Prohairesis' Log : C2 German by 2019

[Prohairesis]

Wow, well done! You really had a tight schedule there, so that's quite an amazing achievement! Quantum Theory, eh? If you like reading that kind of thing, I can give you a recommendation for one of my favourite novels of all time: Thomas Mann - Der Zauberberg. It's full of really diverse ideas in all sorts of fields, lots of dialogue, strange characters and lots of philosophical ideas. Also it's a huge book of 1000 pages, all wonderfully written in not too easy German. In general literature from that period tends to be very good and the language is beautifully elaborate. When I read letters by writers of that generation I always feel like a bit of a trained monkey. Even their non-literary production was so beautiful! Stefan Zweig probably writes the most beautiful letters of them all.

Thank you, blaurebell ! Ah yes, I know of Thomas Mann's The Magic Mountain. Many people I know have equated this masterpiece to the likes of James Joyce's Ulysses and many other famous works. I will definitely have a go at it at some point down the road. It's part of the Weimar literary movement, isn't it ? I really like Stefan Zweig too ! I read one of his works in French many years back. It's called La confusion des sentiments. I really enjoyed it. The book was really well translated, and you definitely get the impression - through the use of stream of consciousness - that you're being immersed in the narrator's thoughts.

The funny thing is, I haven't really read many books in German. Much of what I read, and have read so far, are newspaper articles and sometimes academic articles about the European Union. I intend to read a lot more from now on, especially since I scored so low on Leseverstehen.

Thank you, again, for broadening my literary horizon and also for the book recommendation !

[blaurebell]

Although the Leseverstehen part probably focuses on the kind of texts you read, I know from my comparisons between my Spanish and French skills that reading novels makes a huge difference. I've only read 5000 pages extensively in Spanish, mostly non-fiction and 10,000 pages of French of which 5000 were intensive reading, mostly novels. I scored a whole level better in French in Dialang for both listening and reading comprehension, although I've never read the kind of texts it presented to me. So, reading novels will probably give you a huge boost! Do you know roughly how many pages or words you've read?

And yes, Thomas Mann was very famous during the Weimar period. Another famous one was Hesse whom I also like a lot. Hesse is read a lot earlier in school nowadays because it's significantly easier in language and structure - apart from the Glasperlenspiel. I especially liked Unterm Rad, Steppenwolf and Glasperlenspiel. The others kind of repeat the same formula, some more or less interesting. Always a good quick read though, I think I may have read all of them. I haven't read much by Stefan Zweig yet, mostly the letters, but since he's a core source on my PhD reading list, I'll probably read most of his production at some point. Kafka was only a tad earlier by the way, but most of his works were published only after his death during the Weimar period. Die Verwandlung is great, but I think my favourite is Das Schloss. It's unfinished, but it's still really good! That period is full of great writers that one can relate to easily because of their modern perspective, but who still write with the refined style of the days when there were no TVs and computers to keep people from reading / writing all day.

[schlaraffenland]

I haven't read much by Stefan Zweig yet, mostly the letters, but since he's a core source on my PhD reading list, I'll probably read most of his production at some point.

I read Die Welt von Gestern. Erinnerungen eines Europäers last year and really enjoyed it. I appreciated the world that Zweig so effectively conjured up. And, sadly, so many of his observations felt uncannily relevant concerning the atmosphere leading up to each world war.

Schachnovelle came a few days ago in the mail. That will be my second experience with Zweig.

[Prohairesis]

Although the Leseverstehen part probably focuses on the kind of texts you read, I know from my comparisons between my Spanish and French skills that reading novels makes a huge difference. I've only read 5000 pages extensively in Spanish, mostly non-fiction and 10,000 pages of French of which 5000 were intensive reading, mostly novels. I scored a whole level better in French in Dialang for both listening and reading comprehension, although I've never read the kind of texts it presented to me. So, reading novels will probably give you a huge boost! Do you know roughly how many pages or words you've read?

I'm almost embarrassed to say this, but I've only read a few novels in German. So the page count would be around 1,000 to 2,000 words max. The thing is, I took up German at a time when I was still doing my Bachelor's degree in French, and so I only really ever had time for German during the summer holidays, and went to study at the Goethe-Institut in Freiburg, Munich and Berlin. Most of my knowledge in German comes from the classes I have taken, but also from reading articles and academic journals. And I'm quickly realizing that at the border between C1 and C2, I really need to start reading many more novels to get a sense of different writing styles, registers and tone. Unfortunately, this is something for which I have yet to acquire a certain sensibility.

