My road to CPE

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iguanamon
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
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Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
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Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby iguanamon » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:47 am

Corrections can help us to see where we've got work to do. The quality of corrections is another matter. Sometimes corrections can be more about style than about correct usage. I don't like correcting here on the forum because it takes a lot of work. First, there's trying to figure out what the person is trying to say. Next comes trying to make the grammar fit. Then trying to explain to the learner why a correction was made. I'm just a native speaker. I'm not a trained instructor of English as a second language, so it can be difficult and time consuming for me to do.

I have managed to learn some languages to a high level, but far from perfection. What I've found that works for me is to make the language a part of my life. I read a lot in my languages every day. I listen a lot every day. I don't speak as often as I would like. Most of us here live far from places where our target languages are spoken. Still, when an opportunity arises for me to speak, I take advantage of it. My writing is pretty much limited to twitter and email for me these days. I used to write more in Spanish and Portuguese when I was actively learning.

In addition to all the good advice offered here, mine would be to do the following: Read more. Read a lot. Listen more. Listen a lot. Try to speak whenever you have the opportunity. The main thing is not to "get ahead of yourself". In other words, sometimes we have to accept that we may not be able to express ourselves as well as we can in our native language when we are speaking our second languages. This means that we need to find simpler ways of saying the same thing because we lack the structures or fine points of vocabulary needed to do that. It doesn't mean that we can't still express ourselves.

C1 and C2 levels do not mean perfection. It takes time to get a feel for the language and what sounds and feels right in a second language. The thing is it takes a lot of time. It can take more time than many people believe or are willing to accept. Learning a language can be a humbling experience. I know this from experience. Knowing what you want to say but not having it come out right in writing or speech can be quite frustrating. My Portuguese tutor used to tell me to slow down and not try to get ahead of myself by trying to express something I couldn't yet do. There's a lot to be said for mastering the basics and then building upon a solid base.

Learning a language on one's own means that sometimes, in the rush to "get there" (arrive at our desired destination of a high level), that we miss or skip over some of the little things in the process. These little things (those annoying grammar points that we may skip over in our rushing) can then build and accumulate over time until they become big things. Then, at this point, they can no longer be ignored.

So, the first step is acceptance. The second is regular exposure to native media, written and audio. The third is to master the little things and gradually build upon them. The more you listen and read, the more you will develop a "feel" for what's right. If you want to write about cinema, read about cinema. Listen to discussions about cinema. Read a lot and listen a lot to people writing and talking about cinema. If you want to write a book review, read book reviews or listen to them on youtube. If you want to advocate for or against a position, read or listen to people advocating for or against a position. Try to read and listen to educated native-speakers when learning. Colloquial language can always be picked up once the basics are down pat.

I have tremendous respect for our non-native speakers of English here, like Cavesa, Serpent, Jeff and Iversen. Their level of English is excellent, but they still make tiny mistakes every now and then that give them away as non native-speakers and that's OK. Most of us wish our L2's were as good as their level in English. What they do differently (both here and elsewhere) than, perhaps, what you (and I) do here, I think, is their level of engagement with their L2, English. They consume media every day. They write often here and elsewhere in English. English is a part of their life in a meaningful way. I follow some of our members on Twitter and see multiple posts from them on a daily basis in English and other languages. Practice makes perfect is true, but you have to have a good base model first to build upon it. It's easy to get frustrated. You have to be humble enough to accept that it takes time and try not to let frustration overwhelm you. It's a difficult balance but an achievable one. Above all, Olga, don't get down on yourself. As we say in English, "Rome wasn't built in a day". Good luck!
Last edited by iguanamon on Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ольга
Green Belt
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Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby Ольга » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:25 am

Thank you very much, guys!
It is such a nice surprise to receive so many comments, corrections, and tips of advice!
And it is really encouraging, it helps me to move forward!
iguanamon, Xmmm, thank you so much!
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aokoye
Black Belt - 1st Dan
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Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby aokoye » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:22 am

Your friend definitely missed some corrections and I agree with all but one of them. I wouldn't have corrected your works (vs work). I might post a much more thorough list of corrections later as it's late and I'm tired. That said the most frequent/glaring ones involved not including "and"
Why would I choose the American film director, when we have lots of distinguished Russian, German, French, Italian directors and from other countries?
(the correction added in an "and" before "Italian".
Not being consistent with using, or not using, the Oxford comma
Commas that shouldn't exist:
His career thrives mostly because he shoots lots of entertaining, showy, and gaudy films, and many people consider him as another creator of frivolous movies.

You don't need that comma because there are only two clauses after "because"
English doesn't use angle brackets in the way that you used them with the movie titles. Actually they aren't used in English at all (they are, however, used in math and computer languages).
Issues with number. The conjugation one was already mentioned by your friend however they didn't catch
Several of them are the most remarkable
"This movie was the most remarkable" would be grammatical because there's agreement with number as would, "Several of them are remarkable" - it's that "the" that's the problem. Most also doesn't feel good but that doesn't have to do with number I don't think.
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aokoye
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Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby aokoye » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:29 am

Oh also, I know a number very proficient English language learners who got a lot out of Longman Student Grammar of Spoken and Written English. If you use it make sure to get the workbook as well. It was the textbook for my English grammar class and I am, generally speaking, a fan of it. I'm coming at it from the perspective of an L1 English speaker but, again, I know several people who are L2 speakers who really liked the book.
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Prefered gender pronouns: Masculine

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tarvos
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Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby tarvos » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:34 am

LesRonces wrote:
tarvos wrote:From my point of view and in my opinion are pretty much the same thing. However, the first implies a type of distance or a sort of helicopter view of the situation, and is less strong.

From my point of view/The way I look at it/From my perspective is much less strong than "I think that""In my opinion""I maintain that..."

I disagree. Those phrases and their strength are determined entirely by what you follow them with. Someone defending an issue close to their hearts can very much precede a very strong, heated opinion with 'The way i look at it...'

They all mean exactly the same thing, in reality.

To the OP - i agree that your entire essay can be re-written to sound better but communication-wise it's fine - it works, it's easy to understand. It needs a fair few creases ironing out though but nothing major. It just needs polishing in my opinion.


You could - but it feels less likely a collocation to me
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Ani
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Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby Ani » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:48 am

iguanamon wrote:


You are the master of pep talks. I love reading them wherever I find them all over the forum and they give me encouragement every time :)
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But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Ольга
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Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby Ольга » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:44 pm

Thank you, guys!
I'm so grateful to you!
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Words: 4732 / 50000

Ольга
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Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby Ольга » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:42 pm

Thank God, I managed to enter the forum :D
I have lots of news.
I am experimenting with British Council Courses.
I am using "Road to IELTS" (a course from British Council) http://www.ieltspractice.com/ . It gives a minimal feedback, but provides a clear picture of the test's conditions, rules, and requirements.
Besides, I have been taught by my teacher of English and my friend-native speaker (and I welcome language exchange).
What is more, I am learning web-design, using American courses https://teamtreehouse.com/ . There're lots of short pieces of video in English and some tasks for coding a website with an instant check. I don't think it is really useful for improving my English, but I am used to finishing all my tasks which I started and I am going to practice it for one month. Coding may be useful as well and knowing of technical terms is essential.
Furthermore, I am learning Punctuation. I am using http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/marks/marks.htm and I am going to use http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation_rules.asp (but, unfortunately, it is paid, so, I'll use when I have some additional budget).
I have finished reading "Gone with the Wind" by Margaret Mitchell, the first volume. 500 pages of pure pleasure! I have started reading the second volume. I'll continue reading the second volume soon.
I am going to read "Committed" by Elizabeth Gilbert (from the very beginning, Listening+Reading).
I have bought a textbook in Practical Phonetics by the Moscow State Linguistic University. There are lots of explanations of active and passive organs of speech positions, how to pronounce consonants (voiced, voiceless), vowels, as well as stress, intonation, linking, accommodation and assimilation. I am reading slowly and gradually, memorizing valuable pieces of information.
I write essays in English and send my English native friend to check from time to time. As soon as he checks, I am accurately rewriting the essays in handwriting :)
I have ordered two books of Charles Dickens in English because I do love Dickens. I want to start reading them in September.
I am going to learn lots of phrasal verbs and collocations by heart, but my textbook with phrasal verbs "Work on your Phrasal verbs" https://collins.co.uk/product/978000746 ... s%3A+B1-C2 has not been sent to me yet.
I am writing my language Bullet Journal and I think it is a really cool thing.
Besides, I go to a gym and listen to an audiobook during running on the treadmill. It is so captivating!
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Output Challenge 2018
Hours of Recorded Speech: 0 / 50
Words: 4732 / 50000

Ольга
Green Belt
Posts: 261
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Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby Ольга » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:31 pm

I have come to the conclusion that I like to play the language, but not to learn it!
I hate textbooks because I am used to the thought that I must do at least 50 exercises, otherwise it is not a good job!
Usually, I push myself forward, doing lots of activity for 1 month (reading/writing/speaking/listening a lot) and then I have a burnt out.
Guys, how do you balance your learning?
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Output Challenge 2018
Hours of Recorded Speech: 0 / 50
Words: 4732 / 50000

rfnsoares
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Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby rfnsoares » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:38 pm

Well, this is a difficult question. i'm also trying to achieve a higher level in English. I usually read a lot. I read everything especially novels and newspapers. I listen a lot from youtube videos to podcasts. I consider myself at an advanced level at these two skills, but when it comes to speaking and writing my level is much much lower. When I'm reading I rarely have to search for a word in the dictionary and when I'm listening I virtually understand every single word.
What am I doing to improving my writing and speaking? Almost nothing :oops: :oops:
I occasionally book an italki session, once a month or so. Also I sometimes chat on Italki when someone writes me a message.
Now, what should I be doing? I should start a log here, but I've been postponing it. :oops:
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