Drp9341 is (accidentally back) in POLAND for another year!!!!

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drp9341
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Re: Drp9341's "back in the USA" - Polyglottery in America?

Postby drp9341 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:26 pm

cjareck wrote:Hope you don't mind small correction in spelling:
drp9341 wrote: "Nie miałeś gdzieś jehać?"


It should be jechać - the pronunciation of "ch" and "h" is the same despite my wife saying that they are little different ;)

Whoops that was a typo. I always say thank god people know I’m a native English Speaker because if I write quick it looks like someone at an A2 level (In English!) wrote it haha.

I don’t know if there’s a difference. I think has more to do with it’s position, for example the initial phoneme of both - hartuje vs. Charakter to me seem to be be pronounced the same, yet the ‘CH’ graphemes is pronounced differently when comparing charakter vs jechać I haven’t been immersed in Polish in almost 5 months so I am probably way out of my area of expertise right now. Feel free to correct me.

cjareck wrote: As for changes described by you, the people who speak there are rather old or from special regions. Most educated or higher class people rather speak standard Polish. There are also regional differences: my wife sometimes uses phrases in Polish but based on Russian grammar: "daj to dla Darka" instead "daj to Darkowi." She is from part of Poland that, in the years 1795-1918 was part of Russia (from 1915-1918 occupied by Germany). My mother, however, who comes from part that was once part of Germany, says: "usiądź się" instead of simply "usiądź." She simply copies German "sich setzen" with Polish words.


That’s so interesting. The differences are so subtle it’s unreal. It’s like how it took me over a year to realize that people in Ohio would leave out the “be” in sentences like “it needs to BE cleaned.” They wouldn’t say the word be. I didn’t notice it for over a year lol.

The region of Podkarpacie my girlfriend’s family comes from was under Austrian rule. I’m going to try to record my girlfriends father next time I’m there and send it to a speech pathologist who exchanged English for Polish pronunciation lessons with. She’s pretty into that stuff. If you’d be interested, send me a private message. His accent can make it VERY hard to understand what he says.

Later I want to write about “alertness” and how that can affect listening comprehension incredibly. But lunch break is almost over ;)
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Re: Drp9341's "back in the USA" - Polyglottery in America?

Postby drp9341 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:27 pm

mental ALERTNESS and listening comprehension.
So today I was really at 100%. I guess due to a combination of sleep diet and exercise, who honestly knows. It's always so random.

I'm going to use this older Nicaraguan man who slurs his speech, and never ever takes off his mask as my "litmus" test for Spanish comprehension.

This guy is super cool and nice. About a week ago me and him had a "conversation" for a few minutes while walking up to the three floors, and I honestly didn't understand more than 70% of what he said. It was like my brain couldn't expend the energy or concentrate hard enough to "making sense out of" his weird Spanish + the poor sound quality. I managed to get the gist, but only what came naturally.

I asked my Colombian friend about it, and he said it's also hard for him to understand exactly what the central Americans say to each other.

Today we were all together in the construction elevator, me, my Colombian friend, and the older Nicaraguan guy. The older Nicaraguan guy was talking really fast and joking with my Colombian friend and me somewhat, and I understood like 95% of what he said. How is that? You don't get a 25%% increase in terms of that sort of listening comprehension in the span of a week!
___________________
I honestly forgot what I was gonna ramble about in terms of Colombian Spanish and the voseo. All I can think of is....

Lots of people on the job use voseo, and that the Colombian accent, (Cali) is really cool. I'm going to start consuming more Colombian media and see if my speaking slowly changes to something more Colombian.
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Re: Drp9341's "back in the USA" - Polyglottery in America?

Postby Saim » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:07 am

<Ch> and <h> are pronounced exactly the same for the vast majority of contemporary speakers, namely /x/.

You're right that between vowels the phoneme /x/ (both <ch> and <h>) has the allophone [h]. Not everyone pronounces it this way; it seems to be subject to a bit of individual variation.
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Re: Drp9341's "back in the USA" - Polyglottery in America?

Postby drp9341 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:06 am

It's been ages since I've posted here!
I've been in Poland, and I've been working totally exclusively on Polish and grad school (through zoom, at 1am...)

My Polish has improved so much. I am 4 weeks into a 6-week long substitute English teaching job at a public elementary school, where I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who speaks English. This won't be closed due to how young the students are. My students correct my Polish all the time. I tell them they need to teach me Polish, and they love to feel like they're smart and helping "the teacher" and I always give them a fist bump and a big thank you. They even remark on my pronunciation if I mix up cz/ć or sz/ś. They think I'm the "fun teacher" because I'm doing some variation of a Montessori style class. I need to tell the kids stories, and they love telling me stories. They are actually really fun. This is a public school on the outskirts of Warsaw, so the kids are SO DIFFERENT than the kids from that private international school where I had a brief 6-week stint in hell on earth.

