An Opsimath's Log: DA, LA, NL, FR

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Elsa Maria
Blue Belt
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:20 am
Location: USA
Languages: English (N), Intermediate Danish.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6009
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Re: Elsa Maria's Log: Danish +

Postby Elsa Maria » Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:38 pm

I'll talk through my Danish reading a little bit. I only have the Danish edition for all of these.

CURRENT READS

alfabet by Inger Christensen (1981)

A English translation exists, but I do not have access to it. Maybe when I am finished with this book of poetry, I will look at the translation. Maybe!

This is a 75 page volume of poetry, and it is humbling. It looks simple, but there are SO MANY unknown words. Mostly concrete nouns. Some of them are birds and plants that I barely know in my native language. And because there are passages that are essentially lists of nouns, there really is little context for guessing.

But I am happy to reading a work like this, and I am really having a lot of joy working my way through it.

What I am doing:

I am taking it one section at a time and looking up all unknown words.
Because it is based on the Fibonacci sequence, there is a lot of repetition. Repetition is good :)
After I have looked up all the words, I read the section like a poem, not like a translation exercise. I keep at that section until I can read it like a poem. Then I move to the next section. The length of a section varies.

I keep looping through the audiobook, too. I start at the beginning and listen just beyond where I am in the print copy.

Book 4 of the Moomins by Tove Jansson (Mumifars erindringsbog) (1950)
I love reading these books. And there is a lot of rich vocabulary, particularly of nature.
An English translation exists, but I don't need it.


RECENT READS

Den som blinker er bange for døden by Knud Romer. (2006)
Completed: January 2021
Not translated into English.

A standard, modern novel that tells the story of a boy growing up with a Danish father and a German mother. It loosely falls under the category of literary fiction (skønlitteratur). Not my favorite book, but it was OK.

I found it relatively easy to follow but still with plenty of new words. Some of the dialogue is in German, which I don't know at all. I presume that it is basic German that most Danes would handle easily, because translations were only provided for long letters.

I think I can read most modern Danish novels now without too much trouble, unless the style is heavily postmodern. There are always a lot of unknown words, and I am slow. But I am not lost.

Ordet by Kaj Munk. (1932)
Completed: December 2019
Not translated into English.
Part of the Kulturcanon (Culture Canon)

This was my first time reading a play, and the first time I have read something with the old spellings. I think I should read more plays! Dialogue is easier to follow than descriptive prose. I really enjoyed reading this, and I began to learn about both the philosophies of N.F.S. Grundtivig about the teachings of the Indre Mission.
8 x
Corrections are always welcome.

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Elsa Maria
Blue Belt
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:20 am
Location: USA
Languages: English (N), Intermediate Danish.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6009
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Re: Elsa Maria's Log: Danish + (PT, LA, NL, NO)

Postby Elsa Maria » Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:53 am

I signed up for the 6WC for Portuguese, and I will be sticking with European Portuguese.
I'm starting from a base of nearly nothing, and I am so excited.

Background:
I tried the 6WC challenge once before with Portuguese, but only put in 4h43min, and that was over a year ago. I put in 4h26 minutes in January. So let's round it off and say I am starting with 10 hours of study. I don't know how much help it will be, but I know a wee bit of Spanish and a little bit of Latin.

Starting Resources:
Linguaphone course
Practice Portuguese app
Pimsleur
Basic Portuguese: A Grammar and Workbook (Routledge)
7 x
Corrections are always welcome.

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PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3229
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
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Re: Elsa Maria's Log: Danish + (PT, LA, NL, NO)

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:45 am

Elsa Maria wrote:I signed up for the 6WC for Portuguese, and I will be sticking with European Portuguese.
I'm starting from a base of nearly nothing, and I am so excited.

Background:
I tried the 6WC challenge once before with Portuguese, but only put in 4h43min, and that was over a year ago. I put in 4h26 minutes in January. So let's round it off and say I am starting with 10 hours of study. I don't know how much help it will be, but I know a wee bit of Spanish and a little bit of Latin.

Starting Resources:
Linguaphone course
Practice Portuguese app
Pimsleur
Basic Portuguese: A Grammar and Workbook (Routledge)


Good luck with your new language Elsa Maria! ;)
1 x

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Elsa Maria
Blue Belt
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:20 am
Location: USA
Languages: English (N), Intermediate Danish.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6009
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Contact:

Re: Elsa Maria's Log: Danish + (PT, LA, NL, NO)

Postby Elsa Maria » Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:31 pm

Thank you, Peter M. I appreciate that.

--
Here are January's stats. I use ATracker Pro.

TOTAL: 50h 42min

Danish: 22h 20min
Always and forever...

Dutch: 14h 26min
I didn't quite finish my grammar course by the 1st of February. But almost!

Latin: 8h 01min
I'll probably never get out of textbook Latin.

Norwegian: 0h 43 min
Hmm. I'm still on the fence about proceeding with Norwegian. If it were easier to get books in Norwegian, I think I would be more motivated. But I do have a few books that I have not even read, so I shouldn't be whining. And I've discovered the podcast Lær Norsk Nå, which I really like.
7 x
Corrections are always welcome.

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tungemål
Blue Belt
Posts: 947
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:56 pm
Location: Norway
Languages: Norwegian (N)
English, German, Spanish, Japanese, Dutch, Polish
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17672
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Re: Elsa Maria's Log: Danish + (PT, LA, NL, NO)

Postby tungemål » Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:57 am

Elsa Maria wrote:Norwegian: 0h 43 min
Hmm. I'm still on the fence about proceeding with Norwegian. If it were easier to get books in Norwegian, I think I would be more motivated. But I do have a few books that I have not even read, so I shouldn't be whining. And I've discovered the podcast Lær Norsk Nå, which I really like.


Wow, studying both Danish and Norwegian. That has got to be confusing. But, if you can already read Danish, it should be easy to read Norwegian. There are only a handful of words and false friends you need to learn. If you want e-books there is this site: https://ebok.no/ where you can buy Norwegian books in Kindle format.
5 x

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Elsa Maria
Blue Belt
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:20 am
Location: USA
Languages: English (N), Intermediate Danish.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6009
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Re: Elsa Maria's Log: Danish + (PT, LA, NL, NO)

Postby Elsa Maria » Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:34 pm

tungemål wrote:
Wow, studying both Danish and Norwegian. That has got to be confusing. But, if you can already read Danish, it should be easy to read Norwegian. There are only a handful of words and false friends you need to learn. If you want e-books there is this site: https://ebok.no/ where you can buy Norwegian books in Kindle format.

Thanks for that website! You really made my day. I am very glad to know that I just had just not yet been looking in the right place.

I can read Danish reasonably well (whatever that means), which is why I feel ready for books after only minimal study. There are a lot of things I about Norwegian that I need to learn, and I have a textbook to read through. But I think I might learn best by comparing Danish and Norwegian texts. While Norwegian has to stay low on my priority list right now, I think my Danish is solid enough to give it a go whenever I decide to make the time for it. I can make my way around Norwegian websites with minimal or no problems.
4 x
Corrections are always welcome.

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PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3229
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
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Re: Elsa Maria's Log: Danish + (PT, LA, NL, NO)

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:07 pm

Elsa Maria wrote:
tungemål wrote:
Wow, studying both Danish and Norwegian. That has got to be confusing. But, if you can already read Danish, it should be easy to read Norwegian. There are only a handful of words and false friends you need to learn. If you want e-books there is this site: https://ebok.no/ where you can buy Norwegian books in Kindle format.

Thanks for that website! You really made my day. I am very glad to know that I just had just not yet been looking in the right place.

I can read Danish reasonably well (whatever that means), which is why I feel ready for books after only minimal study. There are a lot of things I about Norwegian that I need to learn, and I have a textbook to read through. But I think I might learn best by comparing Danish and Norwegian texts. While Norwegian has to stay low on my priority list right now, I think my Danish is solid enough to give it a go whenever I decide to make the time for it. I can make my way around Norwegian websites with minimal or no problems.


OOoh a Norwegian book resource. I'll take anything even though I prefer actual real paper, cheers tungemål ;)

Out of curiosity, and I can probably just search this, but why not ask here as it was your log Elsa Maria that made me wonder this... Does Danish also have a tonal system like Norwegian and Swedish? Are the tones similar-ish?
1 x

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jeff_lindqvist
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3135
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:52 pm
Languages: sv, en
de, es
ga, eo
---
fi, yue, ro, tp, cy, kw, pt, sk
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2773
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Re: Elsa Maria's Log: Danish + (PT, LA, NL, NO)

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:24 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:Out of curiosity, and I can probably just search this, but why not ask here as it was your log Elsa Maria that made me wonder
this... Does Danish also have a tonal system like Norwegian and Swedish? Are the tones similar-ish?


First of all, it is usually said that the stød in Danish somewhat corresponds to the tonal system of Norwegian and Swedish. (But personally, I think this explanation mostly makes sense for minimal pairs.)

As for a tonal system, I'd say that Danish in fact does have two pitches - that is, you'll encounter two-syllable words with different pitches. Sometimes I hear words like these pronounced with a regular acute accent (think /JOHN-son/, /LON-don/) in one dialect, but more like a Swedish pitch#2 by most speakers.

To use my favourite Nordavinden og Sola example, I'm sure that if there were a Danish counterpart, we'd find versions that used both pitch accents (and mostly in the same spots), but also versions that used "the other" pitch for some words.
5 x
Leabhair/Greannáin léite as Gaeilge: 9 / 18
Ar an seastán oíche: Oileán an Órchiste
Duolingo - finished trees: sp/ga/de/fr/pt/it
Finnish with extra pain : 100 / 100

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Elsa Maria
Blue Belt
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:20 am
Location: USA
Languages: English (N), Intermediate Danish.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=6009
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Re: Elsa Maria's Log: Danish + (PT, LA, NL, NO)

Postby Elsa Maria » Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 pm

I am glad that someone knowledgeable like Jeff answered Peter's question. The stød comes up all the time in learning Danish, but I have not come across anything about tones. So out of curiosity, I searched a bit.

This is only a wikipedia article, so consider the source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_dialects

The graphic indicates that a small area in the south has tones. And the text says "In Southeastern Jutlandic, Southernmost Funen, Southern Langeland and Ærø, there is no stød but rather a form of pitch accent.

Is a pitch accent the same thing as a tone? Pardon my ignorance. I confess that I have not been the careful student of pronunciation like PM. I'd like to know more about such things!

I have marked these sites for later exploration:
Tema: Dialetkter
https://sproget.dk/temaer/dialekter

Dialekt.dk
https://dialekt.ku.dk/

And I have my eye on a new book about Danish pronunciation:

Udtalt: En introduktion til dansk fonetik
https://samfundslitteratur.dk/bog/udtalt

I learned to speak Danish in Aalborg, and I have been told that I have the northern accent. I suspect that is why I can understand Mette Fredericksen (the Prime Minister) so easily. She is from Aalborg.
Last edited by Elsa Maria on Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
6 x
Corrections are always welcome.

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jeff_lindqvist
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3135
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:52 pm
Languages: sv, en
de, es
ga, eo
---
fi, yue, ro, tp, cy, kw, pt, sk
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2773
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Re: Elsa Maria's Log: Danish + (PT, LA, NL, NO)

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:54 pm

Elsa Maria wrote:Is a pitch accent the same thing as a tone? Pardon my ignorance. I confess that I have not been the careful student of pronunciation like PM. I'd like to know more about such things!


That's probably a question of definition, but if someone talks about Norwegian and Swedish as tonal languages, they most likely mean the pitch accent system. Minimal pairs are often referred to, but rarely the fact that the two pitches are used basically all the time (in multi-syllable words). And rarely that they are used (and manifestated differently!) in all dialects.
7 x
Leabhair/Greannáin léite as Gaeilge: 9 / 18
Ar an seastán oíche: Oileán an Órchiste
Duolingo - finished trees: sp/ga/de/fr/pt/it
Finnish with extra pain : 100 / 100

Llorg Blog - Wiki - Discord


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