely read French pretty well. I don't really think that it is in French, I just understand it. It could be French and Spanish mixed together and I'd still be able to understand it pretty well.

The cool thing about this city from a French perspective is that there is no indication of English anywhere. I have only seen English in a couple places like in the hotel directory book and on the screen at the ATM. These are places I'd expect to see a foreign language anyway.

I have not heard English at all when I'm not speaking with anyone. Everyone seems to speak English, however, and they are perfectly glad to switch to English when they hear me mangling basic sentences in French.

I am an early riser and also run every morning. My typical Saturday morning run is about 18 miles, but this morning I decided to take it easy because I did not want to get lost. I went out for about 6 and was able to see quite a bit of the city. I saw the industrial areas, the modern shopping areas and some residential areas. It really is a cool place and it amazes me that it can be so close to the US but so amazingly different culturally.

I think this 16 hours or so in Trois-Rivieres has caused me to put French back on my calendar and take away some of my Spanish time. I think I'll keep reading in French for a while and not worry about conquering speaking until I feel more comfortable reading.

In a couple days I'll have to pass through Quebec again and I might have to spend the night again somewhere here. If so, I think I'll pick a different place to visit.

In terms of actual language studying, I've been doing the typical stuff in Spanish. Right now it is just watching La Nina on Netflix. I'll finish pretty soon and give a review of the series. There are some characters that seem to have abruptly disappeared from the series without any explanation. It makes me wonder if I am missing something.

I also got in several hours of reading my Connelly book. My speed is increasing to a quite fast pace. I have the text on the smallest possible and I'm reading a page in about 45 seconds. This is the fastest I've ever read anything.

I'm not really doing anything else in Spanish or French. I do need to spend some time working on advanced grammar in Spanish, but that can wait. I'll get back into French again pretty soon.

Well, that's it for now. I'm off to enjoy my last few hours here in Trois-Rivieres.
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Re: James29's Spanish and French Log

Postby James29 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:28 am

Well, back to the real world. The last couple weeks were pretty cool for the few days I was in Quebec, but pretty much a drag with all the traveling. I got back today and will be back to my regular routine starting tomorrow.

Quebec was pretty cool, as noted above. I bought one bilingual French/English book of Stephen King short stories. It was the only thing in the bookstores I thought I'd be able to make use of within the next several weeks. It seems like it will be a good beach book. Hopefully I'll find some beach time sometime soon. Here is a link to the book I bought. I would not pay the Amazon price. I think I bought it for about $8 in Canada.

https://www.amazon.com/Stories-Nouvelle ... ch+english

In terms of Spanish, I finally finished my Michael Connelly book. This felt like a major accomplishment because I bought a Kindle six book special that included six Connelly books for the price of one. I have now read all of them. I'm really glad I bought the package as I now consider Connelly one of my favorite authors. The Bosch books are so comfortable to read. They are realistic and Connelly does a good job making the characters easy to bond with.

I'm also slowly moving through La Nina. I have six more episodes left. The plot has been changing in some different directions. What is up with Dr. Armando (or whatever his name is) trying to kill Belky? That is just dumb. Some characters have suddenly disappeared and I'm not clear why. I think (hope) they just vanished from the show as a way to get along with the regular plot (rather than me totally missing some major developments). What happened to the bad colonel (Baragan?), his wife, his daughter and her boyfriend/fiance? I know he got shot, but I did not think he died and that would not explain the disappearance of everyone else. What happened with the whole Silvia and her husband fight? The husband simply disappeared? I feel like I missed about ten episodes in the middle of the series. Maybe they did not publish all the episodes to Netflix? Anyway, I like the show and am really looking forward to finishing it.

I am a bit miffed at Netflix. I've been trying to figure out what I'll watch next after La Nina and a bunch of the telenovelas that were in my list have disappeared. As pointed out elsewhere, Made in Cartagena is no longer in Netflix. I was looking forward to watching it. The other two top candidates have disappeared too. If anyone has any recommendations I'd appreciate it. I'm looking for something that is between 60 and 100 episodes. I don't really like the whole drug dealing genre. I like businesses and beaches. I'd prefer something from Latin America. I don't mind if it is a bit cheesy, but I don't really like shows that are overly made for women.

Languages have taken a bit of a backseat over the past few weeks (and months). I really don't mind as there are obviously more important things in life like work and family. It is hard to justify spending any time on languages. Luckily I've fallen into a pretty good routine where I can simply watch telenovelas when I run on the treadmill. I feel like I'm killing two hobby birds with one stone. I'd love to get into French again as I think I could pick it up quite rapidly. We'll see what happens. I'm going to finish La Nina and then decide if I'll go heavy into French or continue with the Spanish comfort zone.
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Re: James29's Spanish and French Log

Postby Hank » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:11 am

I'm currently watching El hotel de los secretos on Netflix. It's a Mexican(?) remake of the Spanish Gran hotel. It's about the events happening in a hotel in Mexico around 1900. Julio arrives at the Gran Hotel to discover what happened to his sister, who worked there and disappeared. It has all the usual twists and turns, but I don't think it's quite as cheesy as the usual telenovela. There is also a bit of humor. I'm really enjoying it.
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Re: James29's Spanish and French Log

Postby crush » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:16 pm

Hey James, glad to see you're still around and kicking butt! I know you mentioned going through a couple grammar books before that you liked, i just got back from China after about 5 years and have been ignoring my Spanish a bit, i was looking for some advanced Spanish grammar books to sort of review i suppose, i picked up a book called "Uso de la gramática española: avanzado" but the first few chapters i've gone through seem kinda basic so far, i'm not sure if you have any suggestions?
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Re: James29's Spanish and French Log

Postby DaveBee » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:00 pm

Hank wrote:I'm currently watching El hotel de los secretos on Netflix. It's a Mexican(?) remake of the Spanish Gran hotel. It's about the events happening in a hotel in Mexico around 1900. Julio arrives at the Gran Hotel to discover what happened to his sister, who worked there and disappeared. It has all the usual twists and turns, but I don't think it's quite as cheesy as the usual telenovela. There is also a bit of humor. I'm really enjoying it.
I've been trying to convince my inner-cheapskate to let me buy the DVDs of the french dub of Gran Hotel, but he's not having it.
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Re: James29's Spanish (and sometimes French) Log

Postby DaveBee » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:54 pm

James29 wrote:So, in addition to Celia I watched "The Long Long Holiday." It is a French historical fiction cartoon set in Normandy during WWII. I absolutely loved it. It follows the lives of a few young kids that move to the country from Paris at the start of the war so they can live "safer" with their grandparents. Originally there were 10 half hour episodes for French TV. On Netflix it comes out as five 47 minute episodes. The story really grabbed me. I found the show because I was looking for something that would have a nice French connection and I'll be able to watch it in French eventually. It has audio in multiple languages including Brazilian Portuguese. I note that Netflix says it is for kids aged 5-10, which is definitely true - they did a great job presenting the "terrors" of war in a kid friendly way - but it was also quite satisfying for me, an adult.
I've just watched the first episode of this, very sweet, and the 5-10 age recommendation means it matches my Bescherelle école too!
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