I've been watching Netflix again now that they uploaded the show, Nie Martw Się o Mnie. It has like 150+ episodes, and Polish subtitles. Before then, I was doing a lot reading, and watching Krzystof Gonciarz, and some lesser known Polish travel Vloggers. I usually listen to that Polish podcast, imponderabilia, whenever I'm on public transport.

I'm using Mr. Real Polish's "365 Daily Polish Listening" course with his VIP program. The 365 DLP course is very easy, but there's always at least one new word per day, and I always learn something, (like which case a verb governs etc.) that I previously didn't know before.

His VIP course is honestly great. He breaks down lots of idioms. I haven't watched his longer videos but the video's where he breaks down scenes from TV shows are really good. Basically my learning is divided into two "types" which often overlap.
Type One = Learning New Information
Learn new words, new idioms, learn new slang via Netflix, friends' Instagram and facebook posts, and searching for advice or reading about random topics only in Polish. (I have my girlfriend to help with slang and idioms. I really recommend you find a native speaker for this.) There are so many slang words and idioms that are used all the time that you can't find even on context reverso.
This also includes using Wiktionary every time I'm not sure of a declension. I have the app on my phones home screen.

Type Two = Solidyfing and Coreccting Old Knowledge
This involves....
- Listening to Mr. real Polish and putting into my "list" verbs that govern cases I didn't know. (I may have though x governed the accusative, but it's actually the genitive etc.)
- Memorizing patterns, and trying to repeat them. It sounds more normal to express a thought like X instead of Y.
i.e. Pomaga mi w zampiętaniu nowego słownictwa sounds better than Pomaga mi zapamiętać nowe słownictwo (according to my girlfriend)
- Practicing saying sentences focusing on pronunciation.
- Asking Native Speakers I'm out to dinner with, how they would have said what I said - this only works if the native speaker understands what you're trying to do. after I say something (to a waiter for example).
- Collocations
- Listening to Mr. Real Polish's stories multiple times even though I understood literally everything the first time I heard it.

Final Thoughts...

I don't know which part of my learning helps me more. My girlfriend doesn't understand why I bother listening to Mr. Real Polish's course she says it's too easy. She's wrong. it helps me smooth out the rough edges of what I know so I speak more like a native, and make fewer mistakes. (I HIGHLY RECOMMEND HIS COURSE TO ANYONE WHO ISNT ALREADY B2/C1 IN POLISH!!!!)

Speaking Polish non-stop for hours upon hours each day with children is great. It really lets me use all the Polish I know as I can create wild stories and use them to motivate them to teach English. I talk literally for hours on end with little kids who pull the conversations in all sorts of unexpected and truly funny ways. I legitimately crack up laughing at some of the stuff they say and do. Plus, having to deal with the other teachers and cleaning/building staff really helps. They're all super nice to me and they are very curious about me and the USA and New York. I can socialize pretty comfortably now for long periods of time, even when there's slang involved. I just ask what words mean if I don't understand. If I drink it becomes harder to speak Polish, so I actually stopped drinking so that I could hang out without having to make everyone listen to me speak English.

I'm no longer a "polyglot" though. I had made plans with my friend from Spain for tonight, but he is very sick. He sent me a voice message and I sent one back and I made a lot silly mistakes. I plan on staying here until June or July 2021. I'm not pushing myself and forcing myself to do things I don't like to learn Polish. I take weekends off from "official" Polish learning. I only do things I want to do regarding language learning, and I must admit my "unofficial" day looks quite similar to the "official" days; this is a good sign. I hope to reach a very strong B2 level before I leave. Maybe even C1. In addition to my very effective yet laissez-faire methods, I want to "master" two things before I go back to the states: Master Polish numbers. (kill me now.) and learn legal and political vocabulary well enough that I can read anything about politics without having to constantly look up funny words I've never seen before.
As of now...


That's all for now. Peace out!
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Re: Drp9341's "back in the USA" - Polyglottery in America?

Postby drp9341 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:51 pm

I want to link to Mr. Real Polish's website and review it in more detail, in case anyone wants to use it.
I want to support anyone who is out there making materials for Polish learners!

https://realpolish.pl/polish-learning-materials/

I'm not going to lie, it's not the most amazing language course in the world, but given the lack of resources there are for Polish at the intermediate (or even A2 level,) I'd give it a 10/10. Even if you're at a B2 level, this course can help you stop making mistakes, (mistakes that will become fossilized, because no one would correct them.) It will also help you with learning some random vocabulary, and if Polish is your first Slavic language, it will help reinforce the meanings of lots of words which sound nothing like English or Spanish, etc. (there are a decent amount of French words though.)

