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hedgehog.chess
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby hedgehog.chess » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:34 pm

I finally managed to finish Glossika Fluency 123 German course using 5-Month "Relaxed" schedule . From what I see it took me 251 days insted of the planned 147... No prizes for that. As I mentioned in the first post of this log I made the mistake of following it too religiously, namely doing it only when I had the opportunity to speak along with the recordings. I also took the GMS C files up to sentence 2018 as dictation. This sometimes amounted to about 1,5 hours just doing Glossika and nothing else. Sometimes it was just hard to find so much time for that.(And Glossika is supposed to be a supplementary course...) On top of that there were some personal issues that prevented me from following it for 1-2 weeks. Couple of such situations and I'm at day 251 :)
But all in all I think that it helped me to start speaking at a basic fluency level. By that I mean speaking without stopping every 2 words looking for the right word. Now it's every 3 words :) On a serious note, it's a good start. Too bad it lasted so long.

I made the most progress while going through the first 2 books, well especially the end of the first was a milestone. Second also gave me opportunity to practice common structures (passive for example). But the third one was not especially good in my opinion. Maybe i was just tired and wanted to just get over with it and that affects my opinion. But some sentences in it are just way too long and for some groups of sentences I didn't see any pattern. They just seem to be there for no particular reason. But it's just an opinion.
Anyway this post will be a reminder for me, how should I tackle Glossika if I ever want to go through this again (maybe with another language). Then i think I would go with one of two totally different strategies:
Strategy 1: Just go through all the GSR files 1 per day and it would take 300 days.
Strategy 2: Go through some "Hyper-relaxed" schedule lasting 4 months or less. And then if I can't speak during listening, so be it. Listened, checked and I'm going further. I think it's better then to waste time and doing everything by the book. This time can be better spend listening to native materials.
Last edited by hedgehog.chess on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MorkTheFiddle
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:30 pm

hedgehog.chess wrote:I finally managed to finish Glossika Fluency 123 German course using 5-Month "Relaxed" schedule .

Congratulations on setting a goal and reaching it. How many new words do you think you learned (rough guess) via Glossika?
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hedgehog.chess
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby hedgehog.chess » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:12 pm

MorkTheFiddle wrote:
hedgehog.chess wrote:I finally managed to finish Glossika Fluency 123 German course using 5-Month "Relaxed" schedule .

Congratulations on setting a goal and reaching it. How many new words do you think you learned (rough guess) via Glossika?


I really don't know. To be honest i didn't care much about the single words which were sometimes very obscure like:
Ölforderungsfirmenskandal :) But that was an extreme example.
I was looking for structures and expressions and I found quite nice ones that I did't hear before. The first ones that come to my mind:
Kannst du mich bitte daran erinnern,...; Es wäre mir lieber, wenn ...; Lass uns...; Bitte, entschuldigen Sie den Umstand, etc.
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hedgehog.chess
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby hedgehog.chess » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:23 pm

I think I'm using my commute time to the max. with listening to audiobooks. And it's also fun :) Here's what I listened to recently.

Momo by Michael Ende (3 hours and 11 Minutes).
It was not and audiobook but rather a Hörspiel. The sound was very clear and I followed the plot quite closely up to the culmination point, when sadly I didn't quite get what was going on and why... After that things went well again.
Anyway it's basically a story about a small village in which people start to "save" time. They are doing everything quicker and stop visiting one another just to have time for more productive things. The result is general chaos, dissatisfaction, growing anger and neglecting their children. Or is it just the description of the world of today? Something to reflect upon.

Pippi Langstrumpf geht an Bord by Astrid Lindgren (2 hours and 41 Minutes)
To be honest I've never read a book about the adventures of Pippi Langstrumpf. And I have to say i somewhat regret it now. I'm looking forward to reading the stories to my daughter when she will be big enough to enjoy the stories instead of just biting the cover. :)

Der 35. Mai oder Konrad reitet in die Südsee by Erich Kästner (52 Minutes)
This was the shortest story of the four. But surprisingly it was also the hardest in terms of comprehension. Why? The story is so absurd that I sometimes stopped the audio and thought to myself: is that really what's happening or maybe I didn't understand exactly the words?

Die Geschichte von Herrn Sommer by Patrick Süskind (1 hour and 58 minutes)
The most grown-up story. Mr. Sommer walks everyday from the sunset till the sundown, no matter the weather. He never speaks with anyone and noone has seen him drink anything. He just walks restless. In reality this bizarre character just serves the purpose for the narrator to reflect on his own childhood.
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hedgehog.chess
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby hedgehog.chess » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:40 pm

I managed to listen to 2 more audiobooks before the end of the year. I decided to go for translations, as they are supposed to be easier languagewise. But that wasn't exactly the case.

Blut und Rauch by Stephen King (4 hours and 24 minutes)
These are 3 short stories from the Everything's Eventual collection ("Lunch at the Gotham Café"; "1408"; "In the Deathroom"). The common theme for the stories is smoking/cigarettes. The first two were quite nice, I was able to follow the plot more or less and enjoyed them. But the third one was more action-packed, contained a lot of descriptions of actions in a narrow time frame. Unfortunately it was too fast for me, I didn't know what was going on for most of the time. It showed me how much I have yet to learn. All the same a valuable lesson.

Die Tote in der Bibliothek (The Body In The Library) by Agatha Christie (3 hours and 37 minutes)
Definitely the most enjoyable audiobook I listened to this year. Mainly due to simple language which manifested itself in a high comprehension rate. I think I could safely say it was at about 80% or maybe even more . The writing style is humoruos, enjoyable and simple. In one word entertaining ad therefore perfect for a language learner like me :)

And I didn't know any of the stories earlier.

I think both authors will feature more on my playlist. I'm fully aware that their works are not the most ambitious but are just fun.

Quick recap of 2017:
I listened to 58 hours of German audiobooks (mostly in the last 2-3 months) and done Glossika Fluency 123.
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hedgehog.chess
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby hedgehog.chess » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:23 pm

Plan of attack for 2018:
As I mentioned in my opening post I plan to do my own German Superchallenge-250 hours of audio and 2500 pages from 1st January to 31st October. As for audio I will mostly go for audibooks. For the ones listened while communiting I will use a factor of 0.8. That means for every 5 hours listened I will count 4. For the time being I want to try the L-R method. When listening in L2 and reading in L2 I will count the pages read. When listening in L2 and reading in L1 I will count the audio time. If it won't work for me I will switch to normal listening & reading.
Continue learning the flaschcards with useful phrases(I'm about halfway). I can already see big benefit from it. In every audiobook already listened I there were about 10 or more of them appearing.
Put interesting sentences in Anki. The more the better. It's all about the increase of input in German.
I would also like to improve my grammar, if I find the time. The same goes for pronunciation.
And I would like to use the avaliable "free,idle time"(I don't know the exact term) like commuting, waiting in line by filling it with language learning activities.
Ok, let's start studying :)
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hedgehog.chess
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List of resources 2018

Postby hedgehog.chess » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:51 pm

I decided to make a list of resources I use(d) in 2018 and keep it up to date.(I took the idea from Stefan's log) So here it is:

