Sentence reps investigation.

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sfuqua
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Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
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French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Sentence reps investigation.

Postby sfuqua » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:23 am

:roll: I think I've got a new path that I am going to follow for a while...

I fooled around with this for a couple of weeks and then went back to glossika; see post 3 of this series.

Being a little frustrated by trying to figure out what direction glossika is going to take, and frankly being a little tired of the random sets of sentences that glossika feeds you, I decided to set out on my own, to see if I could come up with something similar. I really want to develop some fluency in my Spanish and my French. I'm a beginner at French although some things are starting to rattle out of my mouth...

(sarcasm)
I have developed a groundbreaking system that will guarantee a high level of fluency in both languages in a few months. Using a highly technical process I have prepared a program which will teach language the way a baby learns it, by listening to movies. If 60000 reps of 3000 sentences will develop fluency, this program will obviously produce what I call "superfluency" by using 180000 reps of 9000 sentences. This program is designed to cause neurons to reprogram themselves and teach you to "speak like a movie star".

This program uses a set of subtitles from movies which were carefully selected because they were around the house on the day that my daughter was sick and I stayed home from work. The movies were arranged in optimal pedagogical order (uh, alphabetical by title), and the srt files were concatenated together. The resulting file was then text processed into a text file of sentences from the movies. Tags for tts voices were put into the file, and then IVONA and Nuance Vocalizer voices were used to produce a set of mp3 files. Every 20 sentences the TTS voice was switched and a new file was started. This process was repeated for both Spanish and French. A male and a female voice in standard French and a female voice in Canadian French were used for French and a male and a female voice with European Spanish and a male and female voice with American Spanish were used for Spanish.

By using the TTS voices, learners can develop a good robotic intonation, avoiding the common problems learners have, of sounding like humans.

Using subtitles will help teach important language skills such as:
-What to say when you come home after a night out and find Jean Paul Belmondo sleeping in your bed.
-How to tell your lover that she has to leave on an airplane with her husband.
-How to escape from Atlanta with Rhett Butler.
-How to make someone an offer they can't refuse.
-How to be seduced by a creepy American man while you are searching for an apartment in Paris.(/sarcasm)

Anyway, it makes as much sense as some of the Assimil lessons.

Oh well, not that funny. I'm going to try shadowing subtitles from movies for a while; I think this will be a good exercise...
I found that glossika was having some effect; I'm just trying to get some high interest sentences to practice.

I edited this because I keep thinking of things to add.
I need to do a new post :D
Last edited by sfuqua on Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:13 pm, edited 7 times in total.
15 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

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sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Talk like a movie star in an L2!!!

Postby sfuqua » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:19 am

This all started because I watched "Breathless" again. My cinema professors back in the 70's worshipped Godard, and I watched it without properly appreciating it then. Now, watching it with nobody telling me I had to love it, I absolutely loved it. Ah, Jean Seberg. This got me thinking about subtitles...
Right now, it feels like shadowing subtitles has the same effect as doing glossika reps, but I've only been at it a couple of days.

(sarcasm)
After only a couple of days of shadowing, I've memorized a nice greeting from the first line of "À bout de souffle".
Jean Paul Belmondo starts the movie by saying "Apres tout je suis con." This will probably make a good way to greet French tourists in Dublin next summer.
I have a lot to learn. If I can't come up with a conversation starter when I'm with a bunch of French or Spanish tourists, or with the Mexican construction guy who lives upstairs, I can use "Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes." That should lead to some interesting conversations.

Instead of wasting time time learning how to greet people politely or rent a hotel room, subtitles give me skills such as trying to convince Jean Seberg to take off her blouse, telling Sam to play "As time goes by", or getting revenge for Sonny's murder.

Glossika suggests that 30 000 reps will lead to a breakthrough in fluency; 60 000 reps will get you up to speed as a beginner in a language that is relatively easy, but that aiming for 90 000 reps is a good goal. I'm going to call 100 000 reps "movie star" level. Because of the settings I used in tts and lack of pauses in the file, I can do at least 500 reps a day in both languages (this is what I, and all the cool kids, call, "superlearning"). This means I am about 200 days away from "movie star" French and Spanish. I can't wait to reprogram my neurons by superlearning so that I reach "movie star" level.(/sarcasm)

Right now this is where things sit. Subtitles are good sources of language which resemble natural speech. You can make a file which can be used to create tts files which can be put into a shadowing algorithm which will lead you eventually to almost memorize the passages. Lacking the context of the movie, it can hard to follow what is going on, but a watch of the movie will usually put you right. The extreme nature of movie interactions make for some interesting sentences, which have intrinsic motivation if you love the movies involved.

