Languid Language Learning

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:59 am

garyb wrote:I have an Italian friend in Stockholm whom I went to see a few years ago and I heard similar things about the rent situation. Near-impossible to find a place without some kind of compromise, in her case a strange and very strict live-in landlady.

She had a good job there as an architect, didn't speak Swedish, and would have liked to learn the language but didn't have much time or opportunity because the job was demanding, English was the lingua franca in the office, everyone in her social circle spoke Italian and/or English, and people in shops, restaurants etc. spoke English. I believe she's learnt a bit of the language now thanks to having a Swedish boyfriend, but it seems like a case where even if you'd like to learn it all the circumstances are against you. I've no doubt that if you have a strong enough desire to learn it then you will, but for most foreigners living there it's a nice-to-have rather than a necessity and that's not enough motivation. Quite sad, but true.


Okay, so that adds to the picture and detracts somewhat from my earlier unfounded conclusions. I agree, a bit sad. Thanks for sharing garyb.
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jeff_lindqvist
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Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:44 pm

Brun Ugle wrote:Since you’re now actually in Sweden, I would think you could get audiobooks at the library. I assume they are free to borrow like they are here, so that should be a lot cheaper than StoryTel. Of course, there might not be quite the range of choice available.


Good suggestion! Elenia, if you have a library card at one of the public libraries (e.g. Malmö stadsbibliotek), there is a fairly new phone application you can use. It's called Biblio (interface in Swedish, English, Finnish and Arabic)) and enables you to browse "your" library's (e) audiobook collection, pick a title or two (usually there's a limit - typically two titles per 7 day-period) and then listen in online or offline mode. The "real" catalogue and the app are synchronized, so if you browse the web catalogue and borrow a title there, it will also appear in the app. Sometimes I've run into a few problems, but uninstalling Biblio and then reinstalling it has worked fine. The audiobook is still in my account when I log in (and disappears automatically after 28 days).

Hope this helps!
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Elenia
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Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Elenia » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:57 pm

jeff_lindqvist wrote:
Brun Ugle wrote:Since you’re now actually in Sweden, I would think you could get audiobooks at the library. I assume they are free to borrow like they are here, so that should be a lot cheaper than StoryTel. Of course, there might not be quite the range of choice available.


Good suggestion! Elenia, if you have a library card at one of the public libraries (e.g. Malmö stadsbibliotek), there is a fairly new phone application you can use. It's called Biblio (interface in Swedish, English, Finnish and Arabic)) and enables you to browse "your" library's (e) audiobook collection, pick a title or two (usually there's a limit - typically two titles per 7 day-period) and then listen in online or offline mode. The "real" catalogue and the app are synchronized, so if you browse the web catalogue and borrow a title there, it will also appear in the app. Sometimes I've run into a few problems, but uninstalling Biblio and then reinstalling it has worked fine. The audiobook is still in my account when I log in (and disappears automatically after 28 days).

Hope this helps!


Good point, Brun, and thank for the info, Jeff! I don't have a library card, but should look into getting one. Is a personnummer necessary? Because I don't have one (or rather, I have a tillfällig personnummer från universitet och ett samordningsnummer. För många nummer som gör nästan ingenting för mig).

PeterMollenburg wrote:

garyb wrote:


With regards to rent - yeah, depending on where you live it can be basically impossible. My friend told me that some students who get accepted to Stockholm University have to turn their place down because they can't find anywhere to live. It was easier for her brother to buy an appartment in Stockholm than to find a place to rent while he studied. Here in the South it's not quite as ridiculous, but still very difficult to get a place to rent. Lots of people have to sublet while waiting to get their own place. You can be on a waiting list for four years (and I've spoken to one person who'd been on a waiting list for seven years with no success). It does also depend on your income, I'm sure. If you're in a lower income bracket, you simply won't have as many options. But of course, this likely changes the further you get away from big cities/university towns. That's the only thing I have any real experience with.

With regards to language: I would say it depends on the branch you want to enter, and how. If you're good in your field, or at least good in a field that the country needs, you might not need Swedish skills. The same if you're entering an international company, or a company with a global focus (although certain roles will likely still require Swedish). On the other end of the scale, you can work a service job in a restaurant with just English (although I've only come across this once, in an American themed restaurant, so probably not that common). I'd argue against 'all the circumstances being against' someone willing to learn Swedish. Sweden has the excellent SFI program for people coming to the country, and it goes all the way up to the C levels, I believe - someone who has completed SFI is certified for university studies in Swedish. (I believe I haven't mixed my facts up!) SFI is free to anyone with a personnummer - anyone registered as living in Sweden. Time can be an issue, true - but then of course, we all know it's possible to learn a language with limited time ;) I have met quite a few English people who have moved here for work, who are doing their best to learn the language and who even talk to their children in Swedish when they can!

