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neuroascetic
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Learning: German
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... hp?p=92431
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby neuroascetic » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:44 am

How do you like the supermemo.net course? I've used classic Supermemo since 2010, but have never done one of their courses. Thanks for recommending the DW app. That looks really useful. I've noticed mustern being used a lot in the Harry Potter books as well. This is the gif that's associated with my mustern card in Readlang, which makes me chuckle every time.
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hedgehog.chess
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby hedgehog.chess » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:47 pm

gsbod wrote:I read Homo Faber last year and I found it to be one of those books that really gets under your skin once you finish it. I struggled to sympathise with the main character but by the end I really felt sorry for him. I disagreed with his worldview and yet I felt he really didn't deserve for things to turn out the way they did - even if it was a direct result of his inability to see what was really important.

The great thing about such books is that everyone can have a different interpretation of it. I read/listened to it 4 times now and every time I found something new. Now for example, that no character was really happy. Even Sabeth/Elsbeth/Elisabeth admits, that she wanted to marry a man she didn’t even like. The moments of happiness were short, and that’s what I extracted for me from that book- enjoy every moment of happiness, don’t take it for granted, you never know how long it will last.
There are some many themes here that one could write another book analyzing them. What disturbs me know-was Walter aware at the end, that such wonderful person as Sabeth, could have never came into the world, because of his beliefs?
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hedgehog.chess
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby hedgehog.chess » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:17 pm

neuroascetic wrote:How do you like the supermemo.net course? I've used classic Supermemo since 2010, but have never done one of their courses. Thanks for recommending the DW app. That looks really useful. I've noticed mustern being used a lot in the Harry Potter books as well. This is the gif that's associated with my mustern card in Readlang, which makes me chuckle every time.


I really like it. But it’s meant to be a review course. Therefore you will find no explanation of grammar. So if you do something wrong it’s up to you to find the explanation why. So it’s good to have at least intermediate knowledge before you start. But it’s useful in identifying areas you should work on. And the level system is quite awkward, for example you have Relativsätze in chapter 4(of 10) and Reflexivpronomen in chapter 5, although Reflexivpronomen are, in my opinion, much easier and studied much faster in I think all courses. So it's not a step by step course.
I really like the synchronization option between Android app and browser version (but you have to pay for one year in advance for that. It was a Christmas gift so I didn't have to worry about that part :)).
And I think it’s better to try the newer supermemo.com site. You can get an account for free and try some courses. I will probably go for their Extremes Deutsch vocabulary course, but I have to deal with other ones first. And yes, I’m a sucker for SRS…
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hedgehog.chess
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L/R round 2

Postby hedgehog.chess » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:48 am

Ok, another L/R attempt. I planned to do 10 days of L/R in February, but unfortunately due to some changes at work, I could only manage 5 days. That meant that instead of the planned 20 hours (more or less comfortable 2 hours/day) , I went for 15 hours (and troublesome 3 hours/day). That also meant that my experiment, if doing an extra run of R1/L2 would give enough benefit to justify the extra time and effort , will have to wait.

First about the book I used- Der Vorleser by Bernhard Schlink. If I would have to describe it with one word it would be “thought-provoking”. The topic is still controversial, as can be seen for example from the recent political events between Poland, Israel and USA, so I won’t write much about it. The book encouraged me to seek information and learn more about the described places and mentioned people. The people who read it will know what I’m talking about. After reading, it stays with you. Definitely a good piece of literature, and it was worth it, reading and listening to it 3 times.(in German plus I read it 1 time in Polish about 6 month ago) I should also add that it's outstandingly good read by Gert Westphal.

