Just a log (English, Italian)

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
DaveBee
Blue Belt
Posts: 952
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:49 pm
Location: UK
Languages: English (native). French (studying).
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7466
x 1351

Re: Just a log (English)

Postby DaveBee » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:54 am

aaleks wrote:I keep watching lectures from The Polyglot Gathering. Today I watched this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ_hXML4nWg
Tim Morley - “Don’t say ‘quite’!” and “The Joy of Phrasal Verbs” [EN] - PG 2017

If I had to learn phrasal verbs that way - by memorizing them from a textbook - I would've quitted a long time ago :mrgreen: . But I guess that it's probably how most people learn them. Especially if they need a fast result. Learning all those verbs from exposure, as I've done, probably is more time consuming.
On another thread, Arnaud suggested english phrasal verbs have similarities with Russian. Would you agree?
Arnaud wrote:In my view, there is a lot of similarities between the english and russian verb systems: these so-called english "phrasal verbs" are built with the same logic as the russian verbs: russian uses prefixes where english uses these "post-verbal" particles (away, back, on, off, etc). All that gives an infinity of nuances that don't exist in french, imho.

In french, all that is less clear, a part of the information has been lost when the latin language was simplified to become the different romance languages, and the "average" native speaker often doesn't see anymore the "particles" that are included in the verbs: we only see the roots (exemple: porter, reporter, déporter, apporter, remporter, emporter, supporter, exporter, importer, but if you ask a native speaker to explain what does mean these re-, dé-, a-, rem-, em-, su-, ex-, im- prefixes, you can wait for a long time: people have more an intuitive feeling based on massive use of these prefixes than a clear knowledge of their signification).

French people are also more inclined to use "figurative" forms like "s'en aller" or "y aller" instead of "partir" for exemple. There is also some nuances difficult to graps for students of french like the difference between: "arriver" and "venir" (often I hear russian students who can't tell the difference between the two because they have only one verb for that idea: a motion verb built on the prefix при-): so you hear things like "Je suis arrivé au bureau en métro" intead of "je suis venu au bureau en métro".
1 x

aaleks
Green Belt
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:04 pm
Location: Russia
Languages: Russian (N)
English (?)
Italian (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6724
x 814

Re: Just a log (English)

Postby aaleks » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:59 pm

smallwhite wrote:
aaleks wrote:Yesterday I was reading one of the old threads (this one https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =14&t=4730 , tbh I didn't get the name of the thread :roll: )

I'm not sure if you've gotten it by now but anyway here's what I found:
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... ve-it-good
"to be in comfortable circumstances"
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/di ... it-so-good
"to have so many benefits, esp material benefits"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/diction ... 0it%20good
"to be in a favorable position or situation
There's no reason for her to be so unhappy. She really has it (pretty) good.
He's never had it so good."

Thank you! :)

DaveBee wrote:On another thread, Arnaud suggested english phrasal verbs have similarities with Russian. Would you agree?
Arnaud wrote:In my view, there is a lot of similarities between the english and russian verb systems: these so-called english "phrasal verbs" are built with the same logic as the russian verbs: russian uses prefixes where english uses these "post-verbal" particles (away, back, on, off, etc). All that gives an infinity of nuances that don't exist in french, imho.
...


This is interesting. I never thought about it before but probably Arnaud is right. Speaking of English and Russian from my, native Russian, perspective, these two languages are very different and similar at the same time, and that's confusing. I mean often I write something in English, and think it sounds OK, and then I think "does it sound natural for English or for Russian?", and I try to fix it, and I mess it up :mrgreen: .
2 x

aaleks
Green Belt
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:04 pm
Location: Russia
Languages: Russian (N)
English (?)
Italian (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6724
x 814

Re: Just a log (English)

Postby aaleks » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:25 pm

I guess it's about time to make something like a 2017 summary. I'm unsure if it's the right word but I can't come up with anything better :roll: .

My main language learning achievement this year has been writing, i.e. the simple fact that I've started to write in English. To be honest it wasn't something I really planned to do :) . Anyway I'm glad that I've done it.

The bad... well, probably not bad, maybe it's even a good thing too. It's about me and grammar :D . I've already written here about my problem with Present Perfect. Well, it seems I've solved the puzzle* but/and the thing is I've done that on my own - from exposure. I was watching a series and when at some point someone used the tense it just dawned on me, so to speak. I guess it should be counted as a good thing :roll: but... at the same time I realized how many time I wasted on the almost useless thing for me - grammar (the key words - "for me"), and this isn't good really. No, I don't think that studying grammar is useless but it seems that my logic and the logic of people who write grammar rules is somehow different, so I practically always get them wrong. No matter what language they use - Russian or English. The very same thing was happening with me in school, only back then it were Russian orthography, punctuation, etc. rules. The funny, or sad, thing is that after I've figured out how it works/what's it about by myself those rules are starting make sense :mrgreen: unfortunately it doesn't work the other way around.

So the bad thing is that my chase for grammar has slowed down my progress in general. And what is even worse - it has affected my other (perceptive) skills.

But the good thing :) is I've finally figured out what my "true path" is. So if I start studying another language I won't waste my time on grammar drilling but better spend that time on just reading about grammar rules and try to understand how they work from native materials. That's probably is not as fast and effective as studying grammar explicitly but it looks like for me that's more effective.

*It doesn't mean that now I stop misusing the tense in my writing :mrgreen: . It needs some time ;) .
6 x

User avatar
Ani
Brown Belt
Posts: 1037
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:58 am
Location: Alaska
Languages: English (N), speaks French, Russian & Icelandic (beginner)
x 2442
Contact:

Re: Just a log (English)

Postby Ani » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:13 pm

aaleks wrote:I guess it's about time to make something like a 2017 summary. I'm unsure if it's the right word but I can't come up with anything better :roll: .
.


Summary is fine. Recap/breakdown/review also work :)

Merry Christmas of you celebrate. Happy holidays/Happy New Year :)
1 x
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

aaleks
Green Belt
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:04 pm
Location: Russia
Languages: Russian (N)
English (?)
Italian (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6724
x 814

Re: Just a log (English)

Postby aaleks » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:41 pm

Ani wrote:
aaleks wrote:I guess it's about time to make something like a 2017 summary. I'm unsure if it's the right word but I can't come up with anything better :roll: .
.


Summary is fine. Recap/breakdown/review also work :)

Thank you! I'll try to remember (or just write down) ;) :)

Ani wrote:Merry Christmas of you celebrate. Happy holidays/Happy New Year :)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year :)
We celebrate but on January 7th because of Julian and Gregorian calendars differences *.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar
0 x

aaleks
Green Belt
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:04 pm
Location: Russia
Languages: Russian (N)
English (?)
Italian (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6724
x 814

Re: Just a log (English)

Postby aaleks » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:18 pm

The New year holidays are about to end so it's probably the time to write something here :roll:
I don't make plans or resolutions, or any other things like these but still there are things I would like to get done this year.

I would like to get my English up to the next level, or at least up to something. In other words I want to keep progressing in the language. But... well I have doubts that it's going to happen. I'm not a beginner anymore so I would have to put in a lot of efforts to move at least a little forward. For example, I need/must/have to write much more than I have been doing but I know that I hardly would do that. The main reason is - time. Writing is a very time consuming task, at least for me. And even when I have something to write about often I don't have enough time for that. Probably that is what I need to learn in the first place - write faster (fast-writing? :roll: :mrgreen: ) :lol: . ... and think less :D . And that's probably what I'm going to do. The latter. To some extent :roll: . During the last year I closed some of grammar gaps and questions that bothered me most, and now I feel that I need some time to "digest" all that information.

Also I would like to turn my occasional dabbling in French into more consistent dabbling. I don't feel that my English is strong enough to be able to resist interference from French (or any other language). So dabbling is a kind of compromise decision here.

Как-то так... :roll:
1 x

aaleks
Green Belt
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:04 pm
Location: Russia
Languages: Russian (N)
English (?)
Italian (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6724
x 814

Re: Just a log (English)

Postby aaleks » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:53 pm

A short update.

Yesterday I finished the first book in English I've read this year (I hope that wouldn't be the only one book :mrgreen: ) . I read it in 4 days which is quite a record for me. Probably one of the reason why I managed to do it in such a short (for me) time is that it seems my reading rate had increased (from about 20 to 30 page an hour).
4 x

aaleks
Green Belt
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:04 pm
Location: Russia
Languages: Russian (N)
English (?)
Italian (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6724
x 814

Re: Just a log (English)

Postby aaleks » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:29 pm

I am really tired and it would be a struggle to write in English. Besides I read in the 'What Makes a Good Log?' thread that writing in your L2 isn't the right strategy if you want that someone read your log, so ... I was going to write a couple of comments in a couple of threads but because my English today is in one of its badest shapes I'll write those comments here... in my L1 то бишь Russian ;)

What Makes a Good Log?
Вообще я считаю это не совсем правильным делить logи на хорошие и плохие. Каждый, кто решает завести лог, делает это с какой-то своей целью. Моя, например, была и есть - тренировка райтинга, т.е. письма, если по-русски)). Сама я читаю совершенно различные логи, независимо от того какие языки человек учит. Повторно обычно заглядываю туда, где что-то меня зацепило в прошлый раз: стиль автора, какие-то интересные мысли, дискуссии и т.д. В разных логах это могут быть совершенно разные вещи. Одно время мне было интересно читать посты на немецком - мне было интересно сколько я еще помню и что могу вспомнить. Пожалуй мои интересы в плане лого-чтения так же хаотичны как и мой подход к изучению иностранных языков ))

Why do language skills go from good to bad to good again?
Со мной это происходит постоянно. Вот сегодня как раз такой день. И разумеется страдает в первую очередь самый слабый мой навык на данный момент - письмо. Но я давно привыкла к этому и для меня это всегда было как бы неотъемлемой части самого процесса. Причем не только в случае изучения языков, я знала о данном эффекте еще до начала изучения английского, поэтому это конечно всегда немного расстраивает, но я не переживаю из-за этого. Се ля ви, так сказать. Ну и, кстати, усталось как раз один из факторов, который провоцирует подобные регрессы, на мой взгляд. Все-таки иностранный язык для мозга большая нагрузка, ИМХО, чем наш родной язык.

The thrid isn't a thread question. It's about one discussion I read today in one of the logs. Slow-readers vs. fast-readers vs. grammar.
Я из тех кто читает медленно. Во всяком случае я привыкла считать, что я читаю медленно. В любом случае даже на русском я не способна читать 100 страниц в час. Когда я послдений раз проверяла, года три назад, это было что-то около 40 страниц +/-. На английском, даже без использования словаря, моя скорость долгое время была районе 10-15 страниц, отчасти поэтому и норму чтения на английском я себе в свое время установила - минимум 10 страниц в день. Хотя уже второй год я этой норме не следую и прошлом году вообще мало читала.
Вообще я начала читать поздно - с 10 лет. Т.е. умела-то я читать и писать, тогда еще печатными буквами, с 5-ти лет, но вот большие, по размеру, книги читать начала только с 10-ти. Правда с этого момента читала я все подряд, как детские книги, так и Дюма, Лондона, русскую классику (правда Достоевский в 12 лет мне оказался не "по зубам" все же)). При этом я была совершенно средним ребенком, просто как-то так уж получилось во времена моего детства, если не все, то большинство детей читали, ходили в библиотеки, и это было как бы нормально. Мы успевали и на улице с друзьями гулять, и спортом заниматься, и телевизор смотреть, и читать. Как-то никогда не было или спорт, или книга.
Что касается грамматики, то в моем случае причинно-следственная связь "медленное чтение - лучше грамматика" не работает. Я могу помнить смысл, но совершенно не помнить, или не точно помнить, форуму как это было написано.

And I guess that's all. It was a one-time action... I think :roll: . Actually I always feel weird when I write something in Russian on this forum. Sometimes I even have to translate my thoughts from English back to Russian :shock: .
4 x

aaleks
Green Belt
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:04 pm
Location: Russia
Languages: Russian (N)
English (?)
Italian (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6724
x 814

Re: Just a log (English)

Postby aaleks » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:20 pm

I just read my previous entry, the Russian part :shock: :? It's soooooo bad! :oops: I fixed some typos but that couldn't make the text much better anyway. I've decided to write about that because the post above could be read by Russian learners. That text is very, very, very bad :!: It's awkward and unnatural. For example "медленное чтение" should've been "медленная скорость чтения", etc.
0 x

User avatar
MamaPata
Blue Belt
Posts: 612
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:25 am
Location: London
Languages: English (N), French (B2), Russian (B1), Spanish (A2).

Long lost: Arabic and Latin.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3004
x 1004

Re: Just a log (English)

Postby MamaPata » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:45 pm

Я была очень рада, потому что все поняла, а потом вы скажете, что текст неправильно написанный! Кошмар. :lol: (Ну, честно говоря, когда я видела "Се ли ви", мне надо было читать вслух, чтобы понять!)

Я согласна с том, что вы писали про 'логи'. Я тоже читаю разные логи - мне не нравится думать что один хороший, или другой плохой.

Мне кажется, что если вы можете прочитать книгу в течении четырёх дней, вы не читаете медленно!

(Извините за ошибок!)
1 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Denzagathist and 1 guest