Also important here in Malmö is the demographic. Arabic is a major language here, and can for many jobs be a 'desirable' and sometimes even an 'essential'. It's not a 'must' as often as English is, but it is a language that would give a job application a boost. As I've said elsewhere, I don't think my native level English will help me that much in getting a job - or, it won't help me that much in getting the job I want. Most people speak English that is much better than my Swedish, and I have seen very few jobs advertised where Swedish isn't a requirement. Without being a specialist at anything in particular, I'd have a tough time getting a job here on English alone. (Hell, I'm having a tough time getting a job with Swedish and French thrown in, too... maybe it's just me?)

---

Got obsessed with knitting a hat. Unfortunately, I got confused about the instructions and so made it to about the same size as the instructions for a 'baby' specified. I'll send it to my ex-roommate. She has no hair, so it might fit her.

Otherwise, I cleared all my reviews for Clozemaster Swe-Eng yesterday, and 'played' fifty new words today. I was at school yesterday, and work today, so I couldn't really do more. I learnt a new word today. Actually, I learnt two but I've already forgot one.

Tegelsten - brick. I feel like I already knew this, but I couldn't remember it. I learn a new word at least once a week at work, usually more often. One of the volunteers in particular is great at teaching me new words and never gets tired of me asking 'hur säger man det på svenska?' I also have a friend like that. She has recently taught me lots of different fish names which I haven't even tried to remember: if I wouldn't know it in English, I probably don't need it in Swedish!

EDIT: That should be 'tillfälligt'. Agreement is definitely a thing I need to work more on.
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jeff_lindqvist
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Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:32 pm

Elenia wrote:I don't have a library card, but should look into getting one. Is a personnummer necessary? Because I don't have one (or rather, I have a tillfällig personnummer från universitet och ett samordningsnummer.


Anything that could confirm that you are you (ID, passport, driver's license...) should work fine.
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Elenia
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Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Elenia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:37 pm

Ny stick projekt! Det blir en sjal till min mormor.

In relevant news:

I visited my friend on Sunday and we started writing a very silly story about space dragons in Swedish. We decided on characters and took turns having them tell their story. I did all the writing. What this taught me: my grammar isn't as horrible as it feels! Whether or not I write naturally is another question (feels like a big NOT quite often), but she didn't have to correct me on word order most of the time. I also got a 'hennes' 'sin' thing right on instinct! This rule has been explained to me so many times, and I have never gotten it. I still don't get it, but I used them correctly in a sentence where both where needed (to refer to the same person) so at least the distinction is trickling its way through somehow.

Otherwise, things have been as usual. Trying to keep my clozemaster review list cleared - although not very religiously, and only for Swe-Eng. Speaking Swedish at work and out. I should probably pick up my book(s) in a bit, too.
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Elenia
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Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Elenia » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:49 pm

Compltely obsessed with my knitting project, which continues to grow. It's a triangular shawl that increases by four stitches every other round and I realise that the process of knitting it is quite a lot like the process of learning a language. At the first things go quickly and you see an incredible amount of progress: five stitches become nine become become thirteen in what feels like the blink of an eye. But then you reach the intermediate plateau: to get from 155 stitches to 159 takes longer, it's harder to see the progress and your wrists really start to complain...*

Today has been a lazy-ish day. I woke up with a headache, which I haven't quite been able to shift. Other than knitting, I've played seventy new words on Clozemaster for Swedish, while waiting for reviews that have yet to show up. I've also read a bit more from Ru in the three languages that I've got it in (Swedish, French, English). This last has taught me 'ömsom ... ömson' as a way of saying 'sometimes... sometimes'. I really like this. I use a similar construction occasionally when writing in English so it's nice to know there is a lovely and elegant construction in Swedish.

I started my Portuguese FLC log finally, although it's pretty bare at the current moment.

Finally, and going back to knitting, I shall hopefully be going to a knitting meet tomorrow evening. It's the same one I went to before, although I haven't gone for a while. It'll be nice to be back and it will double as some pretty thorough language training as I will be with a group of people whose accents I'm not familiar with, listening to them talk about a topic I don't usually talk about (in Swedish) in a place with quite a high level of background noise. It'll be interesting to see if I notice a difference from the last time I went: my listening comprehension is definitely much better now.

*Too much Clozemaster has a similar affect on my poor and delicate joints!
Last edited by Elenia on Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Elenia
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Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Elenia » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:53 pm

Morgana wrote:
Elenia wrote:...she didn't have to correct me on word order most of the time. I also got a 'hennes' 'sin' thing right on instinct! This rule has been explained to me so many times, and I have never gotten it. I still don't get it, but I used them correctly in a sentence where both where needed (to refer to the same person) so at least the distinction is trickling its way through somehow.


