Cavesa wrote:But still, I think the effect of already knowing a language with cases before trying German is often being overrated. The main "advantage" over the most usual learner (an English monolingual complaining on the Duolingo forums for example) is skipping the "but why do they have the stupid cases anyways, why can't it be simple like English?!" and "Do I have to learn all this? Do the natives really use it in real life?" phase
You can add Tumblr to that list. That made me laugh too because it was so relatable. Of courses natives use cases in real life. It wouldn't be Russian or Czech without them, just some bastardized thing. Though, who knows how they will morph in the future...
More fun with German cases! I have changed my book to Darm mit Charme and I'm finding it to be easier going. I got two sentences from the actual book done!
Cavesa wrote:But still, I think the effect of already knowing a language with cases before trying German is often being overrated. The main "advantage" over the most usual learner (an English monolingual complaining on the Duolingo forums for example) is skipping the "but why do they have the stupid cases anyways, why can't it be simple like English?!" and "Do I have to learn all this? Do the natives really use it in real life?" phase
Well, actually, I have 'Why can't it be simple like Swedish?" but otherwise, yes, this is exactly how I feel! To be honest, after Swedish, all other languages seem like they're too complex, and could stand to cut down their grammar by half, or more! On that note, someone today told me my Swedish grammar is really good and that I never make mistakes someone who doesn't hear me speak all that often, clearly, but it's nice to know I give a good impression!
tiia wrote:The thing with the articles reminds me of this German comedy. So if it's just too much, follow the advice at the end
Or maybe not.
Tiia, that was hilarious, thank you! I understood three words only* but the sentiment was clear, and matches my own, perfectly!
*Those three words were 'der', 'die' and 'Gluhwein'
Brun Ugle wrote:I found the Finnish cases much easier than the German ones as a beginner. And it was because there was no overlap. You always knew which case it was. The concept of cases doesn’t bother me at all. It was the having to figure out what the case and gender was each time. Interestingly, I also got annoyed with German for its reusing of verb forms. I kept wishing it could be more like Spanish with a different verb form for every occasion so I could easily see what’s what. Of course, English does the same thing as German, so it seems funny that it would bother me, but it did at first.
Kissing verb forms goodbye was something I have only been too happy to do with French, so I don't foresee that being a problem for me! I keep on reminding myself that I'm going to have to go through all sorts of painful verbial situations with Portuguese.
gsbod wrote:I remember the articles in German being a bit of a headache too - there was just a bit too much information to parse in one go for a system that was completely new to me, since it involved both the gender and the case. It started to settle down once I was more familiar with which noun had which gender and which situation requires which case - because in each situation as long as I knew one of those things I was able to figure out the other and therefore my brain had less work to do. In comparison, the verbs were not too much trouble - certainly less troublesome than a Romance language.
Although having learned Japanese, articles, pronouns and conjugating for the person of the verb all seem pretty superfluous to me.
It dawned on mme this past episode of 'Fun with Cases' that I'm probably going to need to use brute force to get all of that information in my head. It's amazing: the alternative is such a bother that I'm actually looking forward to writing and rewriting tables full of adjectives.
Very specifically does NOT pick up Japanese to make German feel easier.
eido wrote:
Cavesa wrote:But still, I think the effect of already knowing a language with cases before trying German is often being overrated. The main "advantage" over the most usual learner (an English monolingual complaining on the Duolingo forums for example) is skipping the "but why do they have the stupid cases anyways, why can't it be simple like English?!" and "Do I have to learn all this? Do the natives really use it in real life?" phase
You can add Tumblr to that list. That made me laugh too because it was so relatable. Of courses natives use cases in real life. It wouldn't be Russian or Czech without them, just some bastardized thing. Though, who knows how they will morph in the future...
Of course, to all of us wise and seasoned second-language acquisition experts, the idea of English as 'simple' is laughable seriously, eido, I've seen you 'round the Nordic logs. Pick up Swedish, it's soooooo easy. No grammar for miles around!
---
So, as I said above, someone told me that my Swedish grammar is basically flawless, which is certainly not the case but is nonetheless a nice confidence boost. I'm still catching up on PM's log, and I'm at about the stage when everyone was talking about the difference between, and the journey from' B2 to C1. I've said it over and over again, but I feel my biggest problem is vocabulary. I have a pretty good vocabulary in Swedish. I can talk about most things without too much trouble, I rarely need to ask for help with words (and when I do it often turns out to be something stupid like, I forgot the word ignorera*). BUT I don't have the precision I'd like, and I'm hoping that's something that will change during the course. I know it's also something that I'll need to work on a lot on my own, but already I've seen that two of the textbooks that I've looked properly through have at least some focus on increasing and deepening vocabulary. Otherwise, I have a few, persistent grammar niggles that I want sorted out, and I've had little luck trying to sort them out on my own.
Yesterday I went for an archery lesson. We were a mixed group with, I think at least fifty-percent non-Swedish speakers. I was part of the small section for complete beginners, and one of maybe two people who spoke Swedish. The person leading the group started speaking, stopped, looked at me and said 'do you speak Swedish?' I said, of course, that I do, and he primed to continue when everyone else jumped in to explain that they needed English instructions. Later on, someone else realised he was talking to me in Swedish, and started to switch. I told him that Swedish was fine, to which he replied 'oh, you're Swedish, sorry!' He didn't seem that interested in my trying to explain that no, I am English, which I found funny. On Tuesday, I met with a couple of Americans who want to volunteer in the shop. They were very shocked to discover that I, too, am a native English speaker. We carried on speaking Swedish anyway because I know they're meant to be practising. I think I've picked up enough skånska inflexions to camouflage my anglophonics.
