Languid Language Learning

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
Brun Ugle
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2273
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:48 pm
Location: Steinkjer, Norway
Languages: English (N), Norwegian (~C1/C2), Spanish (B1/B2), German (A2/B1?), Japanese (very rusty)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11484
x 5821
Contact:

Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Brun Ugle » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:26 am

Elenia wrote:
Brun Ugle wrote:What materials are you using to learn to be a better conversationalist? I could use some help in that area too.


Nothing in particular, at least not yet, but here is the TED talk. It was interesting, and stuff I'm learning. It's more about being a good listener, which I don't know that you need? But if I find anything else, I'll share it with you :)

(I like talking to you, for what it's worth!)

I like talking to you too. It really depends on the other person. If we have common interests or the other person is good at keeping the conversation going, then it’s no problem. But some people I struggle to talk too.
0 x

garyb
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1572
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:35 pm
Location: Scotland
Languages: Native: English
Advanced: Italian, French
Intermediate: Spanish
Beginner: German, Japanese
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1855
x 5992
Contact:

Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby garyb » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:49 am

I know the feeling - I can converse with some people for hours but with others I struggle or can't get past generic small-talk. One thing that I've found important is to understand that it's not always my fault and some people just aren't open to a proper conversation at a given moment. Of course that's not an excuse to never take responsibility and always blame the other party, but often it's easy enough to recognise when it's the case once you get past the stage of always blaming yourself. If they're avoiding eye contact and giving single-word answers even to more open questions, it's usually a sign that you're wasting your time.

Another tip that comes up often is to look for "hooks": little details in the person's answers to basic questions that you can use to move onto deeper subjects. The answer to "where are you from?" or "how long have you been living here?" might give you some details to go into further questions about why they chose to come here, the difference between life in their old and new location, etc.

Being a good listener is important although it's often used as a platitude towards shy people, the implication being "you're not very good at talking but at least you can listen" which can feel quite insulting. Still, being in a conversation with someone who talks a lot but doesn't listen much can be painful.
4 x

User avatar
Elenia
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:22 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), Swedish (C1), French (Massively Atrophied) German (lowly beginner, somehow learnt to read)


Finnish?!
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=708
x 3280
Contact:

Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Elenia » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:13 pm

garyb wrote:Being a good listener is important although it's often used as a platitude towards shy people, the implication being "you're not very good at talking but at least you can listen" which can feel quite insulting. Still, being in a conversation with someone who talks a lot but doesn't listen much can be painful.


I'm good at listening, but bad at knowing when to keep my mouth shut, which probably makes me seems at times self-centered. It's something I'm working on.

---

So, 'thanks' to Ani I am now somehow watching 'Good Witch'. In terms of silliness... it is less silly than 'Lara's Choice', the Croatian drama that Radioclare was watching a couple of years ago. Yeah, not really saying much! Silly or not, I am actually watching it, with (bad) German dubbing and subtitles. Annoyingly, the subtitles don't match the audio, but so it goes. I think something is sinking in, and I'm missing surprisingly little, so that's a good thing. A note on the show: mid 19th century gender roles and astonishingly lax hiring practice. So far, two women have come to town and got jobs* without a background check or even an interview. One of them landed a job in the police station because the chief had a one-day-old crush on her, the other in a doctor's office. Jobs known for their general lack of a need for security...

Due to all of this Good Witching, and having to actually go out and do things yesterday and today, I haven't gotten much Swedish reading done. So I am, unfortunately, still on the first chapter of MI. But I'm getting close to the end!

Otherwise, not much to report...

*as secretaries...
2 x

User avatar
Elenia
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:22 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), Swedish (C1), French (Massively Atrophied) German (lowly beginner, somehow learnt to read)


Finnish?!
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=708
x 3280
Contact:

Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Elenia » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:05 pm

I don't think I'll be getting in my (now) normal two episodes* of 'Good Witch' today. I had a slow morning, when out in the afternoon and then came home and am watching a documentary about agriculture on SVTPlay. Lots of new vocabulary to be had there, and I'm adding almost all of it to my excel sheet which is now growing in variety. The original idea was for it to be a sort of homemade lexicon of words I would like to use, especially in writing, but it has now become a place where I put words that I am actually interested in knowing, for the sake of it.

While out, I found a Walter Moers book for 20SEK. I, naturally, had to buy it, and I started reading it as I walked away from the shop. It is very dense, so I'm only about five pages in, but I'm enjoying it so far. I had started Kai Meyer's Frostfeuer a few days ago and actually found the content to be harder than the Moers book, which is a bit of a surprise as, at a glance, it seems a much lighter, easier read. Maybe this is what happens when you cut your teeth on Die unendliche Geschichte?

I'm hoping to speak some German tonight when I skype my friend. If she permits, I will even read some of my new book to her. (If I remember correctly, however, she is not a Moers fan. She thinks he is weird.)