French, Spanish shadowing reps
extra: 11000 / 100000 =>movie star
movie star = 100 000 reps


I try and succeed in using Spanish for my "inner dialog" whenever I can.
I try and usually fail in using French for my "inner dialog".
8 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Restarted Glossika GSR investigation

Postby sfuqua » Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:23 am

Perhaps if glossika destroys their GSR system, these courses will become legendary language learning tools.

I spend about 2 weeks shadowing subtitle files; it seems to work like glossika GSR files.

I also discovered another source of sentences to use for shadowing; they have these things called books, which are just big lists of sentences. Of course they tend to be in 3rd person, and they also tend to stay in past tense more than we do in conversation.

There also is glossika itself.

I decided to restart glossika, this time with just Spanish and French. Three languages was too much for me.
.
I'm going to grind through glossika this year and hope that it will bring my French up to a B1 level of fluency by next summer. My Spanish is shaky enough that it could use a boot to make it a secure B1. I'm still capable of the greatest idiocy in generating Spanish when under pressure.

The past year or so, I have had a completely miserable working situation. I am a middle school teacher, which means I am a pretty busy fellow, just keeping up with the challenges of teaching adolescents. The past year, I have had a hostile supervisor. This has been very hard. There are some signs that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, at least as far as this supervisor is concerned. Last year, I had to stop much of my language study, because of the effects of my miserable work situation. I appears that this year
I can depend on having my hour of language learning.

I'm going to alternate, day by day, between the Spanish and Mexican versions of the Spanish course.
French was hard when I went through the first 55 days of the course; I hope it will be easier on a second try.

I'm going to try to read Spanish and French every day.
7 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Restarted Glossika GSR investigation

Postby sfuqua » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:39 pm

French, Spanish sentence reps
stumbling: 10500 / 60000 fluent
Fluency = 60 000 reps

So far, so good. I kind of miss my subtitle files, but glossika is very convenient.

The 10000 reps I did in my first run through glossika had a definite effect.
I wonder how long until fluency.
I'm going to make sure I read in Spanish and French everyday to try to "multitrack" at least a little.
Last edited by sfuqua on Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
0 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6299

Re: Restarted Glossika GSR investigation

Postby sfuqua » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:38 am

Another day of GSR files. I'm doing it more or less according the glossika's instructions. Since I went through these files earlier, this summer, they are very easy.
I'm going to just keep plugging through it; I don't care about maximum efficiency.

This is my approach:
GMS-A 01 file
GSR day 1 file

GMS-C 01 file
GSR day 2 file

GMS-C 01 file
GSR day 2 file

GMS-C 01 file
GSR day 3 file

GMS-C 01 file
GSR day 4 file

GMS-C 01 file
GSR day 5 file

GMS-A 50 file
GSR day 6 file

I'm doing "extra" GMS-C files because I learned that I wasn't remembering the GMS-A files well enough to do the French. French has enough difference between the written and spoken forms that I was having trouble keeping track of word boundaries. The GMS-C files, which I read along with, only add about 5 minutes each to my study day.

I'm going to try to read in both Spanish and French, but sometimes energy can be hard to find after work.

I usually find myself studying while tired, but think of the benefits...

It's next summer. I'm in Paris. I look across the crowd and suddenly I see the lovely goddess of a French exchange student that I had a crush on in high school (and I never talked to). Even though it has been almost 50 years I recognize her at once and she smiles at me. I run up and say, in my glossika strengthened French, "I bet you don't remember me." She brushes her perfect, short blond hair and answers, "Of course I remember you. You never spoke, but I always wanted to meet you." I take her hands and tell her, "I know this is sudden, but I've had a crush on you ever since history class in 1969."

She smiles, looks at me with her shining blue eyes and...

then we sit down to compare pictures of our grandchildren. :D
6 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
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Re: Restarted GSR investigation

Postby sfuqua » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:24 am

OK, I've decided to stay with GSR.
I asked about FSI, and I'm sure that FSI is a much more complete course, but GSR fits nicely into my schedule.