German

Audiobooks:
Ein Mord wird angekündigt-Agatha Christie
Meistererzählungen-Arthur Schnitzler
Emil und die Detektive-Erich Kästner
Homo Faber-Max Frisch
Der Vorleser-Bernhard Schlink
Im Westen nichts Neues- Erich Maria Remarque
Herr der Diebe-Cornelia Funke
Drei Männer im Schnee-Erich Kästner
Tintenherz-Cornelia Funke
Tintenblut-Cornelia Funke
Der Vorleser-Bernhard Schlink
Tintentod-Cornelia Funke
Im Westen nichts Neues- Erich Maria Remarque
Silber - Das erste Buch der Träume-Kerstin Gier
Silber - Das zweite Buch der Träume-Kerstin Gier
Silber - Das dritte Buch der Träume-Kerstin Gier
Dschinnland (Die Sturmkönige 1)(Gekürzte Ausgabe)-Kai Meyer
Wunschkrieg (Die Sturmkönige 2)(Gekürzte Ausgabe)-Kai Meyer
Glutsand (Die Sturmkönige 2)(Gekürzte Ausgabe)-Kai Meyer
Da die Menschen böse sind-Markus Heitz
Reckless: Steinernes Fleisch-Cornelia Funke
Reckless: Lebendige Schatten-Cornelia Funke
Reckless: Das goldene Garn-Cornelia Funke
Die Geschichte der Bienen-Maja Lunde
Couchsurfing in Russland: Wie ich fast zum Putin-Versteher wurde-Stephan Orth
Und Gott sprach: Es werde Jonas-Sebastian Niedlich
Du mich auch: Ein Rache-Roman-Ellen Berg
Die Känguru-Chroniken-Marc-Uwe Kling
Vollidiot-Tommy Jaud
Im Reich der Pubertiere-Jan Weiler
Kinder sind was Wunderbares: Das muss man sich nur IMMER WIEDER sagen-Johann König
Nicht nur zur Weinachtszeit-Heinrich Böll
Sebastian Kurz: Die Biografie-Paul Ronzheimer
Helmut Kohl, die Macht und das Geld-Hans Leyendecker
Limit-Frank Schätzing
Das Schiff-Andreas Brandhorst
Hiobs Brüder (Gekürzte Ausgabe)-Rebecca Gablé
Herrscher des Nordens-Die letzte Schlacht-Ulf Schiewe
Elefant-Martin Suter

Books:
Teufelskreis-William Drummond
Ensel und Krete: Ein Märchen aus Zamonien-Walter Moers
Der Richter und sein Henker-Friedrich Dürrenmatt
Der Verdacht-Friedrich Dürrenmatt
Siddhartha. Eine indische Dichtung-Hermann Hesse
Eine kurze Weltgeschichte für junge Leser-Ernst H. Gombrich
Mieses Karma-David Safier
Er ist wieder da-Timur Vermes
Der Mann mit dem Fagott: Roman-Udo Jürgens & Michaela Moritz
Der Junge muss an die frische Luft: Meine Kindheit und ich-Hape Kerkeling
Das Sakriversum - Thomas R.P. Mielke
Herrscher des Nordens - Thors Hammer-Ulf Schiewe
Herrscher des Nordens-Odins Blutraben-Ulf Schiewe
Flugangst 7A- Sebastian Fitzek

Grammar books:
Gramatyka w tłumaczeniach cz.3 B1 (from time to time) It’s in Polish so of limited use for most of learners here but it uses a nice concept. On the left side there are sentences in Polish that one should translate, and on the right translations with grammatical explanations. I just cover the right side and translate on my own, then check the answers. I find this format very handy, you don't have to flip the whole book to find the answers.

Gramatyka w tłumaczeniach cz.4 B2

Online courses and other electronic resources:
supermemo.net-Deutsche Grammatik (everyday 20-30 minutes)-stopped using at the beginning of May
supermemo.com- Extremes Deutsch A1-B2
Clozemaster (everyday 5-15 minutes) from time to time, there are more important things to do
FISZKI Niemiecki Czasowniki B for Android (everyday ~30 minutes)-stopped using at the beginning of May
German Listening app for Android (from time to time) The materials from Deutsche Welle from 2010 up to now gathered in one app(all with transcripts)

Phonetic:
“The German Pronunciation Trainer” by Gabriel Wyner
Praxisbuch Phonetik by Daniela Niebisch

Podcasts:
Hintergrund from Deutschlandfunk
Servus. Grüezi. Hallo. from Zeit.de
SWR 2 Wissen
Die Frage

Endlos-Serien :)
Lindenstraße


English

Audiobooks:
Pet Sematary-Stephen King

Grammar books:
Angielski w tłumaczeniach. Czasy

Podcasts:
This American Life
Invisibilia
Radiolab
Last edited by hedgehog.chess on Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:47 am, edited 42 times in total.
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hedgehog.chess
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby hedgehog.chess » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:53 pm

Besides my L/R attempt(look below) I continued my extensive listening while commuting.

Ein Mord wird angekündigt-Agatha Christie (5 hours 10 minutes)
Not much to say here-just another classical detective novel for Agatha Christie. Fun, easy to listen.