A lot of his VIP only videos would help anyone who's not a native speaker. The videos where he breaks down dialogues from short scenes from TV shows are fantastic.

I haven't seen the "100 daily Polish stories" and the "stories with 50 Polish Idioms" packs, so I can't say for sure how they are.

His 365 program is good though. He sends you 30 (or 31) stories each month for a total of 365 stories a year. This is awesome since you don't want to fall behind since he's going to send you 30/31 stories next month. The stuff is great if you're at a lower intermediate level. If you're at a higher intermediate level, it's still great because it's a good way to review stuff you already know, (but maybe in the process of forgetting,) and learn new ways to say things and some new vocabulary since the stories cover a wide range of topics.

drp9341 wrote:It's been ages since I've posted here!
I've been in Poland, and I've been working totally exclusively on Polish and grad school (through zoom, at 1am...)

My Polish has improved so much. I am 4 weeks into a 6-week long substitute English teaching job at a public elementary school, where I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who speaks English. This won't be closed due to how young the students are. My students correct my Polish all the time. I tell them they need to teach me Polish, and they love to feel like they're smart and helping "the teacher" and I always give them a fist bump and a big thank you. They even remark on my pronunciation if I mix up cz/ć or sz/ś. They think I'm the "fun teacher" because I'm doing some variation of a Montessori style class. I need to tell the kids stories, and they love telling me stories. They are actually really fun. This is a public school on the outskirts of Warsaw, so the kids are SO DIFFERENT than the kids from that private international school where I had a brief 6-week stint in hell on earth.

I've been watching Netflix again now that they uploaded the show, Nie Martw Się o Mnie. It has like 150+ episodes, and Polish subtitles. Before then, I was doing a lot reading, and watching Krzystof Gonciarz, and some lesser known Polish travel Vloggers. I usually listen to that Polish podcast, imponderabilia, whenever I'm on public transport.

I'm using Mr. Real Polish's "365 Daily Polish Listening" course with his VIP program. The 365 DLP course is very easy, but there's always at least one new word per day, and I always learn something, (like which case a verb governs etc.) that I previously didn't know before.

His VIP course is honestly great. He breaks down lots of idioms. I haven't watched his longer videos but the video's where he breaks down scenes from TV shows are really good. Basically my learning is divided into two "types" which often overlap.
Type One = Learning New Information
Learn new words, new idioms, learn new slang via Netflix, friends' Instagram and facebook posts, and searching for advice or reading about random topics only in Polish. (I have my girlfriend to help with slang and idioms. I really recommend you find a native speaker for this.) There are so many slang words and idioms that are used all the time that you can't find even on context reverso.
This also includes using Wiktionary every time I'm not sure of a declension. I have the app on my phones home screen.

Type Two = Solidyfing and Coreccting Old Knowledge
This involves....
- Listening to Mr. real Polish and putting into my "list" verbs that govern cases I didn't know. (I may have though x governed the accusative, but it's actually the genitive etc.)
- Memorizing patterns, and trying to repeat them. It sounds more normal to express a thought like X instead of Y.
i.e. Pomaga mi w zampiętaniu nowego słownictwa sounds better than Pomaga mi zapamiętać nowe słownictwo (according to my girlfriend)
- Practicing saying sentences focusing on pronunciation.
- Asking Native Speakers I'm out to dinner with, how they would have said what I said - this only works if the native speaker understands what you're trying to do. after I say something (to a waiter for example).
- Collocations
- Listening to Mr. Real Polish's stories multiple times even though I understood literally everything the first time I heard it.

Final Thoughts...

I don't know which part of my learning helps me more. My girlfriend doesn't understand why I bother listening to Mr. Real Polish's course she says it's too easy. She's wrong. it helps me smooth out the rough edges of what I know so I speak more like a native, and make fewer mistakes. (I HIGHLY RECOMMEND HIS COURSE TO ANYONE WHO ISNT ALREADY B2/C1 IN POLISH!!!!)

Speaking Polish non-stop for hours upon hours each day with children is great. It really lets me use all the Polish I know as I can create wild stories and use them to motivate them to teach English. I talk literally for hours on end with little kids who pull the conversations in all sorts of unexpected and truly funny ways. I legitimately crack up laughing at some of the stuff they say and do. Plus, having to deal with the other teachers and cleaning/building staff really helps. They're all super nice to me and they are very curious about me and the USA and New York. I can socialize pretty comfortably now for long periods of time, even when there's slang involved. I just ask what words mean if I don't understand. If I drink it becomes harder to speak Polish, so I actually stopped drinking so that I could hang out without having to make everyone listen to me speak English.

