Radioclare's temporary(?!) log

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Radioclare's temporary(?!) log

Postby Radioclare » Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:57 pm

I'm quite relieved that I haven't lost my old log, though there were a few hours yesterday where I wished I had followed MrWarper's advice about backing up a little more diligently :oops: I'm keeping my log offline for the time being so that I can still keep track of my progress, but I figure there's no harm in posting it here as well...

Saturday 18 July

Having finished 'Budva' I've been looking for a new series to watch in Croatian. Technically I don't *need* one as I've already finished the Super Challenge and given up on a Double Challenge, but listening has helped me a lot and I'd like to continue doing it. I've had several suggestions of what to watch (including some really helpful ones from kind people at Lang-8) but the main problem I've had with each suggestion has been tracking the episodes down.

I was looking with 'Budva' that all the episodes were legally available on Youtube. With the other series I've been considering, I've managed to find some of the episodes on Youtube but not all. I don't want to start getting addicted to something and then not be able to find the next episode in a really exciting storyline, so this is a problem. Some series I can't find anything on Youtube at all, although there are some episodes (again, not necessarily all) on less reputable websites. I'm sure you can find anything online if you look hard enough for it, but (legalities aside) I want to spend the limited time I have available to watch Croatian actually, you know, watching Croatian, not trawling through google search results, battling annoying advertising and running virus scans on my computer.

I was on the verge of giving up and proceeding to watch 'Bitange i Princeze' all over again, when I accidentally found something which I would never have dreamed existed in Croatia: Oyo.

Oyo seems to be like a Croatian TV-on-demand website. For a small subscription fee you have access to thousands of episodes of Croatian TV programmes, hundreds of films and some children's cartoons and documentaries too. A lot of the films are American, but there are ex-Yu ones in there too. As well as Croatian series there are a lot of Turkish and Mexican ones as well (not sure why!).

It seemed too good to be true. I was worried that it might only work if you had a Croatian IP-address (or a Croatian mobile phone, like the wonderful e-book site I found before!) but there was an entire section of the instructions explaining what you could access from abroad. Each series on the website has a summary page which clearly shows whether it can only be watched by people in Croatia or whether it can be viewed from anywhere, so I was able to see that not being Croatian wasn't going to significantly hamper me. The first 7 days are free anyway, so if I'd signed up and then found there was nothing I wanted to watch it wouldn't have been a problem.

The subscription is 99 kuna for 3 months. I thought for a moment about whether that it was too extravagant to pay that, and then I remembered that I pay the equivalent of 115 kuna every day just for my train fare to work. So 99 kuna over 3 months is nothing. Of course, my bank will slap me with a horrible charge for making an international transaction, but if I decide I really like OYO there is an option to pay for 24 months upfront, which I guess would limit the frequency of the bank charges.

I've already been making good use of. I had a few teething problems as the software to watch the videos doesn't seem to work well with Google Chrome. In fairness, this is clearly stated on the website and there is an entire page of instructions about settings to change in Chrome which is supposed to make it work, but it didn't for me. Not sure whether this was because my computer is on Windows 8 or because I wasn't following the instructions properly. Obviously there were in Croatian, and computer instructions aren't my strong point anyway ;)

The easy solution was to watch in Firefox instead, which works perfectly :) I've already watched the first four episodes of "Larin Izbor".

What to say about "Larin Izbor"? Well, I've decided to give it a go because it's a famous Croatian telenovela. It's about a young girl called Lara who comes from one of the Croatian islands. It might be Korčula, or I might have misunderstood that. She's a talented musician with a potential career as a concert pianist ahead of her, but she's currently working for a catering company in Split to earn money. The story is about how she meets and falls in love with a guy called Jakov, who is from an aristocratic Dalmatian family, From the synopsis it sounds like she is ultimately going to marry him and then, because he works as a captain, spent vast quantities of time being bullied by his evil mother and sister while he is away at sea.

First impressions after four episodes? Jakov is played by the extremely attractive Croatian actor Ivan Herceg, who I first saw in the film 'Pjevajte nešto ljubavno'. I was initially put off by the fact that the combined two seasons of 'Larin Izbor' consist of no fewer than 347 episodes(!!!) but actually, I could probably watch 347 hours of Ivan Herceg without too many problems ;)

The downside is that his character Jakov seems extremely wet. In the first episode he let his mother slap Lara in the face without intervening; he just stood there looking mildly embarrassed. In the second or third episode, a man is hitting a woman in the street and he doesn't want to intervene until Lara tells him to about five times. This could get annoying.