Meistererzählungen-Arthur Schnitzler (1 hour 19 minutes)
The language used is really beautiful but for I can't appreciate it in full. I will have to go with easier stuff. But it encouraged me to buy a used copy of the book(and Der Besuch der alten Dame from Friedrich Dürrenmatt and Homo Faber from Max Frisch for about 7$, postage included-bargain!)

Emil und die Detektive-Erich Kästner (3 hours 5 minutes)
A fun little story about a boy who gets robbed during his trip to Berlin and his attempts to get back the money, with a little help from his new friends. The way it's written is just great, very light and a pleasure to listen.

Herr der Diebe-Cornelia Funke (7 hours 53 minutes)
A quite straightforward , easy to follow while also quite interesting story. And written in such a way that one want to know what happened next. It’s about a group of children who from miscellaneous reasons live together in an old cinema . They live from stealing and everything changes when they accept the order to steal a peculiar, seemingly worthless object.
Fun fact: For some reason there seems to be a lot of size up-ing (mustern-64 times) and shrugging(Achseln zucken-28 times) in the book.

Conclusion: For now I will go for kids/young adult literature trying to grasp the more grown-up stuff with L/R.
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hedgehog.chess
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My first L/R attempt

Postby hedgehog.chess » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:53 pm

I started experimenting with the L-R method from 8th January and here are my experiences with it so far:
The first book I used was Homo Faber by Max Frisch. Important note: Before I started with L-R I already knew the plot of the story, as I listened to an audiobook in Polish. And I used a parallel text.

Listening in L2, reading in L2
Day 1: Why is he reading it so fast?
Day 2 : Why is he reading it so slow? (maybe someone could explain that?)
Day 3 and Day 4: I was comfortable with the reading speed of the reader,(nor too fast nor too slow) although I didn't understand everything. In fact, to be honest, I was sometimes missing the meaning of the whole paragraphs.

Listening in L2, reading in L1

I was really nervous before I started this, because I thought I won't be able to make the sense of German audio while reading L1. That was fortunately not the case, but it was hard to get used to at first. But the more I listened, the more words I could connect. Sometimes I managed to check the spelling in German while keeping up with listening(parallel text really helped)
I tried (with one exception-20 minutes left to end the book) to do sessions of no less than 45 minutes each. The longest one lasted 2 hours after my brain cried for help and it made no sense to continue. The optimal time for me seems to be 1.5 hours. I noticed that the time I start to relax and don't have to concentrate that much was reached after about 20 minutes. Then some extra minutes to start just enjoying the story without trying to catch every unknown word.
It seems that books really work as a natural SRS system (or maybe rather Glossika-lots of repetition in little time). Some words were cropping quite a lot in the book (the first place goes to beziehungsweise-solid 56 times) so even if I missed that the first time round I could catch up on it.
Something about the book itself: I really enjoyed it. And I sympathized with the main character, and engineer who doesn't believe in destiny or fortune. And such man got caught in a series of random events that ultimately lead to tragedy. It seems that there's not a lot going on in the book but the insights on life from a point of view of a scientist, someone who is interested just in facts, make it really read worthy. One example:
Alles ist nicht tragisch, nur mühsam: Man kann sich nicht selbst Gutnacht sagen - Ist das ein Grund zum Heiraten?

And the language used is not especially complicated, so good for low-intermediate learner.
To sum up how I used Homo Faber:
L2/R2 1 time (7 hours 26 minutes)
L2/R1 2 times (14 hours 52 minutes)
Next week I will read it once again and try to pick up some interesting sentences for Anki.
I noticed an interesting thing after my first L/R experiment. It was really really hard to compose the three posts(this one and two above). My brain wanted to work in German and threw German words at me instead. I really struggled to write this, and I hope my English won’t take offence and decide to leave. :)
I don’t know if doing a one more L2/R1 session would have any benefit. Maybe I will try this with the next, shorter book.
Last edited by hedgehog.chess on Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gsbod
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby gsbod » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:22 pm

I read Homo Faber last year and I found it to be one of those books that really gets under your skin once you finish it. I struggled to sympathise with the main character but by the end I really felt sorry for him. I disagreed with his worldview and yet I felt he really didn't deserve for things to turn out the way they did - even if it was a direct result of his inability to see what was really important.
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