I'm no longer a "polyglot" though. I had made plans with my friend from Spain for tonight, but he is very sick. He sent me a voice message and I sent one back and I made a lot silly mistakes. I plan on staying here until June or July 2021. I'm not pushing myself and forcing myself to do things I don't like to learn Polish. I take weekends off from "official" Polish learning. I only do things I want to do regarding language learning, and I must admit my "unofficial" day looks quite similar to the "official" days; this is a good sign. I hope to reach a very strong B2 level before I leave. Maybe even C1. In addition to my very effective yet laissez-faire methods, I want to "master" two things before I go back to the states: Master Polish numbers. (kill me now.) and learn legal and political vocabulary well enough that I can read anything about politics without having to constantly look up funny words I've never seen before.
As of now...


That's all for now. Peace out!
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Re: Drp9341 is (accidentally back) in POLAND for another year!!!!

Postby drp9341 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:04 am

So I am living with my girlfriends parents in the Polish countryside. This year is wild.

You might ask, "How does this relate to languages?"
- No one except my girlfriend speaks ANY English.
- I spend a lot of time with my girlfriend's siblings and parents. I genuinely get along with them, I've suspected ever since my first girlfriend that the whole stereotype about inlaws is overexxagerated. I had inlaws who were absolutely reckless, clinically, insane, one who was according to all sources a legend in terms of his skill in the army and a complete and utter sociopath. Never had a problem. Not once. Am I lucky? Probably.

Saturday we went to a party with a bunch of Poles. The sense of humor is so different. What would be understood as sarcasm is taken here literally, it's not words, grammar, listening, or speaking that are making integration so difficult, it really is the culture. Yesterday I spoke to my friend from Italy on the phone for literally 3 hours. I hadn't talked to her in a few months. I can joke, I can use funny idioms, cultural references, etc. I can do that also in Spanish to a certain extant, since Spanish is spoken by so many cultures I don't want to make any grand assumptions.

Here's the fun part: In Polish, I technically should be able to do the same but less "gracefully," but that's not the way it is.

My cousin is literally the only other anglophone I know who speaks Polish to a high level in real life. My girlfriend says she sounds like a Native Speaker, she uses Polish professionally in Ireland, and she started learning when she was 17. Her husband hardly speaks English, and her social circle is comprised mostly of Poles living in Ireland. It's an absurdly unlikely coincidence.

She messaged me about something random and I made a cursory comment about Polish humor and how integration is not as easy as learning to talk the way they talk. My cousin, who is generally rather reserved and says very little, sent me like a short novel worth of messages.

This is in no way meant to disparage Poland, I quite like it here in fact. I always have. I am speaking really fluently (now that doesn't mean I am the next Miczkiewicz, to put it mildly, lol). Sure, I make mistakes, but not big ones. I always look mistakes up and I tell people to correct me all the time and they very often do. I can say what I want to say. However, these things have become something like a small inconvenience I've grown so accustomed to I that I hardly notice it.

I think I need to spend more time watching "comedies" with Polish men and like an alien trying to pass as a human, figure out what is funny, what's sad, and what's good. How much of this can be laid at the feet of the events of the 20th century is a question that I really want to know the answer to. There tropes that appear in recent fiction that are foreign to me. The naive man who flails through life as a result of his own ignorance and naivete. This seems to make people laugh. It is funny, but not super funny.

For the first time in my life, I understand why literature and English classes back in High School were important. We share a cultural narrative that is so normal to us we aren't even aware. I cringe when I hear the average left-leaning North American white girl declare with a smug demeanor that "We have no culture." That's not even possible. I'm still in Europe, and I'm seeing these things. Imagine those who really integrate into truly foreign cultures with almost no ties to western Europe? I wonder how they view those who claim such nonsense.

There's a big difference between "not being a cultural chauvinist" and sticking your head in the sand.

Linguistically, I'm really disinterested in the language itself. I don't really have any strong opinions or feelings towards me using Polish. I'm just speaking to people. At this point, I really have become so used to speaking different languages that it's hard to care all that much. I do love a good conversation with a quick-witted anglophone though. On the rare occasion this occurs, I am reminded that English is my native language.