Back to language learning. The language used was in my opinion more difficult than in Homo Faber. And after finishing the 3rd run I felt that I didn’t learn that much from it either (language-wise). But without some concrete method of comparison, I can’t be sure. One positive thing I noticed, was that I felt less exhausted after each session, than I was when working with Home Faber. I assume it means, that I’m getting more and more accustomed to the language and that daily listening really pays off.(~1 hour extensive listening)

Well, it was another struggle to write the post, my English has really taken offence. Next L/R round will be in March.
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hedgehog.chess
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“Sukhishvili”

Postby hedgehog.chess » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:09 pm

Not exactly language related. If you ever have the chance to go and watch the Georgian National Ballet “Sukhishvili” in action, just go for it. I was at their performance last Friday and it was an amazing experience. The mix of Georgian music and spectacular dance was just breath-taking. They are truly great ambassadors of their country and culture. Here’s a small sample of their abilities, but it really doesn't do justice to their skills and experience as a whole.

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hedgehog.chess
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Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:46 pm
Languages: Polish (N), English (~B2ish), German (~B2ish)
Language Log: https://tinyurl.com/yaofno9u
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby hedgehog.chess » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:35 am

I thought that my next post would be about my next LR attempt and it is, sort of. While doing the first run through the book (L2/R2) I’ve had a ‘what the hell am I doing?’ moment. it occurred to me that the whole L/R concept is not for me. At least not in the form it was meant to be used by its ‘inventor’. That is, as an attempt to create an immersion environment, which means doing it a couple of hours a day. I don’t work that way, I’m more of a 20-30 minutes task guy. So trying to force myself to sit 2-3 hours listening to an audiobook was just silly. But it takes of course nothing from the method itself.

I also came to the conclusion that I’m too obsessed with numbers. Number of pages, number of hours listened/watched, number of cards reviewed etc. You can see two examples of that in my signature. I will leave those two because I really hate to leave things unfinished. But it really doesn’t and won’t matter if I will reach those artificial goals by 31st October or not. I don’t even know where did I got that 250 hours of audio from ?! And what should happen after those 250 hours and 2500 pages?

I noticed that I haven’t written yet anything about chess in this log. For many years it was my life. I spend an enormous amount of time on it. Not that I was especially talented. Exactly the opposite. ( My peak rating was around 2100 FIDE-just a note for someone who knows what I’m talking about :))But I loved studying it and I own it a lot. My English wouldn’t be the same without watching hundreds of chess related videos. And strangely enough it will be the post in which I announce, that I’m quitting studying it for now. I just don’t have that much time, and my main priority is language learning. The employers are also more likely to appreciate medium level language skills than medium level chess playing skills. It’s of major importance because I will be looking for another job in 1-1,5 years’ time. But I will from time to time play a quick 5-minute game on the Internet. And people say that chess is an addiction, so I will probably someday go back to playing more seriously. I myself know two cases of people going back after 15 year hiatus. Not all is lost :)

Ok, enough about the things I don’t do. Now to the things that I actually do/did:

Still listen to audiobooks while commuting (more about it later)

Went through all the cards from the supermemo.net-Deutsche Grammatik. Now I will review them. I picked up some construction I didn’t know before. Some of them are admittedly not that useful. At least I haven’t run across them yet in native materials. But it’s nice to know about their existence anyway.

Use Clozemaster ~5 minutes/day

Started to use the DW Alltagsdeutsch to train my listening comprehension and improve my reading skills/vocabulary. First I look up for new words, see if I understand the text then I listen without looking at the text, listen while reading, listen without reading again. Basically what iguanamon suggested for training listening.The next day I listen while reading and listen without reading the text from yesterday. I don’t get psyched out with memorizing any vocabulary, some words stick, some don’t.

Go through the book Gramatyka w tłumaczeniach cz.3 B1. The nice feature is that it has Polish-German (like Glossika B files) and German mp3 files (like like Glossika B files). Before starting a new lesson I go through the German audio of the last 5 lessons (about 5 min/lesson) and repeat after the recording . Then I write the answers to today’s lesson, check with the key and listen to Polish-German file. The book not only teaches grammar but the examples also contain colloquial language.