The greatest difficulty for me, I think, is to read and understand everything written in German - there will always be the occasional weird phrasing or word that eludes me. But I suppose I need more time for that...

[Prohairesis]

I read Die Welt von Gestern. Erinnerungen eines Europäers last year and really enjoyed it. I appreciated the world that Zweig so effectively conjured up. And, sadly, so many of his observations felt uncannily relevant concerning the atmosphere leading up to each world war.

Schachnovelle came a few days ago in the mail. That will be my second experience with Zweig.

Thank you, Schlaraffenland. I've added these two titles to my reading list now.

[schlaraffenland]

I'm almost embarrassed to say this, but I've only read a few novels in German.

You needn't fret here. What you've already begun to read is far above the call of what you're expected to bring to the C2. You're only doing yourself all the more favors by reading the sorts of things you've mentioned, since you'll gain breadth. The hardest thing for you may actually be to push yourself to read or watch stuff that'll give you more of the salopp formulations in circulation. I'm not saying that you (or anyone!) should go and subscribe to the Bild-Zeitung, but you'll want to make sure you've got the lowbrow stuff covered as well in good time.

The exam material is far better represented by the likes of the SZ Langstrecke, Psychologie Heute, and Cicero than it is by the German literary canon. I passed that sucker without ever having read a page of Goethe, Schiller, Marx, Rilke, or Hegel in my life. And I still haven't read any of them, embarrassingly enough. My long-term plan is actually to get one of those study guides in German literature for Abituriente, buy all the cute Reclam editions, and finally bring my education level up to that of a German teenager.

[aokoye]

My long-term plan is actually to get one of those study guides in German literature for Abituriente, buy all the cute Reclam editions, and finally bring my education level up to that of a German teenager.

I have a few of the yellow (and green) Reclam editions I can send you I had to get them for a class last year.

[blaurebell]

I passed that sucker without ever having read a page of Goethe, Schiller, Marx, Rilke, or Hegel in my life.

Frankly, Hegel was an atrociously bad writer, like most German philosophers. I have tried to read Phänomenologie des Geistes gazillions of times and always gave up somewhere between page 5-20. And I actually studied philosophy at university! This stuff is pretty much unreadable. Of course I know now how to approach it and could decipher it if I really needed it, but so far I haven't found a single good reason to subject myself to that kind of torture. Hegel was really the worst of them all. If I want a real mind-bender I usually go with French philosophy or proper phenomenology instead - Heidegger, Husserl. Here comes the funny part: How would I approach Hegel? By reading an English translation first! I've read Kant, Husserl, Heidegger and Marx all in English, which rendered them at least somewhat understandable. As for Marx, he was a little too fond of Hegel's writing style and copied it. Much more readable in English too! Volume 2 and 3 of Capital are super boring, but the translation of volume 1 reads somewhere between an accountant's ledger and a gothic novel I kid you not, vampires and werewolves appear! Best combined with the excellent David Harvey online course. And definitely not to be read in the original, unless you are a masochist!

I have a few of the yellow (and green) Reclam editions I can send you I had to get them for a class last year.

I have a few of those flying about too, although I probably lost most of the ones I ever owned. I used to buy them instead of lunch when I was still in school and always had one or two in my coat pocket. I usually lost them on the train / bus or left them behind somewhere once I was finished with them. A packet of cigarettes lasted longer for me than one of those. This is not typical by the way, most teenagers would stay as far away as they can from those yellow books I simply didn't have the money for "proper" books though. And of course I hardly ever read the ones that I was supposed to read until I was in my high level German literature course in year 11. Our high level teacher was ace, he actually made us read the Zauberberg and somehow managed to find a readable Eichendorff too (most of his works are mind-numbingly boring, except Das Marmorbild). I'll be eternally grateful to that guy, he taught me a great deal about literature.

In any case, you will definitely surpass the education of most Germans if you actually read the books that are on the Abitur syllabus. The typical thing is not to read them and BS yourself through the exam on class notes and interpretation guides.

[Systematiker]

I passed that sucker without ever having read a page of Goethe, Schiller, Marx, Rilke, or Hegel in my life.