Yay! This is very relevant to me right now as I’ve discovered a weakness in my understanding of the use of these pronouns. It seems the hennes vs. sin/sitt/sina has some dependence on word order, I wonder... you’re getting the word order right and so maybe the pronouns are just naturally coming along with that! Gives me hope, anyway, that it won’t always have to be a conscious struggle :lol:


And I meant to answer in the previous post! I knew there was something I was forgetting. I still want to practice it explicitly but I'm glad it's finally sinking in! Now I'm waiting for the same to happen with word order in sub-clauses. It's getting better, but it's still not there!
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Elenia
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Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Elenia » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:43 pm

I have been Sick today. Or rather: I have been sick since Saturday at the very least, possibly since before, but I realised yesterday that I was probably sick enough to take time off of doing things. Not that I feel particularly sick - I feel fairly okay - but my left gland in my throat and the gums on that side of my mouth are very swollen. Swallowing hurts, talking for too long hurts, touching that bit of my face/neck hurts, thinking about it too much hurts. I can't get my teeth together without causing an undesirable bit of pain (and even then, they aren't fully together) which makes chewing a pain. Even drinking is a bit touch and go. For all that, I don't feel that sick but I figure no one else wants this so I should just keep myself at home.

This has not translated into a lot of studying. Men jag har stickat mycket mer på sjalen! Förhoppningsvis ska jag ha stickat färdigt vid sluten av veckan! Det är mer filt en sjal men det är helt okej, min mormor kan inte rör sig utav sängen i alla fall.

At any rate, I've been keeping on top of Clozemaster. I've been consistently studying around 60 new sentences per day for Eng-Swe, and today I had 102 reviews :shock: It's feeling pretty good to be making quicker progress than previously, and to not be spreading myself thin over so many courses. I have also been steady with Portuguese (ten new cards a day and reviews) and have reintroduced Eng-Ger with just ten reviews a day. I think that's enough for now. I am missing Finnish, but I need to figure out a low pressure way to bring that back. Probably with music? But how to find music I like is of course the question. I will have to like it enough to want to learn the lyrics and binge listen to it. I tend to listen to the same things over and over again (I've listened to three new-to-me albums since maybe November? Wait, no, only two). This is great for my language learning - as long as I find something to be obsessed with.

I read a bit more from Ru in Swedish and French today. Should get to reading some more. It's a very good book, I recommend it.

A mention here made me realise how soon the Super Challenge is! I'd been thinking for a while that I should do it in German, as I have so many German books. I only have a couple here in Sweden, plus an audiobook my German friend bought me for my birthday. But I have many more in the UK, and I'll be going back for my brother's birthday at the start of May. I'm sure my family will be glad to see the back of a few more of my books!
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Elenia
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Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Elenia » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:01 pm

Today's Swedish Word:

Oeftergivligt.

Är den inte fantastisk?

LOOOOTS of Clozemaster today, and I am writing a personal letter in Swedish :( I hate personal letters. So. Very. Much.
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Elenia
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Re: Languid Language Learning

Postby Elenia » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:34 am

Sjalen är (nästan!) klar! Jag stickade mig sönder och fick sätta tejp på händerna för att forsätta med stickandet men det är nu avmaskad! Nu behöver jag bara sy in ändorna och blockera den :D

Otherwise, I have discovered that the 'radar' feature on ravelry is like twitter for knitters! It's a feed of posts to different threads as they occur, and I mention it here because there is no language filter! I saw Dutch, German, Swedish, Finnish and French (although no Portuguese) in addition to English. It's great! The Finnish post was in a group for a knitting podcast, so it's nice to have a link to one although I won't be able to understand a bit of it :lol: Also, Germans are very well represented on Rav from what I can see, so that's also nice to know!

Beyond that, I stumbled my way through a French sentence yesterday and the day before. You may remember my horror story of having to interpret from Swedish to French! Well, the French speaker in question came into the shop on Friday and started speaking to me in French. I was shocked, but managed to reply. And yesterday, someone came to ask for coffee, but the café was closed. He communicated this to the woman he was with, in French, and so I explained to them that the café closes half an hour before the shop. These experiences have confirmed that my main difficulty with speaking French (apart from the fact that, most of the time, I don't want to) is Swedish words getting in the way. My heart wants to say 'avant' but everything else says 'innan'! I figure more French exposure would cure that, maybe a podcast? I don't need to necessarily become better at French, just to be able to talk to people occasionally. My comprehension is about as good as it's ever been, so that's not an issue.

Long story short: I want to be able to speak French again!
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