Started reading “Im Westen nichts Neues” (reaaaly slow)

My work schedule enables me 2 weeks of more intensive language learning study followed by 2 weeks of barely doing anything. I’m now at week one of the intensive part so I will see how it goes further. Basically, what I was trying to say in this way too long poast,is, that I will try to be a more take-it-easy version of myself.
Suggestions, correctionsm are welcome.
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hedgehog.chess
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Tintenwelt

Postby hedgehog.chess » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:06 am

A little update about audiobooks that I listened to lately.

Tintenherz & Tintenblut & Tintentod (~60 hours) by Cornelia Funke

Tintenherz is often described as THE book for German learners. It tells the story of Mo and his daughter Maggie. They both possess a curious gift, namely they can read the fictional characters from books into our world. Unfortunately it comes with a price- for every character that comes out of the book someone has to go into the “book world”. I have to say quite a clever idea.

But the first book in the trilogy is probably also the worst one. The second are third part are much more interesting but more demanding languagewise. Both due to the fact the action takes place in the imaginary Tintelwelt (descriptions of the nature, castles, imaginary creatures and their skills). With every book the story is getting darker arriving even at torturing in Tintentod (an idea probably inspired by the Harry Potter series-the getting darker part). I also think that every book could have been much shorter. But for a language learner-the more the better. But, I admit, there were some moments when I was really sick of listening to Basta threatening other people and talking over and over and over about his knife.[spoiler]Luckily for my sanity me he got killed by the end of the Tintenblut only to appear in the 3rd part just for about 5 minutes. [/spoiler]

Mrs. Funke has also created one my least favorite characters of all time- Orpheus. I was quite tense when I heard him speak, I felt like punching him in the face. I think it’s a victory for the author when (s)he’s work bring emotions, no matter good or bad.

I find it curious, that my favorite characters where those which play the supporting role: Elinor and Fenoglio. Both for their sometimes sarcastic sense of humor. And their fights with each other. Also the fact that they don’t feature so heavily in the book, meant that I didn’t get tired of listening to them.

Definitely not the entertainment of the highest caliber, but worth listening through. Lots of repetitions make you catch a lot of vocabulary without noticing it.

And I have to say that listening to and being able to understand quite a bit from the story is making all the hours I've put into studying German worthwhile.
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hedgehog.chess
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Posts: 132
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Languages: Polish (N), English (~B2ish), German (~B2ish)
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby hedgehog.chess » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:27 pm

Silber - Das erste,zweite & dritte Buch der Träume by Kerstin Gier (~30hours)

Couple of high school students discover that they can visit other people dreams. Written in a lively, modern and humorous style. It brought a smile to my face more than once. Again, definitely not a piece of art(rather yet another high school drama with a lot of clichés). Just something light that can entertain you while using public transportation. It was meant for teenage girls and I probably wouldn’t have picked it up in Polish. But I had the excuse of using it as a language learning material and I don’t regret. I was able to understand quite a lot and get used to some teenage German (if I can call it that way) in the process. Maybe I will try another book from Mrs. Gier in the near future. (But It definitely won’t be ‘Liebe geht durch alle Zeiten’. That would be too much. But ‘Wolkenschloss‘ sounds interesting) Off to another trilogy :)

EDIT: Corrected some mistakes, if you find more please point them out.
Last edited by hedgehog.chess on Sun May 06, 2018 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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hedgehog.chess
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Posts: 132
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby hedgehog.chess » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:40 am

A quick overview of what I’ve done since the last update:

  • I listened to:

    The ‘Die Sturmkönige‘ trilogy from Kai Meyer (~22hours). This includes 3 audiobooks: Dschinnland, Wunschkrieg and Glutsand. The story takes place in an alternative world in Middle East in 8th century. The djinns appeared on earth 52 years before the events presented in the book through a mysterious occurrence called ‘Ausbruch der wilden Magie’. Now they try to annihilate mankind. The main character, carpet rider and smuggler Tarik al-Jamal, gets involved in the battle between the djinns and the main resistance force of man -‘Die Sturmkönige’.
    I can’t deny that the author has really rich imagination. As for my comprehension-the descriptions of the battles and of imaginary beasts were a real challenge. Too bad there were really a lot of them both. Dialogs and narrative were ok. I really need to broaden my vocabulary, to be able to follow dynamic action in books.