I've continued on, and GSR seems to working better than ever.

It's weird to say something in French and have it be right, and really have no idea about the grammar involved.

Let me be more clear about what my (beginner) French feels like right now. I have a tremendous crush on the language. Everything about it is enticing. It is mysterious and exciting. I want to know it all right now.

French also is a big tease. With all of the cognates to English and Spanish, I feel like I know it better than I do. I keep thinking that I should just take off reading and talking and just enjoy this lovely language.

But then, just when I think I'm being cool with French, I realize that I just listened to 5 minutes of the news and I don't know a thing they were talking about.

To quote those great philosophers of the '80's, Echo and the Bunnymen, from "Lips like Sugar."

Just when you think you've caught her
She glides across the water
She calls for you tonight
To share this moonlight...
Just when you think she's yours
She's flown to other shores
To laugh at how you break
And melt into this lake
You'll flow down her river
But you'll never...
get her.

French always slips away and sends me off alone.

OK, what am I doing to catch this lovely, elusive language:

I'm doing one GSR file a day, and I'm doing the related GMS file, GMS-A when I'm starting a new set of 50 sentences and GMS-C on other days. I feel a little fatigue, but it's not too bad and it fits into my daily "hour of language." I'm also doing Spanish, and at this point, I'm not seeing that much that is challenging. I think that some of the later GSR files will stretch me, so I'm going to keep moving along.
I'm switching between the Mexican and European versions of the courses each day to make Spanish a little more interesting. I always absolutely love whatever version of Spanish I haven't heard for a while, and this switching back and forth makes it more interesting.

I'm also doing anki again, just some "intensive reading" cards. I put some really hard sentences into anki and I'm listening to them with tts while I read them. I'm not doing any production here at all, just listening and reading. If this goes as it did when I did something similar with Spanish, after about 1000 cards I will see a big increase in my reading skills.

I wish I had time to do some L-R, but I may have to have that wait until next summer vacation...
Last edited by sfuqua on Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:40 pm, edited 4 times in total.
2 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6299

Re: Restarted GSR investigation

Postby sfuqua » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:26 am

Oops, I double posted

I wish I had time to do some L-R, but I may have to have that wait until next summer vacation...
French, Spanish sentence reps
stumbling: 12500 / 60000 fluent
Fluency (HA!) = 60 000 reps
0 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6299

Re: Restarted GSR investigation

Postby sfuqua » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:11 pm

I really don't think there is anything wrong with my French that will not be solved by time on task.
1 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

User avatar
sfuqua
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:05 am
Location: san jose, california
Languages: Bad English: native
Samoan: speak, but rusty
Tagalog: imperfect, but use all the time
Spanish: read
French: read some
Japanese: beginner, obsessively studying
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9248
x 6299

Re: Restarted GSR investigation

Postby sfuqua » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:47 am

Wow, I'm earning my French today.

I had a hard day.
Sometimes middle school kids can be a big pain for a teacher to deal with.
My teaching day was followed by a meeting that I had a hard time staying awake in.
Then I had a daughter to pick up after basketball practice, and 40 liters of filtered water to bring home and store, and when it was time to study, I was so tired my hands and knees were shaking.

Wow, it was hard. My head hurt and my brain ached. I just kept chugging along through the GSM and GSR files.
I actually didn't do that badly once I got started with doing my reps, but there was very little joy in it.

I am not a masochist nor do I think that language learning is the most important thing in my busy life as a father and teacher.
But sometimes, if you are going to get anywhere, I think that you have to push yourself.
I certainly pushed myself tonight.

Now, it's time to read _Wonder Woman_ to my daughter and then sleep.

Peace, everybody.
5 x
荒海や佐渡によこたふ天の川

the rough sea / stretching out towards Sado / the Milky Way
Basho[1689]

Sometimes Japanese is just too much...

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PeterMollenburg
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
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Re: Restarted GSR investigation

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:31 am

sfuqua wrote:I am not a masochist nor do I think that language learning is the most important thing in my busy life as a father and teacher.
But sometimes, if you are going to get anywhere, I think that you have to push yourself.
I certainly pushed myself tonight.

Now, it's time to read _Wonder Woman_ to my daughter and then sleep.

Peace, everybody.


Have a good rest, you deserve it. And I tend to agree, if you want to get there, you've got to point in the work, which you are certainly doing. Good job sfuqua ;)
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