To be an outstanding tourist.

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sfuqua
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Languages: Bad English: native
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French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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To be an outstanding tourist.

Postby sfuqua » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:57 am

I want to be able to lead my family through holidays in France and Spain (maybe...) next summer. I can read Spanish at an advanced level already, and I bet I could get my French reading to a pretty high level by next summer, at least Harry Potter level, but... reading isn't talking.
Like many people who study a language by themselves, my spoken language lags behind my receptive skills.
I have limited time and energy to try to remedy this weakness.
It always seemed to me that a B1 or B2 level is a very good level for someone who is a guest in someone else's country. At this level, one can communicate at length with native speakers who want to talk to you. It would be great to reach this level.
I'm going to try various approaches to try to get there by June 9.
Pimsleur is just too slow and painful to use for my taste, at least right now.
Assimil is fun, and teaches a bit of grammar also, although it needs supplementation.
Old Glossika just leaves a bad taste at this point.
FSI is a multiyear project.
Or I can just start off reading aloud and shadowing to learn as much as I can and plan to read a phrasebook on the plane to fill in blanks.
If I do the extensive reading aloud shadowing approach, I'm may work through French for Reading a the same time. I really need to know more about French grammar.
If I shadow through Assimil, I need to do some sort of approach that will keep me focused on the meaning of what I am shadowing.

I'm going to start experimenting with approaches this week to see which I enjoy doing.
Much, much more than trying to find an effective method, I want to find an approach that I enjoy. I'm doing this for fun.
6 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

Xmmm
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Re: To be an outstanding tourist.

Postby Xmmm » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:47 am

sfuqua wrote:I'm going to try various approaches to try to get there by June 9.
Pimsleur is just too slow and painful to use for my taste, at least right now.
Assimil is fun, and teaches a bit of grammar also, although it needs supplementation.
Old Glossika just leaves a bad taste at this point.
FSI is a multiyear project.
Or I can just start off reading aloud and shadowing to learn as much as I can and plan to read a phrasebook on the plane to fill in blanks.

I'm going to start experimenting with approaches this week to see which I enjoy doing.
Much, much more than trying to find an effective method, I want to find an approach that I enjoy. I'm doing this for fun.


If you want effective, book 50 hours of Italki between now and June 9. No instruction, just conversation practice.

Experience the brain melt.
4 x

Ещё раз сунешь голову туда — окажешься внутри. Поняла, Фемида? -- аигел

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sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: To be an outstanding tourist.

Postby sfuqua » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:49 pm

I've been thinking about what I really like about my recent language learning experiences.
Most people cut back on the languages they know when they are learning a new language.
I have been paralleling what I am doing in French with Spanish, for almost a year now. I have made a lot of progress in Spanish, but repeating Assimil in Spanish or something is probably overkill to do maintenance on my Spanish.

I had a nice conversation in Samoan the other day, my first one in a year or so, I think, and I did fine. After 35 years of neglect, my spoken Samoan is still my strongest L2. I guess my Spanish probably won't disappear completely if I only use it to watch the news and read articles for a few months. I'm pretty sure that I'm already at a pretty strong A2/B1 level in production, and my B2/C1 level receptive skills probably will still be there after some more French.

I'm not sure yet, but I may experiment with dropping Spanish study for a while. I feel very nervous about it; it has been years now that I was always studying something in Spanish every day.

But I have a big "language crush" on French right now. Everything French seems cool to me.

Maybe I should give my brain a French diet for a while.
2 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

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Axon
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Re: To be an outstanding tourist.

Postby Axon » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:39 pm

I love hearing about your experience with Samoan! It's amazing that you learned it so well that it can be ignored for so long and still bounce back. I'm sure I'm not the only one here that would be glad to hear more Samoan stories.

You could try a real basic approach, namely, recording yourself acting out phrasebook dialogues and then critiquing your own performance before recording again. I also always recommend the subtitled street interviews from Easy Languages on Youtube: here's easy French and easy Spanish. These are amazing for building listening comprehension for when you actually go to the country.

Having traveled recently to lots of places, what passes for "outstanding tourist" varies enormously from community to community. Even if you stopped all your language study right now, you would still go far and have many excellent experiences. Right now the one "outstanding tourist" activity of mine that I can bring to mind was going to a museum in Germany that had no English, and still being able to read all the captions and listen to the tour guide. Not a ton of advanced L2 output in being a good tourist.
3 x

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sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: To be an outstanding tourist.

Postby sfuqua » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:47 pm

The suggestions I've had on speaking practice are excellent. I definitely will use the youtube suggestions and the self recording suggestions.
I know that it is doubtful that I'm going to have extended conversations with anyone in France or Spain. I'm traveling with my family; I'm there to have fun, and random strangers don't owe me a free language lesson. I'd just like to be able to if I get the chance.

I have copies of Sandburg's reading books for both French and Spanish. The French book looks very exciting; it looks like the exact prescription to cure my shaky French grammar. I think I want to do this book in parallel with whatever else I do.
Of course, I may successfully complete a reading course in French and have minimal impact on my spoken skills.
I have experimented with the Assimil French and Spanish courses. I'm pretty sure that anybody who completed with toil, with ease, and Using courses would be ready to start reading extensively.
Of course, I may successfully complete an Assimil course in French and have minimal impact on my spoken skills (I've done that in Spanish :roll: ).
I'm having fun planning and studying in different ways.
1 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

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sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: To be an outstanding tourist.

Postby sfuqua » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:23 pm

And Pimsleur works great for simple tourist talk...
More than anything else I've seen, it gets words coming out of the mouth.

And there is GSR.
0 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6299

Re: To be an outstanding tourist.

Postby sfuqua » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:48 pm

It's sort have been fun playing with different language courses each day for the past few days. I've tried assimil, pimsleur, old glossika, FSI...
Most of these courses would be excellent in some ways. I have a tremendous amount to learn. I just couldn't make up my mind. Since I've had several days off from work, I've also been fooling around with other things. I did listening-reading with a couple of books, a couple of books which were translated from English. I've tried all of the standard things that I would advise someone to try.

Since I've had the time, I also just started reading a French novel, just looking up all the words that I need to understand what is going on. After thinking about the way that many people do shadowing, the way that you return to the same material each day for a series of days rather than repeating the same material many times on one day, I started each day at the beginning of the book each day. Of course each day I would start out faster, since there were fewer unknown words, and I would get further into the book each day before I would hit the wall of new words. So, I've been doing intensive, repeated reading. Eventually, I'll move forward a page or two and then continue the process. As my vocabulary increases, I can move faster and faster, eventually switching to extensive reading.

Of course this isn't a way to rapidly build speaking skills.
However, building reading skills and vocabulary won't hurt.
And I love reading.
I've started reading in Spanish again also.

And...
I can see it now.
I'm sitting in Paris.
People walk by and say to each other, "What an Outstanding Tourist! He is reading a book in French!"
7 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

DaveBee
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Re: To be an outstanding tourist.

Postby DaveBee » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:23 am

sfuqua wrote:Since I've had the time, I also just started reading a French novel, just looking up all the words that I need to understand what is going on. After thinking about the way that many people do shadowing, the way that you return to the same material each day for a series of days rather than repeating the same material many times on one day, I started each day at the beginning of the book each day. Of course each day I would start out faster, since there were fewer unknown words, and I would get further into the book each day before I would hit the wall of new words. So, I've been doing intensive, repeated reading. Eventually, I'll move forward a page or two and then continue the process. As my vocabulary increases, I can move faster and faster, eventually switching to extensive reading.
I like that idea! :-)

For some reason I seem to have several books on the go at once, but one is on an eReader (with its little pop-up dictionary), so I'll try it with that one.
0 x

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Stelle
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Re: To be an outstanding tourist.

Postby Stelle » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:53 am

sfuqua wrote:I can see it now.
I'm sitting in Paris.
People walk by and say to each other, "What an Outstanding Tourist! He is reading a book in French!"
:lol: :lol: :lol:
2 x

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6299

Re: To be an outstanding tourist.

Postby sfuqua » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:16 am

FR
SRS: 25 / 10000 10000 sentences
reading: 185 / 10000 10000 pages
watching: 520 / 10000 10000 minutes
ES
SRS: 25 / 10000 10000 sentences
reading: 5565 / 10000 10000 pages
watching: 9000 / 10000 10000 minutes

The repeated intensive reading (RIR) I've been doing seems to be having a good impact on my reading, and I look forward to moving beyond it to extensive reading.

I love reading, but it isn't a complete language program. I've made and anki deck of sentences from subtitles. I threw in sentences from a variety of movies, a few old Hollywood movies, some French, some Spanish, some artsy, some raunchy, all mixed together. I've been doing these cards pretty much the old 10000 sentences method. Read the card with the TTS voice, read the translation, and repeat the sentence aloud without looking at the print. If I did not recognize the meaning of the sentence, I fail the card.
This gives me some output practice, and there are many sentences which may be useful when visiting a country.

I'm going to do this for a while.
2 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...


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