Language-wise, the characters speak a bit faster than on 'Budva' and don't enunciate as clearer, so it's definitely more difficult to follow. That said, I'm not having any problems understanding enough to follow the story, even if there are some words or sentences I have missed. The accents are obviously quite different and the way the characters speak remind me of the book I read last year: "Što je muškarac bez brkova". Firstly, there are some n's where there should be m's, eg. "jesan", "iman" etc. This doesn't hinder understanding and if I hadn't already seen it in print, I might just think I was mishearing. Secondly, some people speak in a way which seems more ikavian than ijekavian, so we have "vrime" instead of "vrijeme", "misto" instead of "mjesto" etc. I'm finding this a little harder to follow. The oddest thing I've noticed - which doesn't make sense to me even if people are using an ikavian pronunciation - is that they are using i's in words which don't have "ije" in the first place. So, for example, Jakov's mother keeps banging on about whether she is "sritna" or "nesritna" rather than "sretna" and "nesretna". There was one old lady in the second epsiode who said "ča" for "what", but the rest of what she was saying was fairly intelligble so I'm guessing she wasn't actually speaking proper čakavian.

It's all interesting at the moment anyway, and getting exposure to different accents and dialects is what I wanted :)

Today's words...

U kolovozu idem na odmor u Litvaniju. Mislim da to nije uobičajena zemlja za odmor, ali se ipak nadam da će biti lijepo tamo. Posjetila sam Litvaniju prvi put prije tri godine. Tada sam bila samo u glavnom gradu. Provela sam dva dana u Vilniusu i nakon toga sam putovala u Letoniju, Estoniju i Finsku. Ovog ljeta namjeravam provesti tjedan dana samo u Litvaniji. Letjet ću u Kaunas (to je drugi grad po veličini u Litvaniji) i nakon kratkog boravka tamo, putovat ću u Ignalinu. Ignalina je mali grad blizu granice s Bjelorusijom. Tamo ima puno šuma i jezera, a ne previše ljudi, pa mislim da je to dobro mjesto za odmor. Nakon Ignaline putujem u Vilnius, gdje ću provesti nekoliko dana prije nego što se vratim u Englesku. Bojim se da ću imati problema vezanih za jezik u Litvaniji jer ne govorim ni jednu riječ na litvanskom. Prije nekoliko tjedana mi je palo na pamet da bih trebala učiti barem nekoliko fraze na litvanskom, ali još nisam uspjela. Mislim da je taj jezik jako težak!
Last edited by Radioclare on Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Radioclare's temporary(?!) log

Postby Radioclare » Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:58 pm

Sunday

Today's words are about the nuclear power plant in the Lithuanian town of Ignalina. I feel like I must have improved a bit if I can write even 100 words about a more abstract theme like this.

Danas sam pročitala knjigu o Litvaniji. Htjela sam naučiti više o zemlji prije nego što odem tamo na odmor. Pročitala sam da je Ignalina slavni grad zbog toga što se tamo nalazi velika nuklearna elektrana. Izgradnja nuklearne elektrane počela je 1974. godine. Prvi dio je bio otvoren 1983. godine, ali je razgradnja počela već 1989. godine. To se dogodilo zato što je dizajn elektrane u Ignalini bio previše sličan elektrani u Černobilju, gdje se dogodila strašna nesreća 1986. godine. Europska Unija je rekla da Litvanija mora zatvoriti cijelu elektranu da bi ušla u EU. Litvanska vlada se složila da to učini, ali mnogo ljudi u Ignalini nisu bili zadovoljni tim dogovorom jer su radili u elektrani. Sada vlada hoće stimulirati turizam u tom području. Ignalina se nalazi pored nacionalnog parka pa bi to trebalo biti moguće.


The most useful thing I learned from today's corrections is the distinction between dogovoriti se and složiti se; both mean to agree, but složiti se seems to imply that you agreed to someone else's suggestion; ie. that someone proposed something and you said yes to it.
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Re: Radioclare's temporary(?!) log

Postby Radioclare » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:34 pm

Monday

Today's words are about the railway station in Crewe. Somehow I got completely enthused by this rather dry theme and managed to write 265 words!!

Danas sam morala posjetiti klijenta u Creweu. Crewe je grad u sjevernoj Engleskoj u blizini granice s Walesom. Crewe nije baš lijep grad, ali je slavan zato što se tamo nalazi ogroman željeznički kolodvor. Kolodvor je izgrađen 1837. godine i velika je raskrsnica. Svi vlakovi koji ide u Sjeverni Wales moraju putovati preko Crewea. Ovih dana to možda ne zvuči jako uzbudljivo jer stanovništvo sjevernog Walesa nije mnogobrojno. Međutim, u prošlom stoljeću to jest bilo vrlo važno jer je vlak preko Walesa bio najbrži način da stignu do Irske. Najkraći trajekt preko Irskog mora još uvijek je od Holyheada u sjevernom Walesu do Dun Laoghaira u Irskoj. Prije prvog svjetskog rata je Irska još uvijek bila dio Ujedinjenog Kraljevstva i stoga je bilo puno ljudi koji su trebali putovati od Engleske do Irske preko Walesa. Svi su prolazili kroz Crewe. Čak i nakon sticanja nezavisnosti bilo je mnogo putnika jer se mnogo Iraca iselilo. Primjerice, znam da su moji djed i baka putovali preko Crewea kada su prvi put došli u Englesku. Danas je Crewe još uvijek veliki prometni kolodvor. Svaki put kada stignem u Crewe, izgubim se i ne mogu naći izlaz zbog veličine zgrade. Danas je moj kolega imao još gori problem jer je zaspao u vlaku do Crewea i nije se probudio na vrijeme da siđe u Creweu. Konačno se probudio u Warringtonu. Taj grad se nalazi otprilike pedeset kilometara od Crewea na sjeveru. Nisam bila zadovoljna tim, jer smo se dogovorili da se nađemo u Crewe u pola devet. Morala sam ići sama kod klijentu zato što on je toliko zakasnio!


I've watched a few more episodes of "Larin Izbor" and I did have some interesting observations, but I may have forgotten them in the time I've spent trying to figure out which forum to post my log to ;)

Well, there is a lot of use of the word "ćaća" rather than "tata" to mean Dad. I'm sure whether this is a regional word or just a slang word. I have seen it before, but I can't remember where. It definitely wasn't used in 'Budva'.

Another word I've learned is "marenda" which my dictionary translates as "brunch". It seemed to be a big deal for a Sunday; the rich characters had a huge buffet meal, while one of the poor characters started beating up his wife because all she'd got for his "marenda" was stale toast.

Cultural observations... Everyone seems to excuse Lara for being incredibly naive on the basis that she comes from an island rather than the cultural metropolis of Split. I'm not totally convinced this is sufficient justification for quite how naive she is, but never mind. Split is a far nicer place than Budva and they could definitely get some better shots of it into the series ;)

There was a wonderful moment where I finally felt I was making progress, not just with learning Croatian but with learning about the culture. One of the characters, who is a spoiled rich girl, was having a driving lesson with the afore-mentioned man who beats his wife when he's not impressed with his marenda. The girl is actually so obnoxious that the guy is the likeable character in this scene; she's trying to act like she knows it all but she really can't drive. The instructor is shouting "Gas! Gas!" because he wants her to press the accelerator, but she keeps hitting the brakes instead. He's really frustrated and starting fiddling with the car's stereo system saying "I've got just the song for you!".

A split second before it started playing, I knew what it was going to be :) "Gas, gas" by Severina. I hasten to add that I'm not a fan of Severina, but this was just by coincidence one of the first songs I ever listened to in Croatian, mainly because Severina was the only Croatian singer I'd ever heard of. I did read somewhere once that this song actually caused some controversy when it was released in Croatia because people thought it sounded too much like turbo-folk, but I can't find a link now to substantiate that.

Talking about controversy, it turns out I got the "wrong" word for Lithuania in my paragraph about Lithuania the other day. I wrote about "Litvanija" but the proper Croatian word is "Litva". The Bosnian, Serbian, and Serbo-Croatian Wikipedias all use "Litvanija" as does Google Translate for Croatian, but it was pointed out to me in a correction at Lang-8 that the Croatian Wikipedia entry is for "Litva". It seems like a strange word to have two versions of, but never mind - I'm sure it was understandable what I meant :)
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Re: Radioclare's temporary(?!) log

Postby daegga » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:34 pm

Radioclare wrote: A split second before it started playing, I knew what it was going to be :) "Gas, gas" by Severina. I hasten to add that I'm not a fan of Severina, but this was just by coincidence one of the first songs I ever listened to in Croatian, mainly because Severina was the only Croatian singer I'd ever heard of. I did read somewhere once that this song actually caused some controversy when it was released in Croatia because people thought it sounded too much like turbo-folk, but I can't find a link now to substantiate that.


Croatian turbo-folk must sound quite different from Slovenian then. Does not remind me at all of turbo folk, more like your average Ottoman-style Balkan summer hit.
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Re: Radioclare's temporary(?!) log

Postby Expugnator » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:51 pm

Marenda is Romanic. We say 'merenda' in Portuguese and it is the meal students have at school. It can be a snack in the middle of the morning or in the afternoon or, in public schools, it is just regular lunch.
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Re: Radioclare's temporary(?!) log

Postby Radioclare » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:39 am

daegga wrote:Croatian turbo-folk must sound quite different from Slovenian then. Does not remind me at all of turbo folk, more like your average Ottoman-style Balkan summer hit.


I've never listened to any Slovenian turbo-folk. Have you got any recommendations?

I agree that to me it just sounds like a summery song, albeit with a distinct 'Balkan' feel to it.

I still can't find the original article I read, but the controversy is alluded to in the English-language Wikipedia entry for Severina.

Wikipedia wrote:After the first single from the album Gas, Gas was released, accusations followed once again that particularly due to the brass elements and mischievous, prankish lyrics, the song closely resembled turbo-folk, another type of music played in Serbia.


I also found this article on the Croatian Dnevnik from 2008 in which Severina responds to criticisms of the song as "turbo-folk":

Severina wrote:Čula sam da kažu da je to turbo folk, ali mi nitko taj pojam ne zna definirati. Spominju trube, no i naši orkestri imaju trube, u ovom slučaju radi se o amaterskom orkestru iz Lovrana. Mislim da su to predrasude, turbo folk je način života, a ja nemam takav način života, kaže Severina te dodaje da pjesmu treba gledati u kontekstu cijelog albuma.


Rough translation wrote:"I've heard people say that it's turbo-folk, but no one can define that term for me. They mention trumpets, but our orchestras have trumpets too and it this instance it was an amateur orchestra from Lovran. I think those are prejudices, turbo-folk is a way of life and I don't have that sort of life" says Severina, adding that the song ought to be looked at in the context of the whole album.


I guess the point is that it hasn't historically been politically correct to like turbo-folk in Croatia because of the genre's associations with 90's Serbia and some people are petty enough to jump on anything that might sound remotely like it and accuse someone of playing "Serbian" music.
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Re: Radioclare's temporary(?!) log

Postby Radioclare » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:39 am

Expugnator wrote:Marenda is Romanic. We say 'merenda' in Portuguese and it is the meal students have at school. It can be a snack in the middle of the morning or in the afternoon or, in public schools, it is just regular lunch.


That's really interesting - I had no idea :)
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Re: Radioclare's temporary(?!) log

Postby daegga » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:19 pm

Slovenian turbo folk is basically Oberkrainer or other polka based music with a hard beat and weird electronic sound effects incorporating electronic pop trends of the late 90s. Lyrics are often on the level of ballerman and apres-ski music, which are actually quite similar to Slovenian turbo folk as they have the same roots. There is a clear party focus.
I think ATOMIK HARMONIK coined the term in Slovenia, so here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-Uburqc-PQ
Some of the videos are quite funny to watch.
Here for example Boštjan Konečnik: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZa0gL_KadU

Some Croatian music is clearly heading in a similar direction, albeit not as extreme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFGxctUPvLg (klapa)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_OhgJr02Fw (tamburice)

I had a quick listen to both Serbian traditional folk music and Serbian turbo folk, and I have a hard time seeing any connection between them. Turkish popular music with Serbian instruments instead of proper music with Serbian instruments maybe?
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Re: Radioclare's temporary(?!) log

Postby Radioclare » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:26 pm

Thank you Daegga, that's really interesting :) Slovenian music is a whole new world just waiting to be explored!

I see what you mean and there seems to be quite a difference between Slovenian turbo-folk and how I think Serbian turbo-folk sounds. The Slovenian music seems to have more "folk" in it :) Although I must confess that I haven't listened to a lot of Serbian turbo-folk. I experimented with listening to some Ceca songs on Youtube a while ago - more out of morbid curiosity than anything else - but, her late husband's politics aside, it just isn't the sort of music I would listen to in English, so I don't enjoy listening to it in Serbian either.

At the moment I am enjoying music by the Croatian band Brkovi, who describe their style as "turbofolk-punkrock". Not sure what that really means, but the result is some really catchy music like this and this :)
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Re: Radioclare's temporary(?!) log

Postby Radioclare » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:29 pm

Yesterday's words were about ordering Euros for my holiday in Lithuania. I made more mistakes in this text than I have for ages :( Part of the problem was that I wasn't clear on what gender Euro should have. I also didn't know that Euro needs to be written with a small e in Croatian.

U subotu sam kupila eure zbog svog predstojećeg putovanja u Litvu. Kupila sam novac preko interneta i pošta ga je trebala dostaviti danas. Kod nas nema mnogo mjenjačnica pa je najlakše dobiti devize od pošte. Bila sam, dakle, iznenađena kada sam jutros dobila poruku od pošte u kojoj je pisalo da će novac stići tek sutra. Očigledno su brojni ljudi naručili eure preko vikenda zato što je tečaj bio toliko dobar, pa pošta nema dovoljno gotovine za sve nas. Srećom, to nije veliki problem za mene jer imam još deset dana prije nego što odem u Litvu. Zbog dobrog tečaja sam kupila eure koja mi trebaju i za odmor u Sloveniji u rujnu, ali nisam imala dovoljno novca da kupim i kune za boravak u Hrvatskoj.


One interesting correction was that I had written "kurs" for "exchange rate". I'm sure I learned that word from somewhere, but I'm not sure where. It was corrected in my text to "tečaj". Google Translate suggests that "tečaj" might be the Croatian word and that "kurs" is acceptable in Serbian and Bosnian, but not completely sure.
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