I am continuing to improve my Polish, but I am actually using my language skills to ask seemingly stupid questions simply to hear what the answers here are. I love listening to PiS supporters rant on the radio about things that to a western audience would maybe be confused for a comedy sketch. I love talking to the left-wingers here, and hearing their "radical" ideas that even in America would be considered moderate by most. I haven't mastered Polish, but I've broken through a glass ceiling of sorts and upon doing so saw yet another that is never spoken of. I'm very interested though. Languages have been something I've grown so familiar with that I take for granted. A culture which at first glance seems so similar, yet actually different in ways that do indeed matter, is another matter altogether. The fact that I can't even find any good information about it online makes it even more special.

We've grown so accustomed to having so much knowledge at the touch of a smartphone that when you find a question that is not already answered, that you are now capable of grappling with due to your unique situation, you feel a sort of curiosity and hunger for understanding that hardly exists in the modern-day.

The fact that Polish and "Anglo" culture is 95% the same or more, makes the things that are different seem trivial. Yet they are relevant to anyone who wishes to truly attempt to integrate into such a society.

If this reads like the uni bomber's manifesto, let me know. This is all very abstract. If anyone wishes to challenge anything I wrote, please do so. I really don't care if my assumptions are right, I am genuinely curious and would rather be wrong and learn than feel sure and risk ignorance.
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Re: Drp9341 is (accidentally back) in POLAND for another year!!!!

Postby cjareck » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:50 pm

drp9341 wrote: Miczkiewicz,

It is "Mickiewicz"
drp9341 wrote:I am continuing to improve my Polish, but I am actually using my language skills to ask seemingly stupid questions simply to hear what the answers here are. I love listening to PiS supporters rant on the radio about things that to a western audience would maybe be confused for a comedy sketch. I love talking to the left-wingers here, and hearing their "radical" ideas that even in America would be considered moderate by most. I haven't mastered Polish, but I've broken through a glass ceiling of sorts and upon doing so saw yet another that is never spoken of.

Remember that PiS is not on the right-wing of the political scene. They are giving money left and right and support high taxes. They are rather like NSDAP - national-socialists. The real right-wing party is "Konfederacja," that I'm more or less a supporter of.

If you say that "our" leftists are "moderate" compared to the west, I am a little shocked. Nevertheless, Polish society has changed drastically in the last 20 or so years. What you wrote about culture - is based on Christian roots in Poland and the West. That is the reason.
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Re: Drp9341 is (accidentally back) in POLAND for another year!!!!

Postby overscore » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:38 pm

cjareck wrote:If you say that "our" leftists are "moderate" compared to the west, I am a little shocked. Nevertheless, Polish society has changed drastically in the last 20 or so years. What you wrote about culture - is based on Christian roots in Poland and the West. That is the reason.

That is also true of the west, even more so probably. Last year alone Canada saw 300,000 new residents - mostly from Asia -- that's equivalent to an entire Kashubia. The French language and catholic culture will probably die or become marginal within my lifetime.
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Re: Drp9341 is (accidentally back) in POLAND for another year!!!!

Postby drp9341 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:35 pm

cjareck wrote:
drp9341 wrote: Miczkiewicz,

It is "Mickiewicz"
drp9341 wrote:I am continuing to improve my Polish, but I am actually using my language skills to ask seemingly stupid questions simply to hear what the answers here are. I love listening to PiS supporters rant on the radio about things that to a western audience would maybe be confused for a comedy sketch. I love talking to the left-wingers here, and hearing their "radical" ideas that even in America would be considered moderate by most. I haven't mastered Polish, but I've broken through a glass ceiling of sorts and upon doing so saw yet another that is never spoken of.

Remember that PiS is not on the right-wing of the political scene. They are giving money left and right and support high taxes. They are rather like NSDAP - national-socialists. The real right-wing party is "Konfederacja," that I'm more or less a supporter of.

If you say that "our" leftists are "moderate" compared to the west, I am a little shocked. Nevertheless, Polish society has changed drastically in the last 20 or so years. What you wrote about culture - is based on Christian roots in Poland and the West. That is the reason.


Yes, thank you. PiS supports social policies that would be considered super far right, but then prioritizes welfare and high taxes for small businesses, (so I've been told.) Konfederacja is interesting. Korwin says what he thinks. His comment about woman and chess went viral in America. There was shock and awe at the sigh of a politician putting forth a valid argument that makes people uncomfortable.

I'm going to write a longer message later. I think I am underestimating the degree to which the language reflects this.
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Re: Drp9341 is (accidentally back) in POLAND for another year!!!!

Postby sillygoose1 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:08 am

drp9341 wrote:His comment about woman and chess went viral in America.


Must be a Bobby Fischer fan.
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