    ‚Da die Menschen böse sind‘ by Markus Heitz (~2 hours)
    Grand opening of a new party club. All the doors are being closed from outside and the rules for the game are announced. People can do whatever they want. They have access to drugs alcohol, and all kinds of weapons. The doors are going to open after 24 hours.
    Although it may seem an interesting concept the short story was mediocre and really nothing new.

  • For the time being I finished using DW Alltagsdeutsch for improving listening comprehension. Don’t get me wrong, I think the material is really good. I used it to train listening comprehension but in the process I discovered that if I didn’t understand something it was because it was an unknown word or expression. I hope I don’t overrate myself. But I will use the materials by just reading the articles. They cover a wide variety of topics from the life of bats in the Eifel region to producing mustard. They fit nicely into that, what iguanamon has written in his excellent post with their all-rounded vocabulary. I really don’t know how he does it but every post by him is pure gold for language learners.

  • To build up my vocabulary I started Extremes Deutsch courses from supermemo.com. Equivalent for ANKI but I’m taking it easy.

  • I would really like to be able to spend more time reading books. Unfortunately this requires my full attention (Golden Time as described by zKing) and I’m reading at most about 10 pages/day, generally 1-2 pages :( That's the reason for the big disproportion between my progress bars. To be honest all the pages for this bar come from L/R as I don't add anything before I finish it.

  • I really have to work on my pronunciation (well, on speaking in general). I should have taken care of this when I was started to learn German... I ordered the book Praxisbuch Phonetik: Aussprachetraining für Deutsch als Fremdsprache (Paperback). The sample looks very good and I hope I can make good use of it.
Last edited by hedgehog.chess on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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hedgehog.chess
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Re: A chessplayer learns languages (German for now)

Postby hedgehog.chess » Sun May 06, 2018 3:00 pm

Yes! I finished reading my first German book. I mean without the aid of an audiobook. This also lead me to the conclusion that counting L/R as reading feels like cheating, at least for me. And I don’t mean it in emk’s “cheating and consolidating” way.(Worth a read BTW) So I decided to “convert” my pages read count obtained this way to listening time. This means it’s highly unlikely that I will “finish” the challenge I have set myself (look bars below the post) but as I’ve said before it doesn’t really matter.

I won’t write a lot about the book itself. It was a cheap paperback thriller from 1962 with just 150 pages “Teufelkreis” by William Drummond. It’s about blackmailing homosexuals, in the times when being one was punishable by law. So why did I read it? I just spotted it on a shelf in a bookcrossing spot. I haven’t seen a German book there before so I just took it as a some sort of sign :)
For the time being I will stick with reading some thin and not so serious books to get a feeling of achievement after finishing each one. I hope this will help me to keep the momentum.

I also decided to let go of 2 SRS decks and just go with supermemo vocabulary courses. I’m considering dropping Clozemaster.
The two left behind are:
  • FISZKI Niemiecki Czasowniki B for Android- I think the material is really good if I could just get it out of the app and put in Anki. The app is really an example of Leitner box gone wrong. The algorithm sometimes didn’t let me to see new cards for a week because I had to “master” the ones already in play to who knows what degree.
  • supermemo.net-Deutsche Grammatik – I did all the exercises and seeing them over and over again seemed like a bad investment of time vs value gained in the process. For now it would also be an an overkill because I’m working with a grammar book I really like.

I will try to shift the balance to using more and more native materials.

Loose thought to end my post. Maybe it’s more like a note to myself: It’s sometimes hard to organize my language learning when working 3 shifts 6-7 days a week and being a father of an almost 2 years old curious girl and a husband to a demanding wife who is a language-learner in her own right :) I’m really pleased with myself that I manage :) Really, the less pressure I put on myself the more I get done.
Last edited by hedgehog.chess on Mon May 07, 2018 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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