*This is about as close as I get to binge-watching a series. I'm not made for it!
2 x

User avatar
Elenia
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:22 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), Swedish (C1), French (Massively Atrophied) German (lowly beginner, somehow learnt to read)


Finnish?!
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=708
x 3280
Contact:

Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Elenia » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:52 pm

Not much to comment on, but I bought Mannen som förväxlade sin hustru med en hatt today at the Red Cross. I also bought the 'flickböcker' and Emil och Detektiverna. I like having old-fashioned children's books, especially those series that follow 'x-girl'. I know, of course, that they're more 'Blyton' in style than they are 'Alcott', but I liked Enid Blyton, too :D I wonder if there exists some Swedish equivalent to the Little Women books?

In other news, Fredrik Lindström has a series on Swedish dialects on SVTPlay. What better way to while away the time before På Spåret starts than that?

Coming back to add that I also watched a couple of episodes of a documentary series on SVTPlay about 'nature returning' to Europe. This is particularly interesting to me, as we spent a few days of our honeymoon on Knepp farm in Sussex, and bought the book Wilding, written by one of the owners of the land. The series turned out to actually be in Norwegian, with Swedish subtitles. It was good to hear Norwegian, and the Norwegians interviewed on the show were still easier to understand than the Danes to the power of a thousand.

Då och då tänker jag att jag borde skriva åtminstone en del av min logg på svenska, men blir alldeles för blyg. Det ska jag ändra på. Jag tänker inte skriva hela loggen på svenska, inte heller skriva någonting på svenska vid varje inlägg, men nu har jag börjat med det. Det är inte så läskist som jag trodde det skulle vara!

^completely uncorrected. Had to ask Hubby for help with logg and inlägg- which feels silly but Eh. (I could have guessed logg, but wanted to get it right first time. I'm blaming not remembering 'inlägg' on the glass of wine I had with dinner).
3 x

User avatar
Elenia
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:22 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), Swedish (C1), French (Massively Atrophied) German (lowly beginner, somehow learnt to read)


Finnish?!
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=708
x 3280
Contact:

Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Elenia » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:56 pm

Morgana wrote:I think I listened to one of these a couple weeks back! Or, at least, I recognized the voice as the judge guy from På Spåret. I did not understand much but I never tune into podcasts expecting I will.


Oh, the program I have in mind is a TV series (with subtitles). I would be interested in the podcast as well, though :D

Morgana wrote:Toppen! Jag förstod nästan allt. Jag skriver aldrig på svenska, och jag ska troligen aldrig göra det, men jag ser fram emot att läsa ditt skrivande. (I've never written anything original in Swedish before so I hope that wasn't terrible :lol: )


Det verker perkeft! Of course, we'll wait to see what the professionals have to say on both counts, men jag är stolt över oss!

ETA the actual log post...

Last night, I finally tried out the 'grammar challenges' on Clozemaster for German. I think it was a pretty good exercise. The actual cloze sentences were of little help to me as what I need most is explicit explanation rather than drilling, but I used the sentences as a jumping off point to figure out why the sentences were the way they were. Previously, all my attempts at grammar study have been prescriptive- this case does this thing in that situation. That kind of information simply doesn't stay in my head the way I want it to. This approach is more like doing detective work. I was working on articles, one of my huge problem areas*, and so I had to first track down the case of the article and noun, then understand why it was being used in that particular sentence. It wasn't very extensive, as I only got the nominative and the genitive, but I do think I have a slightly better understanding now than I did when I started out.

I also finished the first chapter of MI yesterday, finally. I'm sure it will pick up as it gets out of trying to teach its readers about university and how to learn a language. Nonetheless, I'm glad of a break, and I'm looking forward to starting Språkporten.

*Okay, okay. With German, all the areas are my huge problem areas.
2 x

User avatar
Elenia
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:22 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), Swedish (C1), French (Massively Atrophied) German (lowly beginner, somehow learnt to read)


Finnish?!
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=708
x 3280
Contact:

Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Elenia » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:53 pm

Morgana wrote:
Elenia wrote:
Morgana wrote:I think I listened to one of these a couple weeks back! Or, at least, I recognized the voice as the judge guy from På Spåret. I did not understand much but I never tune into podcasts expecting I will.


Oh, the program I have in mind is a TV series (with subtitles). I would be interested in the podcast as well, though :D
Woops! I totally misread your original post haha. But anyway, here's the radio thing:
https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.a ... el=6981756

Looks like it was just a one-off episode for the radio. Must be part of their summer of celebrities or whatever doing shows.


Thank you for the link! It's actually a series, although I'm seeing only four episodes: https://sverigesradio.se/sida/avsnitt/?programid=5216

I've listened to the first two, and it's interesting.

Today, I decided to try getting in some more German grammar using Scriptorium. Ha! Ha! Ha! From the book title and the words 'Erster Teil: Dazelots Vermächtnis' I almost an A5 page worth of notes. I'm planning on continuing, but clearly my grammar understanding leaves MUCH to be desired. I don't know how to study grammar in a way that leads to long-term internalisation, so I'm hoping that simply rushing up against the same things again and again and trying to puzzle out why such is so will be enough. Well, we'll see how it goes.

