tak sadar aku dirayu setan

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Xmmm
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tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Xmmm » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:29 pm

Cxi tiu logo estos dedicxita al la provo lerni Esperanton en ducent kvardek horoj.

Mi ecx ne scias, cxu cxi tio eblas. Sed homoj diras, ke Esperanto estas du, kvar, kvin, dekoble pli facila ol la hispana aux la italo. Mi supozas, ke ni vidos.

Mi rigardis Inkubun hodiaux. Mirinda! Mi ne pensis ke la prononco estis tre malbonega ... plejparte.


: 32 / 240 Total hours
: 4 / 50 Clozemaster hours
: 0 / 50 Italki hours
: 18 / 120 L/R hours
: 10 / 20 Duolingo + Lernu hours
Last edited by Xmmm on Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Ещё раз сунешь голову туда — окажешься внутри. Поняла, Фемида? -- аигел

Xmmm
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Xmmm's L4 log

Postby Xmmm » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:29 pm

Well, my interest in Esperanto has faded. It now joins the ranks of Norwegian, Turkish, and German.

Even though this looks like a string of failures, I always keep in mind the saying attributed to Winston Churchill: "Success is the ability to go from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm."

One positive from this dabbling is that my criteria for L4 are now clearly defined:


1. It has to fit in the 'classical' or 'exotic' box for the Arguelles Six. Esperanto, Norwegian, and German all failed that test.

2. It has to have a significantly different world view from the prevailing one. Esperanto, Norwegian, and German all failed that test. (Italian would have failed this test but was lucky enough to be L3).

3. It has to be easier than Russian. Turkish failed that test.

4. It has to have native media that I find compelling. Esperanto and Norwegian failed that test.

5. It has to have high quality beginner courses that I can easily find with no effort. Norwegian and to some extent Esperanto failed that test. I'm looking for listening-based beginner courses.


Anyway, the next language in the death seat will be Indonesian. I'm dabbling with learningindonesian.com and listening to dangdut. I'm enjoying the course, and I'm finding the music strangely fascinating so maybe the fourth time is the charm.
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Ещё раз сунешь голову туда — окажешься внутри. Поняла, Фемида? -- аигел

Xmmm
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tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Xmmm » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:57 am

If anyone needs another reason to learn Indonesian, I'd just like to mention that Dangdut videos on YouTube frequently come in karaoke form! How convenient is that for a language learner? :)




This is a video of Tuty Wibowo. Info on her is sparse (in English, anyway). The only facts I know are that she was born in Jakarta and was one of the pioneers of Dangdut. From the songs on "The Best Tuty Wibowo 2011", I surmise that she is a native speaker of both Indonesian and English.

Dangdut is an indigenous Indonesian style of music that seems to be a mash-up of 1980s New Wave and Bollywood. This particular song tilts toward New Wave, but others tilt the other way and "Jablay" swings back and forth between two extremes every thirty seconds and will give you whiplash.

Anyway, "The Best Tuty Wibowo 2011" is available in the US at Amazon.com for $3.99. Such a deal!
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Ещё раз сунешь голову туда — окажешься внутри. Поняла, Фемида? -- аигел

Xmmm
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Xmmm » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:02 pm

Given that studying Russian and Italian simultaneously takes a great deal of time, the only way Indonesian was going to fit into my schedule was via an audio course that I could do during my commute. Pimsleur only has level 1 for Indonesian ... it didn't seem worth pursuing that. Fortunately, learningindonesian.com has positive reviews so I decided to try that.

After three weeks I've completed 16 lessons and learned 233 words, which are all in an anki deck. Assuming all goes well, by Christmas I should be done with the course and have learned about 1000 words.

Finally, I understand why it is a common piece of advice here to "start with Pimsleur." Even though learningindonesian.com is not Pimsleur, it is an audio based program with active recall where there is some emphasis on pronunciation. I'm learning the words effortlessly ... anki is a breeze and my reviews have 80%+ accuracy.

I'm also clearly hearing what good pronunciation sounds like. The word "Anda" means "you". Cici (the native speaker) pronounces it in a way that sounds like "Uhndueh." Shaun then follows up saying "Anda" exactly how it's written using English phonetic rules ... and I cringe. :) I don't know if showing the right way and the "bule" way was intentional, but the contrast seems to help. I work hard to copy Cici.

Anyway, I did pay the money for the premium package ... largely as a way to force myself to commit to finishing. The lessons are rarely longer than 10-12 minutes. Going through each lesson two times is enough, then through the vocabulary list into Anki ... done. Less than 30 minutes a day and pretty effortless. It seems like the course will take the learner to a solid A2 in speaking and listening.
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Ещё раз сунешь голову туда — окажешься внутри. Поняла, Фемида? -- аигел

Xmmm
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Xmmm » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:26 pm

Basically one month into Indonesian, and 24 lessons of learningindonesian.com finished, with 342 words in anki. The active recall approach, while probably less scientifically done than Pimsleur, still helps a lot. I score over 80% on anki reviews with no leeches yet.

The hardest thing about Indonesian so far is those Rs. Indonesians don't roll their Rs. They rip their Rs. They could cut down trees with their Rs. When the native speaker in this course does some of these Rs, it sounds more like there is a rattlesnake in the room than a human being making the sound.

After diligent practice, I'm finally able do these Rs when they come at the beginning of words (Ratus) or the end (Bakar). Although my kids tell me I sound demented and contort my face when I do them. But what to do about "Terlalu" and "Tertarik"? Are they kidding? So more work for me there.

I've been very successful at keeping this L4 to an average of 20 minutes a day and am pleased with the results so far.

For "Xmmm's Method 3.0", I think the Indonesian path will look something like:

1. learningindonesian
2. indonesianpod101
3. GLOSS
4. TV and movies and books
5. Glossika, Italki maybe in 2022
Last edited by Xmmm on Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ещё раз сунешь голову туда — окажешься внутри. Поняла, Фемида? -- аигел

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Adrianslont
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Adrianslont » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:02 am

Hi. Just wanted to say hi because I’m learning Indonesian, too and there aren’t many of us in the forum.

I love your descriptions of the Indonesian trilled r. It is one of my many weaknesses in the language - and I’ve been learning for about three years. I can only get it right in certain words. I just tell myself that it will come but maybe I should actually do some explicit work on it.

French has gotten in the way of Indonesian for about the last five months but I’ve still been doing my anki reps and drip feeding new cards into the deck because I made them months ago. And I listen to Indo in the car occasionally when I don’t want to listen to french. And have Indo media outlets in my Facebook feed.

There was a forum member, Blue, who is also studying Indonesian but hasn’t been around for a while. He and I swapped info about resources for a while on his log. You might be interested in giving it a search. Feel free to ask me about the resources I mention.

I haven’t got into dangdut deeply enough to know who I like and who I don’t - I should do that because generally I like pop music.
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Xmmm
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Xmmm » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Adrianslont wrote:Hi. Just wanted to say hi because I’m learning Indonesian, too and there aren’t many of us in the forum.

I love your descriptions of the Indonesian trilled r. It is one of my many weaknesses in the language - and I’ve been learning for about three years. I can only get it right in certain words. I just tell myself that it will come but maybe I should actually do some explicit work on it.

French has gotten in the way of Indonesian for about the last five months but I’ve still been doing my anki reps and drip feeding new cards into the deck because I made them months ago. And I listen to Indo in the car occasionally when I don’t want to listen to french. And have Indo media outlets in my Facebook feed.

There was a forum member, Blue, who is also studying Indonesian but hasn’t been around for a while. He and I swapped info about resources for a while on his log. You might be interested in giving it a search. Feel free to ask me about the resources I mention.

I haven’t got into dangdut deeply enough to know who I like and who I don’t - I should do that because generally I like pop music.


Thanks, Adrianslont. I've read your posts and I wouldn't surprised if they helped move Indonesian into the orbit of languages I would consider learning. Up until last month the only Indonesian I knew was a few instructions in silat: "sapu dalem", "sapu luar", "puter kepala", "tarik kepala" ... and even there, I know what those moves are but I don't know what the words themselves mean.

As for dangdut, I know almost nothing about it. I just found Tuty Wibowo on Youtube serendipitously and went from there. Ayu Ting Ting is either Tuty's top competitor or a former protege or both ... Google translate made a hash out of the Indonesian fan articles I tried to read.

For you as an Australian, I imagine there is some practical benefit to learning it even if it's only tourism. For me, Indonesia is a fifteen hour plane flight I'm not likely to make very often if at all. But it also means Indonesia is a terra incognita for me. I know that I like Balinese dancing, gamelan music, silat, and dangdut ... but I actually know close to zero about Indonesia other than that.

Hopefully I can keep juggling everything else in my life enough to keep a few daily minutes for Indonesian ...
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:03 pm

Xmmm wrote:Up until last month the only Indonesian I knew was a few instructions in silat: "sapu dalem", "sapu luar", "puter kepala", "tarik kepala" ... and even there, I know what those moves are but I don't know what the words themselves mean.


Another silat player on the forum? :D
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Xmmm
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Xmmm » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:21 pm

jeff_lindqvist wrote:
Xmmm wrote:Up until last month the only Indonesian I knew was a few instructions in silat: "sapu dalem", "sapu luar", "puter kepala", "tarik kepala" ... and even there, I know what those moves are but I don't know what the words themselves mean.


Another silat player on the forum? :D


Yes, but I wouldn't say I was particularly good at it ... despite taking a one hour class dedicated to silat every week for the last two years and having it blended into my regular mma class.

Silat seems to require a lot of subtility ... and subtility is not my forte, alas.
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Ещё раз сунешь голову туда — окажешься внутри. Поняла, Фемида? -- аигел

Xmmm
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Re: tak sadar aku dirayu setan

Postby Xmmm » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:47 am

Indonesian Films
(ranked by my preference, super awful movies will be highlighted in red)

1. The Globalization Tapes
2. Jagal (warning: disturbing)
3. Janji Joni (thanks Adrianslont!)
4. Sang Penari
5. November 1828
6. Seandainya
7. Senyap (warning: disturbing)
8. Pendekar Tongkat Emas
9. Headshot (warning: super violent)
10. Pencarian Terakhir



Others: Ruma Maida, Aisyah: Biarkan Kami Bersaudara, Serbuan Maut, 7 Hari 24 Jam

: 14 / 200 Films
Last edited by Xmmm on Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:18 am, edited 17 times in total.
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Ещё раз сунешь голову туда — окажешься внутри. Поняла, Фемида? -- аигел


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