Frankly, Hegel was an atrociously bad writer, like most German philosophers. I have tried to read Phänomenologie des Geistes gazillions of times and always gave up somewhere between page 5-20. And I actually studied philosophy at university! This stuff is pretty much unreadable. Of course I know now how to approach it and could decipher it if I really needed it, but so far I haven't found a single good reason to subject myself to that kind of torture. Hegel was really the worst of them all. If I want a real mind-bender I usually go with French philosophy or proper phenomenology instead - Heidegger, Husserl. Here comes the funny part: How would I approach Hegel? By reading an English translation first! I've read Kant, Husserl, Heidegger and Marx all in English, which rendered them at least somewhat understandable. As for Marx, he was a little too fond of Hegel's writing style and copied it. Much more readable in English too! Volume 2 and 3 of Capital are super boring, but the translation of volume 1 reads somewhere between an accountant's ledger and a gothic novel I kid you not, vampires and werewolves appear! Best combined with the excellent David Harvey online course. And definitely not to be read in the original, unless you are a masochist!

This is a common thing - many English speakers say they understand Kant and Hegel much better once they can access their writings in German, but so many German speakers say they never really got them until they read them in English. And I love Hegel, personally

I have a few of the yellow (and green) Reclam editions I can send you I had to get them for a class last year.

I have a few of those flying about too, although I probably lost most of the ones I ever owned. I used to buy them instead of lunch when I was still in school and always had one or two in my coat pocket. I usually lost them on the train / bus or left them behind somewhere once I was finished with them. A packet of cigarettes lasted longer for me than one of those. This is not typical by the way, most teenagers would stay as far away as they can from those yellow books I simply didn't have the money for "proper" books though. And of course I hardly ever read the ones that I was supposed to read until I was in my high level German literature course in year 11. Our high level teacher was ace, he actually made us read the Zauberberg and somehow managed to find a readable Eichendorff too (most of his works are mind-numbingly boring, except Das Marmorbild). I'll be eternally grateful to that guy, he taught me a great deal about literature.

In any case, you will definitely surpass the education of most Germans if you actually read the books that are on the Abitur syllabus. The typical thing is not to read them and BS yourself through the exam on class notes and interpretation guides.

Oh, man - that story sounds like my wife, she used to spend her lunch money on Reclam books as well. When I went on my "read the classics of German lit" kick, I bought a bunch as well. I've still got a few on my shelf - and they were great to carry around. Fun fact, you can make money reselling them, because most students will assume that a used one has been bought for a class they're about to take, and they're hoping you've got notes written all over it - so you'll often be able to resell one for more than the cover price.

[Prohairesis]

I'm almost embarrassed to say this, but I've only read a few novels in German.

You needn't fret here. What you've already begun to read is far above the call of what you're expected to bring to the C2. You're only doing yourself all the more favors by reading the sorts of things you've mentioned, since you'll gain breadth. The hardest thing for you may actually be to push yourself to read or watch stuff that'll give you more of the salopp formulations in circulation. I'm not saying that you (or anyone!) should go and subscribe to the Bild-Zeitung, but you'll want to make sure you've got the lowbrow stuff covered as well in good time.

The exam material is far better represented by the likes of the SZ Langstrecke, Psychologie Heute, and Cicero than it is by the German literary canon. I passed that sucker without ever having read a page of Goethe, Schiller, Marx, Rilke, or Hegel in my life. And I still haven't read any of them, embarrassingly enough. My long-term plan is actually to get one of those study guides in German literature for Abituriente, buy all the cute Reclam editions, and finally bring my education level up to that of a German teenager.

I'm sure you're understating your achievements. Passing a C2 in German is no easy feat, especially since the exam is recommended for candidates of at least 18 years. So your level in German should at least be on par with that of a German teenager, if not more...However, I do completely agree with you on the need to be well-informed of the different registers present in the target language. As I have brought up earlier, at this point I still find it hard to appreciate the subtle differences in tone and register of different German authors. I either identify them as 'difficult' or less 'difficult'.

For reasons of practicality, I think becoming acquainted with the more familiar register is more useful, at least in the interest of moving around through German cities without a hassle and more importantly, to reach out to people and become friends with them. There's a more 'human' and 'down-to-earth' side to familiar language, and it often binds people more easily without creating a social divide.

I remember finding myself in an awkward situation when I was living in Geneva back in 2009-10. At that point in time, my French was rudimentary but I only challenged myself with classic French literature like Maupassant, Zola, Balzac, etc. I remember walking into the Relais d'Entrecôte and asking one of the waitresses where the toilet was. A simple Où sont les toilettes, s'il vous plaît ? would have sufficed but my actual formulation was too pretentious. And indeed, they had a good laugh as I asked them Pourriez-vous me diriger vers les toilettes, s'il vous plaît ?