Elenia wrote:Of course, to all of us wise and seasoned second-language acquisition experts, the idea of English as 'simple' is laughable seriously, eido, I've seen you 'round the Nordic logs. Pick up Swedish, it's soooooo easy. No grammar for miles around!
From what I remember from my brief flirtations with Swedish, there's two noun genders, right? And unlike Spanish it's not as mostly straightforward to pair the articles with them. So it's not that easy, at least for me. I wouldn't know what textbook to use either, since everything I've seen is in Swedish and that hasn't worked out well for me in Icelandic - the courses being in the target language, that is. If you have any ideas, I'd be willing to give it a shot. In order the Nordic languages I wanted to learn were Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish, Faroese, and Danish. And sorry for being a lurker and not doing anything It's my job, though.
Elenia wrote:Of course, to all of us wise and seasoned second-language acquisition experts, the idea of English as 'simple' is laughable seriously, eido, I've seen you 'round the Nordic logs. Pick up Swedish, it's soooooo easy. No grammar for miles around!
From what I remember from my brief flirtations with Swedish, there's two noun genders, right? And unlike Spanish it's not as mostly straightforward to pair the articles with them. So it's not that easy, at least for me. I wouldn't know what textbook to use either, since everything I've seen is in Swedish and that hasn't worked out well for me in Icelandic - the courses being in the target language, that is. If you have any ideas, I'd be willing to give it a shot. In order the Nordic languages I wanted to learn were Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish, Faroese, and Danish. And sorry for being a lurker and not doing anything It's my job, though.
There are two noun genders, correct, but I (personally) find them easy to learn because the definite article is attached to the end of the noun. So 'ett barn' becomes 'barnet' while 'en man' becomes 'mannen'. This makes it easier to learn the genders than when the article is detached. I doubt it's as easy to guess gender as it is in Spanish (where one is hardly guessing at all, right?), but I found it much easier than French. Maybe also because I enjoy Swedish more? As for textbooks, hmm... I think part of the issue is that, unlike the FIGS, Swedish is mostly taught in Sweden*, where it's assumed the learner will have a teacher guiding them. I made good use of FSI, though. Teach Yourself, Colloquial and Berlitz all offer courses, but I'm not sure how good they are. I can have a look if you want.
And hey, I'm lurking on all the Korean logs. Still don't know how to say anything more than 'bibimbap', though. It's- erm. Research?
Mina svenska lektioner började på måndag. Jag har inte formulerat en åsikt om dem än. Takten är ganska högt men innehållet är inte direkt svårt. Det har gjort att jag tänker mer om språket nu då. Det storsta problemet för mig just nu är att jag måste läser nyheter. Jag tror att jag har sagt förut att jag hatar att läser tidningar eller kollar på nyhetsprogram. Men nu måste jag då vi måste muntligt presentera en nyhet som vi har läst vid varje lektion.
I have also started reading a very silly book that I bought last year and then forgot about. I have been longing for some lättläst, härlig kärleksroman for a while but didn't actually want to spend any money on one. Then I rediscovered How to fall in love with a man who lives in a bush. It's pretty easy, very silly, and easy to read. I keep on forgetting to take it with me on my commutes.
German? GERMAN? German, where are you?!
There are a couple of Germans in my class. They sat behind me today, and I eavesdropped on them, but only a little bit because I didn't want to be rude. I barely understood what they were saying anyway, so it's okay? That's how that works, right...? Otherwise, basically nothing doing.
We ate dinner at my mother-in-law's place today, and my husband's grandfather asked me if I am still studying Finnish. It's not that I've forgotten about Finnish, rather that I haven't tried to learn any Finnish in quite some time. And I'm still very tempted by Romanian. So far, I'm holding up against pressure from Rick and Janice to pick up Setswana and Mandarin.
I don't see the problem here. You simply tell the husband that not speaking in Swedish with your significant other gives you headaches. (he will get the hint I'm sure) So that is Swedish practice sorted. Then you simply divide your time up like Expugnator and do French, Mandarin, Setswana and Finnish. Oh yeah, and German.
rdearman wrote:I don't see the problem here. You simply tell the husband that not speaking in Swedish with your significant other gives you headaches. (he will get the hint I'm sure) So that is Swedish practice sorted. Then you simply divide your time up like Expugnator and do French, Mandarin, Setswana and Finnish. Oh yeah, and German.
I have told him. He's got it. When I'm writing amazing, thought-provoking and best-selling literature in Swedish I will make sure to credit you. It's still a Strong Nope on Mandarin, though.
rdearman wrote:I don't see the problem here. You simply tell the husband that not speaking in Swedish with your significant other gives you headaches. (he will get the hint I'm sure) So that is Swedish practice sorted. Then you simply divide your time up like Expugnator and do French, Mandarin, Setswana and Finnish. Oh yeah, and German.
I have told him. He's got it. When I'm writing amazing, thought-provoking and best-selling literature in Swedish I will make sure to credit you. It's still a Strong Nope on Mandarin, though.
Not in for Setswana right now, it's just not a strong nope. Maybe sometime in the future. Of course, as I said, if you guys are willing to teach me, without me having to put in any effort, then I'm in
but otherwise, yes, this is exactly how I feel! To be honest, after Swedish, all other languages seem like they're too complex, and could stand to cut down their grammar by half, or more! On that note, someone today told me my Swedish grammar is really good and that I never make mistakes 
It's my job, though.