In Swedish: I read the first two texts from Språkporten yesterday. I'm not quite sure what I want to do with the rest of my evening, I'm half torn between reading more from one of the textbooks, reading more from a normal book or diving into my word experiment. Maybe I'll manage a bit of all three?

Finally, Mista mentioned a Faroese cookery show on her log. It's geoblocked on NRK and potentially on DRTV (or maybe they just aren't sending it anymore), and it was broadcast too long ago in Sweden to still be on SVTPlay... but I managed to find the original broadcast in Faroese. Of course, I will understand next to nothing, but I want to give it a good, long shot anyway! For the interested, it's here. So, if anyone's interested in Faroese... ETA if you're squeamish, don't watch!
2 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Cavesa » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:49 pm

Elenia wrote:I'm planning on continuing, but clearly my grammar understanding leaves MUCH to be desired. I don't know how to study grammar in a way that leads to long-term internalisation, so I'm hoping that simply rushing up against the same things again and again and trying to puzzle out why such is so will be enough. Well, we'll see how it goes.


Welcome to my world. It looks like throwing tons of stuff and methods and time and efforts on the problem is the only way to make sure something will finally work :-D

And if you want to make your one Clozemaster like cards, try Memcode :-)
2 x

StringerBell
Brown Belt
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:30 am
Languages: English (n)
Italian
x 3289

Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby StringerBell » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:35 pm

Elenia wrote:I used the sentences as a jumping off point to figure out why the sentences were the way they were. Previously, all my attempts at grammar study have been prescriptive- this case does this thing in that situation. That kind of information simply doesn't stay in my head the way I want it to. This approach is more like doing detective work. I was working on articles, one of my huge problem areas*, and so I had to first track down the case of the article and noun, then understand why it was being used in that particular sentence. It wasn't very extensive, as I only got the nominative and the genitive, but I do think I have a slightly better understanding now than I did when I started out.


I fully support this approach ;)

Reverse-engineering grammar seems to be what's working for me. Yes, it is slow going, but I think doing it like this has the potential for it to be more meaningful. Have you so far only used this approach with sentences in CZM? Do you have any plans to use this with other sources?

I just tried CZM for the first time last night. I used the free version to see what it was about. It was fast moving and the competition element makes it kind of fun, but ultimately I don't think it's my cup of tea... maybe I'm doing it wrong??? Do you find CZM helpful (or enjoyable) or are you just kind of doing it to do it?
2 x
Season 4 Lucifer Italian transcripts I created: https://learnanylanguage.fandom.com/wik ... ranscripts

User avatar
Elenia
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:22 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), Swedish (C1), French (Massively Atrophied) German (lowly beginner, somehow learnt to read)


Finnish?!
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=708
x 3280
Contact:

Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Elenia » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:05 pm

Cavesa wrote:Welcome to my world. It looks like throwing tons of stuff and methods and time and efforts on the problem is the only way to make sure something will finally work :-D

And if you want to make your one Clozemaster like cards, try Memcode :-)


Truly, I should take a page from your book and hit the grammar workbooks but I can't bring myself to do it. My biggest problem, according to my friend, is word order but what trips me up the most is not knowing a thing about cases. I'll try to keep Memcode in mind, but I'm pretty bad about actually making flashcards. I'm too lazy, so I make like fifteen and then give up on the deck forever more! :lol:

I think the main difficulty for me with German is that they keep on reusing articles! Would it hurt to have a few more, just to keep things clear?!

StringerBell wrote:I fully support this approach ;)

Reverse-engineering grammar seems to be what's working for me. Yes, it is slow going, but I think doing it like this has the potential for it to be more meaningful. Have you so far only used this approach with sentences in CZM? Do you have any plans to use this with other sources?

I just tried CZM for the first time last night. I used the free version to see what it was about. It was fast moving and the competition element makes it kind of fun, but ultimately I don't think it's my cup of tea... maybe I'm doing it wrong??? Do you find CZM helpful (or enjoyable) or are you just kind of doing it to do it?


I tried it out with my 'Scrivener' attempt. It leads to learning a lot of things I would not otherwise think of looking up (such as the difference between 'das Teil' and 'der Teil'. On my own, I wouldn't have even noticed that they were two separate words!) I'm hoping this will work out for me as I've never really been able to get along with German courses. Clozemaster is the only thing I can reliably stomach and keep on with.

I enjoy it, and find it helpful. Using Clozemaster does give me a better feel for the language, and my Geman friend remarked upon improvements I had made after a German dry spell where the Clozemaster was the only contact I had with the language. Were you playing using a free account or without signing in? If I recall correctly, you don't get to chose what words you play when not signed in. But, like you said, it might just not be your cup of tea.
2 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests