drp9341's 2 year Polish Immersion & advanced Spanish + Portuguese + Italian

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SGP
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Re: Drp9341's Polish /RUS/ARB/ITA/SPA/PT/FR log!

Postby SGP » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:45 am

drp9341 wrote:I usually never have a problem with this, but it's because I've been doing it my whole life in my native language, (English.) I stutter, and while it's not noticeable to hardly anyone, I have needed to change words my whole life in order to not stutter.

Now this is not something everyone would publicly mention, I'd say. (This is a mere observation of mine, not implying anything.)

drp9341 wrote:I can't think of any specifically, it's more that I question my texts constantly, (I need to check context.reverso .com pretty often,) and I ask a lot, "È meglio dire, l'italiano o italiano?" for example. I'll try to pay attention, that's a good question!

But that still was semi-specific, so I now got a more complete idea.

drp9341 wrote:It's because I'm 6'3" (190cm) and very white, (even though I have brown eyes and hair.) The stereotypical look of a Mexican / Central American is, (at least in the USA, and I'm guessing Spain also apparently - but please correct me if I'm wrong,) is a short, stocky / muscular build, dark skinned person with facial features different to that of a European. Even though there are LOTS of Mexicans that look to be fully European, they seem to be underrepresented in the diaspora; unless you go to Mexico / Central America, you will hardly ever meet Mexicans / Central Americans that look fully, "white." (insofar as they have no physical features that would ever make one question whether or not they had non-white ancestry.) I remember when I was in middle school, (maybe I was 13,) we met a Mexican American who looked completely white, (he looked like he was German or something,) and me and my friends, (some of them 'hispanic' themselves :lol: :lol: ,) didn't believe him for probably a week. We seriously thought that he was making a joke.

That "not believing him even if he tells the truth" thing happens way too often... Sometimes it is about perceptions like "it would be difficult to imagine that it even is possible, so it simply is impossible to me"... Something related to it is the (German) saying of some people, "es kann nicht sein, was nicht sein darf" ("what isn't allowed to happen also (simply) cannot happen", reverse word order).

(By the way, I simply am amazed about these Interlinking Between Language And Human Behavior Topics... I visited your log because of le lingue, but then, without even expecting, I even got new input for that "the language called communication" log that even "distracts" me from learning other languages sometimes. :) )

But if you believed him after a week has elapsed, was there any particular event that caused that shift and change?
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SGP originally stood for SomewhatGeekyPolyglot / Somewhat Geeky Polyglot, nowadays it simply stands for SGP.

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drp9341
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Location: NY, USA
Languages: Native: English (US)
C1: Spanish & Italian
B2+: Brazilian Portuguese
B2: French & Polish
Beginner: German, Russian
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=5978
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Re: Drp9341's Polish /RUS/ARB/ITA/SPA/PT/FR log!

Postby drp9341 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:47 am

SGP wrote:
drp9341 wrote:I usually never have a problem with this, but it's because I've been doing it my whole life in my native language, (English.) I stutter, and while it's not noticeable to hardly anyone, I have needed to change words my whole life in order to not stutter.

Now this is not something everyone would publicly mention, I'd say. (This is a mere observation of mine, not implying anything.)


haha why? It's better if people know I stutter, that way if I randomly start stammering on a word people know it's just a stutter and not a seizure.

Is there like a thing in your culture where you don't tell anyone if you stutter?


SGP wrote:
drp9341 wrote:It's because I'm 6'3" (190cm) and very white, (even though I have brown eyes and hair.) The stereotypical look of a Mexican / Central American is, (at least in the USA, and I'm guessing Spain also apparently - but please correct me if I'm wrong,) is a short, stocky / muscular build, dark skinned person with facial features different to that of a European. Even though there are LOTS of Mexicans that look to be fully European, they seem to be underrepresented in the diaspora; unless you go to Mexico / Central America, you will hardly ever meet Mexicans / Central Americans that look fully, "white." (insofar as they have no physical features that would ever make one question whether or not they had non-white ancestry.) I remember when I was in middle school, (maybe I was 13,) we met a Mexican American who looked completely white, (he looked like he was German or something,) and me and my friends, (some of them 'hispanic' themselves :lol: :lol: ,) didn't believe him for probably a week. We seriously thought that he was making a joke.

That "not believing him even if he tells the truth" thing happens way too often... Sometimes it is about perceptions like "it would be difficult to imagine that it even is possible, so it simply is impossible to me"... Something related to it is the (German) saying of some people, "es kann nicht sein, was nicht sein darf" ("what isn't allowed to happen also (simply) cannot happen", reverse word order).

(By the way, I simply am amazed about these Interlinking Between Language And Human Behavior Topics... I visited your log because of le lingue, but then, without even expecting, I even got new input for that "the language called communication" log that even "distracts" me from learning other languages sometimes. :) )

But if you believed him after a week has elapsed, was there any particular event that caused that shift and change?


We were kids, we all thought it was funny, he did as well, (this was before people were into political correctness though, back then it was okay to express your honest feeling that you were surprised by his nationality, given his appearance.)

I have no idea what happened to make us believe him though lol. We probably just forgot about it. I only remembered this years later when I started watching Telenovelas and started seeing a lot of "white Mexicans" again. He was only in school with us for 2 years, unfortunately. He was a funny dude.
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Re: Drp9341's Polish /RUS/ARB/ITA/SPA/PT/FR log!

Postby SGP » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:40 am

drp9341 wrote:haha why? It's better if people know I stutter, that way if I randomly start stammering on a word people know it's just a stutter and not a seizure.

I mainly meant that it is something that not everyone would mention "publicly", as in "online". ;)

drp9341 wrote:Is there like a thing in your culture where you don't tell anyone if you stutter?

I'd say it depends, rather than answering with a full "yes" or "no".

drp9341 wrote:We were kids, we all thought it was funny, he did as well, (this was before people were into political correctness though, back then it was okay to express your honest feeling that you were surprised by his nationality, given his appearance.)

Does that mean that nowadays people in wherever you live right now, at least the majority of them, don't appreciate it when someone expresses a feeling like this today? Or could it also be something that, while many still like it, simply isn't being done because of The Sole Existence Of A Concept Called Political Correctness? (One of my frequent side-notes: When asking a question like this, it is simply being done on a factual level. Nothing is meant as a "right or wrong discussion" statement).

I am fully aware that things like these (i.e. expressing one's feeling about the surprise related to the appearance) can be misunderstood very often. Although I also experienced many cases where someone's attitude differed from whatever currently is considered Political Correctness in any country, whatever it may be.
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SGP originally stood for SomewhatGeekyPolyglot / Somewhat Geeky Polyglot, nowadays it simply stands for SGP.

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drp9341
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Re: Drp9341's Polish /RUS/ARB/ITA/SPA/PT/FR log!

Postby drp9341 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:32 pm

SGP wrote:
drp9341 wrote:haha why? It's better if people know I stutter, that way if I randomly start stammering on a word people know it's just a stutter and not a seizure.

I mainly meant that it is something that not everyone would mention "publicly", as in "online". ;)

:?: haha why? I already have my picture on here. If someone wants to find me there's way better info in this thread to do so. Like I said, most people don't know I stutter, I'm very good at controlling it. I used to be well known as a teenager within the "speech pathology community" as a "stuttering success story," if someone looks hard enough, they can find videos of me in documentaries talking about stuttering, and even videos from when I was a kid showing how I stuttered. It's public knowledge basically.

SGP wrote:
drp9341 wrote:Is there like a thing in your culture where you don't tell anyone if you stutter?

I'd say it depends, rather than answering with a full "yes" or "no".


Many stutterers try to hide it. I think that's a bad idea socially. If people know you have a bit of a stutter, and they see you don't care, will almost always view it positive thing. If people see you try to hide it, deny it, etc. they will usually attribute that to insecurity, and will then view your stuttering as a negative thing. You can't stop stuttering, but you can influence the way people will perceive it. Will they see you as someone who is proud, and overcame adversity? or will they see you as someone who is insecure because of a flaw, and thus tries to hide it?

This something that I always tell stutterers: Most people have thought very little about stuttering, so your mindset and attitude towards stuttering will be the one they are likely to adopt, after spending time with you. If your attitude is "yeah I stutter, so what?" and you exude that attitude confidently, not allowing anyone to change your opinion or feelings towards it, then you will control the narrative, and be the one who shapes their opinion.


SGP wrote:
drp9341 wrote:We were kids, we all thought it was funny, he did as well, (this was before people were into political correctness though, back then it was okay to express your honest feeling that you were surprised by his nationality, given his appearance.)

Does that mean that nowadays people in wherever you live right now, at least the majority of them, don't appreciate it when someone expresses a feeling like this today? Or could it also be something that, while many still like it, simply isn't being done because of The Sole Existence Of A Concept Called Political Correctness? (One of my frequent side-notes: When asking a question like this, it is simply being done on a factual level. Nothing is meant as a "right or wrong discussion" statement).

I am fully aware that things like these (i.e. expressing one's feeling about the surprise related to the appearance) can be misunderstood very often. Although I also experienced many cases where someone's attitude differed from whatever currently is considered Political Correctness in any country, whatever it may be.


What I'm about to say is just my opinion, so take it as you wish. Given what I've seen and experienced, the fact that "political correctness" is a household term is scary. Most people fear publicly loosing face and being dishonored more than they do death or imprisonment. It seems like a psychologically well crafted tool that is being wielded by those with political ambitions, to suppress free speech under the guise of "moral virtue" or "kindness." The number of topics considered acceptable discourse is growing smaller and smaller. That is alarming. You can't even discuss certain topics without risking your career and your reputation. That's regressive in a social sense, and it's strikingly similar to fascism. However since it's done under the pretense of kindness, you risk your reputation going after it. Thus no one speaks out against it.
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Re: Drp9341's Polish /RUS/ARB/ITA/SPA/PT/FR log!

Postby SGP » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:24 am

drp9341 wrote:What I'm about to say is just my opinion, so take it as you wish. Given what I've seen and experienced, the fact that "political correctness" is a household term is scary. Most people fear publicly loosing face and being dishonored more than they do death or imprisonment. It seems like a psychologically well crafted tool that is being wielded by those with political ambitions, to suppress free speech under the guise of "moral virtue" or "kindness." The number of topics considered acceptable discourse is growing smaller and smaller. That is alarming. You can't even discuss certain topics without risking your career and your reputation. That's regressive in a social sense, and it's strikingly similar to fascism. However since it's done under the pretense of kindness, you risk your reputation going after it. Thus no one speaks out against it.


For a certain reason I for one wouldn't have something to say about this particular matter right now. This is because speaking of my forum activity, I tend not to mention too many POVs (point of views) of mine that wouldn't be directly related to languages.

Although if we would have met in person right now, it would have been possible that I told you "while I do not agree on everything you said, I do agree on some of it". Just wanted to let you know that some of what you mentioned also was a not-so-small input for my current #1 language-related project, and that would be a certain "The language called communication" learner's log.

Because of not even wanting to cause the impression of trying to hijack :lol: your log for "my" purposes (even if that log isn't for me alone, far from it), I am not posting its link at this point. (Also, it, at least currently, is included in my signature anyway). As for everyone, you, too, are welcome to participate there if you wanted to do so. I'd just like to add that this specific language learner's log wouldn't be intended for any POVs that are related to anything what might be called "social judgements" or "judgements of society" and so on, whether someone agrees with "The Very Mainstream" on a certain matter or not. I, too, am not mentioning any of my POVs on any of this there. Something more detailed explanation for my reasons for restricting that thread's scope to something else only could be found in the last post of that log's first page.

In addition, while I was writing this, I also realized that even speaking of a bit of what you said before posting the post I partially quoted above, you already were among those who provided some input, even if you maybe didn't even know that I currently am on a quest for finding as many Valuable Communication Mosaic Stones as possible.
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SGP originally stood for SomewhatGeekyPolyglot / Somewhat Geeky Polyglot, nowadays it simply stands for SGP.

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Re: Drp9341's Polish /RUS/ARB/ITA/SPA/PT/FR log!

Postby drp9341 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:44 am

SGP wrote:
drp9341 wrote:What I'm about to say is just my opinion, so take it as you wish. Given what I've seen and experienced, the fact that "political correctness" is a household term is scary. Most people fear publicly loosing face and being dishonored more than they do death or imprisonment. It seems like a psychologically well crafted tool that is being wielded by those with political ambitions, to suppress free speech under the guise of "moral virtue" or "kindness." The number of topics considered acceptable discourse is growing smaller and smaller. That is alarming. You can't even discuss certain topics without risking your career and your reputation. That's regressive in a social sense, and it's strikingly similar to fascism. However since it's done under the pretense of kindness, you risk your reputation going after it. Thus no one speaks out against it.


For a certain reason I for one wouldn't have something to say about this particular matter right now. This is because speaking of my forum activity, I tend not to mention too many POVs (point of views) of mine that wouldn't be directly related to languages.

Although if we would have met in person right now, it would have been possible that I told you "while I do not agree on everything you said, I do agree on some of it". Just wanted to let you know that some of what you mentioned also was a not-so-small input for my current #1 language-related project, and that would be a certain "The language called communication" learner's log.

Because of not even wanting to cause the impression of trying to hijack :lol: your log for "my" purposes (even if that log isn't for me alone, far from it), I am not posting its link at this point. (Also, it, at least currently, is included in my signature anyway). As for everyone, you, too, are welcome to participate there if you wanted to do so. I'd just like to add that this specific language learner's log wouldn't be intended for any POVs that are related to anything what might be called "social judgements" or "judgements of society" and so on, whether someone agrees with "The Very Mainstream" on a certain matter or not. I, too, am not mentioning any of my POVs on any of this there. Something more detailed explanation for my reasons for restricting that thread's scope to something else only could be found in the last post of that log's first page.

In addition, while I was writing this, I also realized that even speaking of a bit of what you said before posting the post I partially quoted above, you already were among those who provided some input, even if you maybe didn't even know that I currently am on a quest for finding as many Valuable Communication Mosaic Stones as possible.


Don't worry about "hijacking" my thread haha.

I wish "Polyglots" would discuss things other than languages more frequently. Since we all have a similar interest, (an interest that for many of us seriously impacts the trajectory of our lives,) it would fascinating to discuss "deep" things with other "polyglots." I'm curious if through the process of learning languages, living amongst different cultures, immersing ourselves in different societies etc. we would all have a quite similar outlook on "life", or if we would have all come to believe very different things. I welcome any discussion on this log, (as long as the topics being discussed aren't against the forum rules!)
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Re: Drp9341's Polish /RUS/ARB/ITA/SPA/PT/FR log!

Postby SGP » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:00 am

drp9341 wrote:Don't worry about "hijacking" my thread haha.

[Speaking like this because of my appreciation for Many Things Caribbean And Many Things African]: Eh how come man? Why you mek me laugh?!! :lol:

Still, at least for now, not posting the link myself here (even if I realize that I possibly would remove it from my signature once again after some time [EDIT: not once again because I never removed it before, but I meant to write "after some time", thus adding those words now], so it wouldn't be directly mentioned here any more). This is because I really want to emphasize that I am not an Online Ali Baba And The Four Hundred Thieves Gang Thread Hijacker.

[NotAsking SimplyExplaining] Just in case you, yourself, would have any reasons for doing so, this could be yet another way of raising a bit of awareness for that thread that I consider to be helpful for anyone who wants to optimize some conversational aspects. But again, I just told you what is on my mind only.

drp9341 wrote:I wish "Polyglots" would discuss things other than languages more frequently. Since we all have a similar interest, (an interest that for many of us seriously impacts the trajectory of our lives,) it would fascinating to discuss "deep" things with other "polyglots." I'm curious if through the process of learning languages, living amongst different cultures, immersing ourselves in different societies etc. we would all have a quite similar outlook on "life", or if we would have all come to believe very different things. I welcome any discussion on this log, (as long as the topics being discussed aren't against the forum rules!)

If we would have met in person or have had contact elsewhere on the Internet, it would be rather different for me, too. It's just that anything related to topics of weltanschauung [this is a frequently used term even in English :), it means "point of view about the world", but in a very broad sense] and so on keeps reminding me of what has been mentioned inside a certain information on this forum, more specifically, "Religion and politics: Some families have a rule that says, "No political or religious arguments during holiday dinner." This forum has a similar rule year-round, for much the same reasons. We have people here from all over the world, with incredibly diverse political and religious views, and we all get along much better if we avoid these subjects."

I also have my own POV on this very passage, but for the same reasons I am not mentioning my others, I am also not mentioning this one either. ;)

If I theoretically would be starting or joining any conversation about POVs that are not directly language related, I could very easily say something that some of the admins/mods wouldn't like. Even if I, in case I theoretically would be speaking about anything like this here (but not doing it, neither in my posts nor in my PMs), would fully retain the same degree of politeness that I am also trying to retain when it is about language matters. So that's why I don't even mention my own weltanschauung/etc POVs in my communication related learner's log.
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Re: Drp9341's Polish ITA/SPA/PT/FR + /RUS/ log!

Postby SGP » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:36 pm

Hi again drp9341,
have you been contacted by the Heirs of Ali Baba yet? Did they tell you that you can gain millions of dollars, but you need to wire them 20% of the possible sum in advance for themselves being able to pay some fees first?

Other than that, someone (who isn't one of them, nor of their Worldwide Hiding Treasures in Hidden Mountain Caves Without the Slightest Need of Any Weird Password Grand Gangster Gang) just invited you somewhere.

SGP's Creative Juices Language Question and Answer Research Log
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SGP originally stood for SomewhatGeekyPolyglot / Somewhat Geeky Polyglot, nowadays it simply stands for SGP.

Any 2-digit # of lang. in rotation - Multi-language log about music, art, foods, ...


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drp9341
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Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:21 pm
Location: NY, USA
Languages: Native: English (US)
C1: Spanish & Italian
B2+: Brazilian Portuguese
B2: French & Polish
Beginner: German, Russian
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=5978
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Re: Drp9341's Polish ITA/SPA/PT/FR + /RUS/ log!

Postby drp9341 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:15 am

Por la primera vez, publicaré algo en español.

Acabo de volver de Italia. Estuve allá por 7 días. Y mañana voy ir para España por 8 días.

¡A propósito, trataré de escribir todo "grammaticalmente correcto!" Por eso, no tengas miedo de corregir cualquier error que cometa :D

En cuanto a mi "Italiano", no puedo creer cuánto ha mejorado en sólo 8 días. Es posible que sea por haber hablado prácticamente sólo en italiano por toda la semana, (con la excepción de unas pocas llamadas en inglés :D .) La verdad es que no sentía menos a gusto de hablar italiano que inglés, en el sentido que no hubo ningún momento en que pensé, "si esta conversación/reunión fuera en inglés podría explicar/chistear (etc.) mejor." Mis amigos me decían que "esta vez" hablaba mucho mejor. Noté que mis "profesores de italiano" que son de otras regiones suelen corregirme para 'errores' que según mis amigos/parientes en toscana, no son errores. No sé. La situación lingüística en Italia me parece... complicada; algo que sì es correcto en una región, se puede considerar equivocado en otra jaja.

Mi viaje para España será otra "aventura" en que hablaré, probablamente, el más del 90% en español. Es básicamente por eso que decidí escribir este "post* (¿cómo se dice?)" en español. Además, me di cuenta de que en español no puedo escribir como yo quisiera. Además, ayer estuve hablando por telefono (en español) y más de una vez, tenía que cambiar una palabra para no hablar "espaliano" jaja. Creo que mezclaré los dos idiomas, (un poquito,) los primeros días, pero no creo que vaya ser "notable," por lo general cambio la palabra antes de que lo diga :D

M nivel polaco se quedó igual; no ha empeorado, no ha mejorado - así que no me puedo quejar. ;)

Gracias por haber leído, y por favor, corrijan todos los errores que cometí :D.
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Re: Drp9341's POLISH (French and Russian) LOG & maintaining my other languages LOG

Postby drp9341 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:59 pm

I have a lot to talk about regarding languages, but basically I'm focusing on FRENCH, then Polish, then Russian.

I'm currently doing FRANÇAIS AUTHENTIQUE. My French is quite fluent; I can speak it quickly and with a pretty good accent. Nonetheless, I only spent 6 months of my life studying French. The first two months I self studied for ~30m-1hr a day for a placement exam, so that I could skip the first 2 years of University courses, and jump right into the more advanced courses. I then took a French "Conversation" course or something like that. It was a joke.

I went to school in arguably the most monolingual region in the US - A rural state school in the midwest. The only languages spoken there were... Saudi Arabic, and Mandarin (by the foreign students.)

Read on, or skip, my AMAZING tangent about my last year of University. I created, became the 'leader' of my University's "Portuguese club" :D :D :D (((( ***however, my last year they opened up a program with Brazil. I got to speak lots of Portuguese. I even started a Portuguese Language club my senior year. I basically served as the liaison between the Brazilians and the Americans. Since me and my roommates used to throw very wild parties, (no I wasn't a "frat boy,") every Thursday and Saturday, there would always be tons of Brazilians in and out of my house, sometimes they were just cooking before the party, sometimes they were too drunk to walk home, or just wanted to hang around and chill until Sunday evening.... those 8 months were something else, man.))))End of Tangent


The French course taught me some grammar, and helped me internalize concepts like, "qui vs que" "dont" "en" etc. Aside from this, I can't really say it helped much. I used to go to office hours to chat, but the professors were very odd; they didn't like that I believed I could just "learn French on my own." They told me I needed to live there, to study it seriously, etc. I agree with them. If you want to reach a C1 or C2 level you do need to immerse yourself in the language. However, I just wanted to continue improving. I told them this. I also said that, If I stopped making progress, then I would have to decide whether or not to spend time in France, or to move on, and study another language.


The things that stop me from being as proficient in French as I am in Portuguese are... (in order of relevance..)
#1 Listening Comprehension.
#2 Not knowing many French words that don't have cognates in other Romance Languages. AND using Italian constructions with French words, instead of saying things like a francophone would
#3 Information regarding French culture, history, music, geography etc.
#4 SLANG
#5 AGAIN: LISTENING COMPREHENSION!!!!!


Currently I'm doing Français Authentique, as well as working with a really strict and thorough French Teacher here in Warsaw, I'm trading Brazilian Portuguese lessons for French lessons. In about a month, when I see how my passive skills have improved, I'll get a cheap iTalki tutor to talk with.

I like Français Authentique. Like I've said, I do know about 95% of the words, but it really helps my French exactly where my French needs help. Reading literature won't help me speak and understand better. I need to maintain contact with, analyze, and then internalize lots of colloquial, yet correct, French.

I'll update my progress with Polish, (AND MY FINAL "6 MONTH PLAN" FOR RUSSIAN!) in a few days. I'm about to be totally immersed in Polish from tonight until I leave for America Friday.
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