My road to CPE

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
Ольга
Green Belt
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:42 am
Languages: English, French, German, Greek, Portuguese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6206
x 188

My road to CPE

Postby Ольга » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:41 pm

This topic is dedicated my preparation for CPE and the Output Challenge 2018.

It is my beautiful plan of preparation for CPE (created 09.01.2018):
January: Use of English and Reading
Lexical Cloze, Open Cloze, Word Formation, Transformations, Multiple Choice Text, Gapped Text, Multiple Matching.

February: Listening
Multiple Choice, Sentence Completion, Multiple Choice, Multiple Matching.

March: Use of English and Reading
Lexical Cloze, Open Cloze, Word Formation, Transformations, Multiple Choice Text, Gapped Text, Multiple Matching.

April: Listening
Multiple Choice, Sentence Completion, Multiple Choice, Multiple Matching.

May: Use of English and Reading
Lexical Cloze, Open Cloze, Word Formation, Transformations, Multiple Choice Text, Gapped Text, Multiple Matching.

June: Writing and Speaking
Interview, 2-way conversation, Long Turn, Essay, Article, Letter, Report, Review.

July: Writing and Speaking
Interview, 2-way conversation, Long Turn, Essay, Article, Letter, Report, Review.

August: Writing and Speaking
Interview, 2-way conversation, Long Turn, Essay, Article, Letter, Report, Review.

September: Use of English and Reading
Lexical Cloze, Open Cloze, Word Formation, Transformations, Multiple Choice Text, Gapped Text, Multiple Matching.


To be continued.
Last edited by Ольга on Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
0 x
Output Challenge 2018
Hours of Recorded Speech: 0 / 50
Words: 4732 / 50000

Ольга
Green Belt
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:42 am
Languages: English, French, German, Greek, Portuguese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6206
x 188

Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby Ольга » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:04 pm

Does anybody know how to work on a native's corrections?
How to train the right variant and understand why my variant is not right?
0 x
Output Challenge 2018
Hours of Recorded Speech: 0 / 50
Words: 4732 / 50000

aaleks
Blue Belt
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:04 pm
Location: Russia
Languages: Russian (N)
English (?)
Italian (beginner)
German (false beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6724
x 1273

Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby aaleks » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:40 pm

My favourite movies, which I watched when I was a youngster, [differs –you should have “differ” here because you are talking about movies not one movie] greatly.

Well, I think, this correction is a quite obvious :)
and this:
All in all, it seems to me that such a director as him is the [expert – ok but seems slightly obscure in this context also consider “master”] of his work.

It's like in Russian "эксперт своего дела" vs "мастер своего дела". The first sounds strange in both languages, I guess.
1 x

Ольга
Green Belt
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:42 am
Languages: English, French, German, Greek, Portuguese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6206
x 188

Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby Ольга » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:48 pm

aaleks wrote:
My favourite movies, which I watched when I was a youngster, [differs –you should have “differ” here because you are talking about movies not one movie] greatly.

Well, I think, this correction is a quite obvious :)
and this:
All in all, it seems to me that such a director as him is the [expert – ok but seems slightly obscure in this context also consider “master”] of his work.

It's like in Russian "эксперт своего дела" vs "мастер своего дела". The first sounds strange in both languages, I guess.

Yes, this is understandable, what about other things?
0 x
Output Challenge 2018
Hours of Recorded Speech: 0 / 50
Words: 4732 / 50000

Cavesa
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3434
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), English (C1), French (C2), Spanish (intermediate), German (somewhere on the path), Italian (passive advanced, active basic)
x 10132

Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby Cavesa » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:26 pm

I hope you won't find it too daring, if I try to give you some input on some of the corrections. I am not native and know only very little of Russian, but I know what it is to struggle with writing, and I think I can see some of the troubles. And I wonder what would your native do, if use of the word "obscure" suddenly became illegal :-D

There is no doubt in my mind that every person has their [optional consider adding “own”] favourite book, film, and actor or actress. However, few would be able to surely say who their favourite film director is.
The problem here might be свой and его́ distinction, we have it in Czech too. "Their own" is the most precise equivalent of svůj or свой, especially when you are putting emphasis on it.

Nowadays, with a great variety of movies and series which are released [month by month – ok but obscure here consider “every month”], it is extremely difficult to opt for something.

I think what your native is trying to say is the fact that month by month, or day by day, or year by year, carries a different emotion than daily, monthy, every day, every month. The later options are more neutral, just descriptions. I would say month by month or day by day evoke some boring hardships you need to struggle against day by day.

Natives, am I wrong here?

And I wonder, wouldn't "which are being released" be appropriate here? Now I am trully asking, not suggesting.

Why would I choose the American film director, when we have lots of distinguished Russian, German, French, and Italian directors [and – ok but here consider “as well as”] those from other countries? Why do I adore him and his [works – ok but “works” is a bit obscure but correct. Consider “work”]?

I think there are more options here. To the first part: either you can use the "as well as those from other countries", or perhaps shorter and less repetitive would be "Why would I choose the American film director, when we have lots of distinguished ones from Russia, Germany, France, Italy, and other countries?

Work vs. Works: French equivalents. ses oeuvres=his works, son travail=his work. Both should be correct here, each is slightly different.

First of all, Steven Spielberg [works in the most different fields – ok but I’m not sure how accurate/natural that is here. Consider “directs films of different genres”. To me, if someone works in different fields it might mean for example they are an actor, director, scriptwriter and dancer, or do lots of things. ].
I agree that "works in the most different fields" seems to refer more to having various jobs. And "the most different" makes me think of Spielberg being a director, a surgeon, and a plumber. :-) I would also use the word "various" instead of different. This link looks good: https://english.stackexchange.com/quest ... -different I would say "different" is about comparing stuff. "Various" is about a heterogenous group.

His career thrives mostly because he shoots lots of entertaining, showy, and gaudy films, [and - correct however as you are about to change the tone (from praising him to criticising him) I think it would be better if you replaced it with “however”] many people consider him as [consider adding “just” here for effect] another creator of frivolous movies. However, Spielberg managed to shoot many serious, thoughtful pictures.
yes, I agree however would be better than and. You could also consider spliting the long sentence in two "....and gaudy films. However..." and one of the "however" in this part could be changed for "nevertheless", which is slightly more formal, and you'd avoid repeating the word.

The film director [could succeed – correct but consider replacing both words with “succeeded”] in so many [fields – see above about fields. Consider replacing with “genres”] that I cannot doubt [in –remove this] his talent. [From my point of view – ok but I prefer “In my opinion”], Spielberg is the master of cinema art. The obvious conclusion to be drawn is that Steven Spielberg is the film director, whose movies I eagerly watch. All in all, it seems to me that such a director as him is the [expert – ok but seems slightly obscure in this context also consider “master”] of his work. He may obviously be considered as a keen specialist in his area. I adore, respect and love him and his pictures.
I agree about succeeded and doubt. Why are you probably being recommended "in my opinion": I think it is the position you are looking at him and his carreer from. You are a fan, not a pro. I would say "point of view" would be more appropriate from an actor, from another director, from a journalist. Am I correct, natives?

I hope some of this was helpful. I know how frustrating it is to get horrible feedback. One of the reasons why I am unlikely to ever write anything more than a fb post in Czech without being forced is exactly this. I always remember the big red "Style!!!!" on my high school works, which came without any explanation or advice.

Edit:corrected a typo
Last edited by Cavesa on Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2 x

aaleks
Blue Belt
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:04 pm
Location: Russia
Languages: Russian (N)
English (?)
Italian (beginner)
German (false beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6724
x 1273

Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby aaleks » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:06 pm

I'm definitely not a native :) and my level isn't even C1, so I might be wrong but I think that there's some misunderstanding about this part of text:

His career thrives mostly because he shoots lots of entertaining, showy, and gaudy films, and many people consider him as another creator of frivolous movies. However, Spielberg managed to shoot many serious, thoughtful pictures.


To me the replacing 'and' with 'however' in the first sentence looks wrong, because the part after 'and' doesn't contradict the previous part of sentence but continues the same thought. Probably there could be used 'thus', 'therefore' or the like?
But it's just my non-native-not-advanced opinion, please take it with a grain of salt :)
1 x

User avatar
tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: Dark paradise
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Speak well: ES, DE, RU, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), FI, BG, EUS
Dabbling in: Malay
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
x 4747
Contact:

Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby tarvos » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:19 pm

I think he missed a few corrections. I also think you're trying to produce texts too literally, by translating it from Russian. I know that in Russian it's normal to сомневаться в чем-либо, but in English we doubt things, without a preposition. These are things that simply are that way. Why don't you use a preposition in English in this case? Because you don't, end of story. There is no reason why we don't do so, we simply don't, period.

I would rewrite almost the entirety of your text. There's a whole lot of grammar in there that just doesn't work the way you supposed it did, and tenses remain a big issue. Not so much tense formation as tense usage, which is a completely different ball game (same way I still screw up aspect at times after all these years).

If you want to work on his corrections, you should understand two things:

a) a lot of tense usage has rules, but they can be subtle nuances and hard to render. Sometimes, your Russian thought doesn't differentiate between two options when English does. Sometimes, Russian does a grammar thing English doesn't (for example, English moves tense usage in reported speech back a tense).

He said that he would do it.
Он сказал, что он это будет делать.

Same sentence, different tense. I can give you another 300 of these examples where Russian and English don't coincide.

b) Sometimes, you translate a word directly from Russian using the first option in the dictionary, when another one would be more suitable. Words can be translated in different ways and sometimes another phrase is more natural in English.
4 x
Ich stehe zwischen zwei Welten, bin in keiner daheim und habe es infolgedessen ein wenig schwer.
Preferred pronouns: feminine.

User avatar
tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: Dark paradise
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Speak well: ES, DE, RU, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), FI, BG, EUS
Dabbling in: Malay
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
x 4747
Contact:

Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby tarvos » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:27 pm

From my point of view and in my opinion are pretty much the same thing. However, the first implies a type of distance or a sort of helicopter view of the situation, and is less strong.

From my point of view/The way I look at it/From my perspective is much less strong than "I think that""In my opinion""I maintain that..."

I would also never use the word "consider" with "as". I would just say "He's considered a great director."
1 x
Ich stehe zwischen zwei Welten, bin in keiner daheim und habe es infolgedessen ein wenig schwer.
Preferred pronouns: feminine.

User avatar
LesRonces
Green Belt
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 7:48 am
Languages: FR B1¾
x 539

Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby LesRonces » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:01 pm

tarvos wrote:From my point of view and in my opinion are pretty much the same thing. However, the first implies a type of distance or a sort of helicopter view of the situation, and is less strong.

From my point of view/The way I look at it/From my perspective is much less strong than "I think that""In my opinion""I maintain that..."

I disagree. Those phrases and their strength are determined entirely by what you follow them with. Someone defending an issue close to their hearts can very much precede a very strong, heated opinion with 'The way i look at it...'

They all mean exactly the same thing, in reality.

To the OP - i agree that your entire essay can be re-written to sound better but communication-wise it's fine - it works, it's easy to understand. It needs a fair few creases ironing out though but nothing major. It just needs polishing in my opinion.
1 x

User avatar
Ani
Brown Belt
Posts: 1423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:58 am
Location: Alaska
Languages: English (N), speaks French, Russian & Icelandic (beginner)
x 3704
Contact:

Re: English: All skills. How to reach C2.

Postby Ani » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:04 pm

Cavesa's post is excellent. I hope someday I understanding understand the nuances of French as well as she understands English :)

aaleks wrote:I'm definitely not a native :) and my level isn't even C1, so I might be wrong but I think that there's some misunderstanding about this part of text:

His career thrives mostly because he shoots lots of entertaining, showy, and gaudy films, and many people consider him as another creator of frivolous movies. However, Spielberg managed to shoot many serious, thoughtful pictures.


To me the replacing 'and' with 'however' in the first sentence looks wrong, because the part after 'and' doesn't contradict the previous part of sentence but continues the same thought. Probably there could be used 'thus', 'therefore' or the like?
But it's just my non-native-not-advanced opinion, please take it with a grain of salt :)


Yup something funky here. You can't use however twice in such close succession so the suggested correction doesn't make sense to me. The problem is that
and many people consider him as another creator of frivolous movies is enough of a change in thought to warrant a new sentence.
When you have a list of items "books, pencils, and backpacks" you can't follow that with another and used as a conjunction. It forms a run-on sentence. You need to end the sentence and start over with Many people...
After that you can leave out the way it is with However starting the next sentence, but since they are so closely related, stylistically, I'd combine them. Many people consider..., however...

Aaleks says it is not a contradiction, which is true, but you'd only use "thus" if it were a conclusion that followed from the fact that he made a variety of movies. If you meant it that way, it doesn't come through the text. It looks like you were admiring the variety of movies he made, then admitting that some people think that is frivolous, and then addressing that criticism with the sentence that starts with However.

Sorry for lack of formatting. I'm on my cell phone.
1 x
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest