There is this thread In Textkit, Modern Greek and Ancient Greek, that bears on this question. I find the whole thread interesting in relation to this thread here, including the 8th note by member IreneY. Residing now, AFAIK, in the USA, she is a native of Greece and once taught Ancient Greek in Greece, so her remarks seem to me to be especially apposite. My own intuition is that if you are not a native Greek speaker and you want to learn both Modern Greek and Ancient Greek, then start with Modern Greek. I think Schliemann did it that way, but I'm not sure where that thread is in this forum and don't think it is important enought to find it.Iversen wrote:overscore wrote:I've been reading a ton about ancient greek things, and somewhat naively I though there would be significant overlap between the Ancient Greek languages and the Modern Greek language, but that doesn't appear to be the case, at all. There doesn't seem to be any significant intelligibility between the two(...)
That's also my conclusion - although seen from the perspective of a naive learner of Modern Greek. I have read that some Greeks claim that reading Ancient Greek is piece of cake for them since it is the same language, but seeing the two stages together doesn't seem to bear that out. It would be nice with a real test of how much Modern Greeks real would be able to understand of a text by Aristotle or Omiros. Modern Danes can't understand the sagas in Old Norse without studying the language of the ancestors so I would be very surprised if the Greeks could understand texts that are twice as old.
Overscore's log: srpski
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Re: Overscore's log
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Serbian
Pretty good. Doing something with the language every single day without exception. I don't make life difficult on myself like having to complete tedious textbook work or cramming lists of words anymore, but that's the basic rule I set for myself, and I can see the genius of having a bit of discipline. If I'm very tired and not feeling like it, like it happened last week, then just doing the Anki repetitions is great.
I have noticed the rate at which I'm adding cards is definitely not slowing down, might be increasing a bit lately. I have been keeping statistics on my deck's overall size in bytes, and will continue to do so.
Today I read a text about the Luna 2 probe (they use the french term, "sonda"), which is little known, but was in fact the first object to hit the moon.
Мало се зна да су Совјети пре Американаца стигли на површину Земљиног сателита
После смрти неприкосновеног совјетског вође Јосифа Висарионовича Џугашвилија, познатијег као Стаљин, 5. марта 1953. године уследиле су борбе за наследника. Као победник изашао је Никита Сергејевич Хрушчов, који се обрачунао са супарницима, понајпре свемогућим шефом тајне полиције Лаврентијем Беријом. Стручњаци из иностранства нису веровали да ће Хрушчов да напусти курс који је заузео Стаљин, тим пре што је сматран његовим верним следбеником. Напослетку, преживео је чистке тридесетих година. Зато је и изненађење било веће после чувеног „Тајног реферата” 1956. године којим је одбацио Стаљинов култ личности, а уједно оптужио претходника и за стравичне злочине.
Слични земљотреси спремали су се и на спољнополитичком плану. Прогласио је „миран суживот” са САД. Дивио се америчком председнику Двајту Ајзенхауеру, кога је називао „човеком мира”. И поред тога, као бомба је експлодирала вест да ће септембра 1959. године премијер СССР посетити Вашингтон. Историјска посета, нема шта.
Тог 15. септембра на путу с аеродрома до Беле куће постављен је шпалир. Хрушчов и Ајзенхауер возили су се у отвореном аутомобилу, махали посматрачима. После изјава, домаћин је госта повео у разгледање Беле куће. Испоставило се да Хрушчов није дошао празних руку. Уз осмех, уручио је Ајзенхауеру лоптасти предмет, с урезаним српом и чекићем. Била је то копија исте такве кугле у сонди „Луна 2”. Заправо, прва свемирска летелица која се само дан раније спустила на површину Месеца.
It's pretty interesting, I'd make a small summary but I'm afraid I would ruin the anecdote.
Incidentally, anecdotes are an integral part of slavic society, I'm guessing that's why Krushchov figured he would leave an interesting anecdote to the annals of history.
Actually the story goes further, I will read the rest tomorrow.
Tomorrow is beer fest... I hope I can survive it. I'm going to set a strict moderation beer drinking goal under exceptional circumstances for the days to come.
Pretty good. Doing something with the language every single day without exception. I don't make life difficult on myself like having to complete tedious textbook work or cramming lists of words anymore, but that's the basic rule I set for myself, and I can see the genius of having a bit of discipline. If I'm very tired and not feeling like it, like it happened last week, then just doing the Anki repetitions is great.
I have noticed the rate at which I'm adding cards is definitely not slowing down, might be increasing a bit lately. I have been keeping statistics on my deck's overall size in bytes, and will continue to do so.
Today I read a text about the Luna 2 probe (they use the french term, "sonda"), which is little known, but was in fact the first object to hit the moon.
Мало се зна да су Совјети пре Американаца стигли на површину Земљиног сателита
После смрти неприкосновеног совјетског вође Јосифа Висарионовича Џугашвилија, познатијег као Стаљин, 5. марта 1953. године уследиле су борбе за наследника. Као победник изашао је Никита Сергејевич Хрушчов, који се обрачунао са супарницима, понајпре свемогућим шефом тајне полиције Лаврентијем Беријом. Стручњаци из иностранства нису веровали да ће Хрушчов да напусти курс који је заузео Стаљин, тим пре што је сматран његовим верним следбеником. Напослетку, преживео је чистке тридесетих година. Зато је и изненађење било веће после чувеног „Тајног реферата” 1956. године којим је одбацио Стаљинов култ личности, а уједно оптужио претходника и за стравичне злочине.
Слични земљотреси спремали су се и на спољнополитичком плану. Прогласио је „миран суживот” са САД. Дивио се америчком председнику Двајту Ајзенхауеру, кога је називао „човеком мира”. И поред тога, као бомба је експлодирала вест да ће септембра 1959. године премијер СССР посетити Вашингтон. Историјска посета, нема шта.
Тог 15. септембра на путу с аеродрома до Беле куће постављен је шпалир. Хрушчов и Ајзенхауер возили су се у отвореном аутомобилу, махали посматрачима. После изјава, домаћин је госта повео у разгледање Беле куће. Испоставило се да Хрушчов није дошао празних руку. Уз осмех, уручио је Ајзенхауеру лоптасти предмет, с урезаним српом и чекићем. Била је то копија исте такве кугле у сонди „Луна 2”. Заправо, прва свемирска летелица која се само дан раније спустила на површину Месеца.
It's pretty interesting, I'd make a small summary but I'm afraid I would ruin the anecdote.
Incidentally, anecdotes are an integral part of slavic society, I'm guessing that's why Krushchov figured he would leave an interesting anecdote to the annals of history.
Actually the story goes further, I will read the rest tomorrow.
Tomorrow is beer fest... I hope I can survive it. I'm going to set a strict moderation beer drinking goal under exceptional circumstances for the days to come.
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Re: Overscore's log
Yesterday was pretty fun, went out to the beerfest (бирфест) in town for some social and we ended up finding a biker's bar and talked with the owner about various politics topics and random stuff. I could understand some of the conversation and pitch in, too.
I did manage to ask something to the effect of "and why did the USA bomb the Chinese embassy anyway??", albeit with horrible messed up grammar.
I had the biggest grin when the word "radionica" came up, because I had just mined that word the same day, or day before.
I couldn't hold my own in conversation, that will need another year of work I think. In German I'm not perfect but I can do this.
But something fun happened. Someone else in my group got told to learn Serbian, and I got praise instead.
American friend said something to the effect of "this guy reads books and all!!"
I felt like an intellectual version of Laoshu50500. I'll be seen in public with "zločin i kazna". Well, okay, getting ahead of myself.
Mass Immersion Approach works. Stop wasting your time and do this.
(https://massimmersionapproach.com)
When you speak in English to someone, it goes to their head;
When you speak in Serbian, it goes to their heart.
Serbian
Going over the rest of the LUNA 2 story. I find this sort of topic pretty interesting, and it seems the slavs in general have a lot of jokes around the cosmos.
„Лунарни орбитални рандеву” – Lunar orbit rendezvous.
I've seen the word "površina" so many times by now I can't ever forget it. It's used in computing to mean the Desktop, or an area generally. The surface of the moon.
At one point soon I wanna make a benchmark for my progress in becoming literate in Serbian, probably I would take a text like the Luna 2 and just highlight in red every word I really have no idea of.
moderate beer drinking goal
I'll give myself a 3.6: not great, not terrible. I definitely feel quite a bit kaputt today, but I didn't have the typical rakija headache, it's mostly just physical soreness. And I was quite sedated because I didn't notice I fucked my small toe yesterday. Derp.
I did manage to ask something to the effect of "and why did the USA bomb the Chinese embassy anyway??", albeit with horrible messed up grammar.
I had the biggest grin when the word "radionica" came up, because I had just mined that word the same day, or day before.
I couldn't hold my own in conversation, that will need another year of work I think. In German I'm not perfect but I can do this.
But something fun happened. Someone else in my group got told to learn Serbian, and I got praise instead.
American friend said something to the effect of "this guy reads books and all!!"
I felt like an intellectual version of Laoshu50500. I'll be seen in public with "zločin i kazna". Well, okay, getting ahead of myself.
Mass Immersion Approach works. Stop wasting your time and do this.
(https://massimmersionapproach.com)
When you speak in English to someone, it goes to their head;
When you speak in Serbian, it goes to their heart.
Serbian
Going over the rest of the LUNA 2 story. I find this sort of topic pretty interesting, and it seems the slavs in general have a lot of jokes around the cosmos.
„Лунарни орбитални рандеву” – Lunar orbit rendezvous.
I've seen the word "površina" so many times by now I can't ever forget it. It's used in computing to mean the Desktop, or an area generally. The surface of the moon.
At one point soon I wanna make a benchmark for my progress in becoming literate in Serbian, probably I would take a text like the Luna 2 and just highlight in red every word I really have no idea of.
moderate beer drinking goal
I'll give myself a 3.6: not great, not terrible. I definitely feel quite a bit kaputt today, but I didn't have the typical rakija headache, it's mostly just physical soreness. And I was quite sedated because I didn't notice I fucked my small toe yesterday. Derp.
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Re: Overscore's log
moderate beer drinking goal
I'll give myself a 3.6 once again: not great, not terrible.
Serbian
I finished reading the Luna 2 text. Now I have the new edition of the Zabavnik (issue 3523) which is filled with interesting topics. I wanna read the section on the "Legend on wheels: Citroen 2 CV" since i grew up around those.
Started paying more attention to the cases ... It's not always clear what is what, for example the instrumental is fairly straightforward, but now i notice it's used in a context i didn't expect it: "izlazi petkom" / comes out on Fridays.
I'll give myself a 3.6 once again: not great, not terrible.
Serbian
I finished reading the Luna 2 text. Now I have the new edition of the Zabavnik (issue 3523) which is filled with interesting topics. I wanna read the section on the "Legend on wheels: Citroen 2 CV" since i grew up around those.
Started paying more attention to the cases ... It's not always clear what is what, for example the instrumental is fairly straightforward, but now i notice it's used in a context i didn't expect it: "izlazi petkom" / comes out on Fridays.
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Re: Overscore's log
Serbian
Normal. I've been reading a lot of Wikipedia articles this week and I'm definitely starting to have an easier time understanding the language. I've been reading about Christianity and animals and all sorts of topics.
I found out that Croatia has their equivalent of the Zabavnik called the Vijenac (the wreath) and i'd love to read some of them, but there's no way i can get my hands on issues i think.
I keep learning words in English even now, this time it was "Wreath" /ɹiːθ/ that has the meaning of either a kind of crown, or a heraldic symbol thingy. Come to think of it, both the Croatian and Serbian flags (obe zastave) have a giant Venac on it. Venci everywhere.
I'm blazing trails with the SRS, up to 370 odd cards now. There's nothing too much I want to change in my method, it's working just great. I will have a problem later on because my oral comprehension is very low, and I have no idea about the tonal system, but this language is so hard I'm not concerned with it yet. What am I gonna do with a limited vocabulary, order burek with perfection? It can wait, I don't have to speak at all. A lot of people here (I mean in srbija not this forum) try to test me, but i find it very annoying to be poked in such a manner. I basically stopped listening to anybody here (I mean in srbija not this forum) giving advice with language; actually it's the same bad advice all over the damn world, and this has to change.
But slavic languages are seriously hardcore difficult, at times i wonder if i'm going to fry my brain and wake up being the kind of people that mumble medieval Georgian in the autobus.
That building in the middle is called the "vojske dom" and was built in the 1930's to house international dignitaries and various meetups.
Normal. I've been reading a lot of Wikipedia articles this week and I'm definitely starting to have an easier time understanding the language. I've been reading about Christianity and animals and all sorts of topics.
I found out that Croatia has their equivalent of the Zabavnik called the Vijenac (the wreath) and i'd love to read some of them, but there's no way i can get my hands on issues i think.
I keep learning words in English even now, this time it was "Wreath" /ɹiːθ/ that has the meaning of either a kind of crown, or a heraldic symbol thingy. Come to think of it, both the Croatian and Serbian flags (obe zastave) have a giant Venac on it. Venci everywhere.
I'm blazing trails with the SRS, up to 370 odd cards now. There's nothing too much I want to change in my method, it's working just great. I will have a problem later on because my oral comprehension is very low, and I have no idea about the tonal system, but this language is so hard I'm not concerned with it yet. What am I gonna do with a limited vocabulary, order burek with perfection? It can wait, I don't have to speak at all. A lot of people here (I mean in srbija not this forum) try to test me, but i find it very annoying to be poked in such a manner. I basically stopped listening to anybody here (I mean in srbija not this forum) giving advice with language; actually it's the same bad advice all over the damn world, and this has to change.
But slavic languages are seriously hardcore difficult, at times i wonder if i'm going to fry my brain and wake up being the kind of people that mumble medieval Georgian in the autobus.
That building in the middle is called the "vojske dom" and was built in the 1930's to house international dignitaries and various meetups.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Overscore's log
Serbian
Pretty good. I have 400 cards in Anki now! Let's keep going this way.
Pretty good. I have 400 cards in Anki now! Let's keep going this way.
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Re: Overscore's log
I've been doing more listening today (in Serbian + in French). Videos about history. To say people miss Yugoslavia is quite the understatement.
I've been feeling the temptation to experiment with neighboring languages lately, particularly Hungary is fascinating, they are balkan finns in a way. Coming from a very linguistically poor area (Canada) it's like a buffet of culture and languages over here, and it's great, but at the same time I don't want to spread myself too thin. Ancient Greek, Modern Greek, Hungarian, Romanian, Serbian, there's enough for 5 lifetimes of study . Or maybe just 2 at the rate at which I am going.
Been listening to a youtube channel "Vive L'Europe" in French language. I can understand everything of course, but it's refreshing to listen to as compared to the intellectual graveyard that is the Quebec media.
I've been feeling the temptation to experiment with neighboring languages lately, particularly Hungary is fascinating, they are balkan finns in a way. Coming from a very linguistically poor area (Canada) it's like a buffet of culture and languages over here, and it's great, but at the same time I don't want to spread myself too thin. Ancient Greek, Modern Greek, Hungarian, Romanian, Serbian, there's enough for 5 lifetimes of study . Or maybe just 2 at the rate at which I am going.
Been listening to a youtube channel "Vive L'Europe" in French language. I can understand everything of course, but it's refreshing to listen to as compared to the intellectual graveyard that is the Quebec media.
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Re: Overscore's log
Thanks for the reference to Vive L'Europe. I've been resting my French for a few weeks, but I want to build up a small store of things to return to. "Yugoalavia" sounds like an interesting adventure.
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Re: Overscore's log
overscore wrote:Normal. I've been reading a lot of Wikipedia articles this week and I'm definitely starting to have an easier time understanding the language. I've been reading about Christianity and animals and all sorts of topics.
I found out that Croatia has their equivalent of the Zabavnik called the Vijenac (the wreath) and i'd love to read some of them, but there's no way i can get my hands on issues i think.
I keep learning words in English even now, this time it was "Wreath" /ɹiːθ/ that has the meaning of either a kind of crown, or a heraldic symbol thingy. Come to think of it, both the Croatian and Serbian flags (obe zastave) have a giant Venac on it. Venci everywhere.
vijenac/venac is a quite normal word, Bujas dictionary gives Eng equivalents garland, festoon, cornice (in architecture), but also string (of garlic, onions, peppers), basically things arranged in a circular or semi-circular shape. There's also famous Gorski vijenac -- vijenac/venac can be a metaphor for a collection of stories or poems.
A magazine issued by Matica hrvatska is called Vijenac.
However, Croatian flag doesn't have it. Such things were common in the socialist era, I think after the Soviet coat of arms. Likely it all goes back to this or this.
It's never confused with kruna (crown), which is featured on the Serbian flag, and there's a sort of crown on the Croatian flag.
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Check Easy Croatian (very useful for Bosnian, Montenegrin and Serbian as well)
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Re: Overscore's log
Daniel N. wrote:overscore wrote:Normal. I've been reading a lot of Wikipedia articles this week and I'm definitely starting to have an easier time understanding the language. I've been reading about Christianity and animals and all sorts of topics.
I found out that Croatia has their equivalent of the Zabavnik called the Vijenac (the wreath) and i'd love to read some of them, but there's no way i can get my hands on issues i think.
I keep learning words in English even now, this time it was "Wreath" /ɹiːθ/ that has the meaning of either a kind of crown, or a heraldic symbol thingy. Come to think of it, both the Croatian and Serbian flags (obe zastave) have a giant Venac on it. Venci everywhere.
vijenac/venac is a quite normal word, Bujas dictionary gives Eng equivalents garland, festoon, cornice (in architecture), but also string (of garlic, onions, peppers), basically things arranged in a circular or semi-circular shape. There's also famous Gorski vijenac -- vijenac/venac can be a metaphor for a collection of stories or poems.
A magazine issued by Matica hrvatska is called Vijenac.
However, Croatian flag doesn't have it. Such things were common in the socialist era, I think after the Soviet coat of arms. Likely it all goes back to this or this.
It's never confused with kruna (crown), which is featured on the Serbian flag, and there's a sort of crown on the Croatian flag.
Thanks for the contribution. I must admit I'm not sure what the distinctions are. In French all of these are called the same: 'couronne' without much distinction. Couronne de fleurs, couronne royale. etc.
But your comment makes it all a bit clearer.
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