Prohairesis' Log : C2 German by 2019

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
aokoye
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1818
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:14 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Languages: English (N), German (~C1), French (Intermediate), Japanese (N4), Swedish (beginner), Dutch (A2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19262
x 3309
Contact:

Re: Prohairesis' Log : Sitting the Goethe-Zertifikat C1 in June

Postby aokoye » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:20 pm

Prohairesis wrote:On this particular subject of the "usefulness" of the G-Z, do you think the TestDaf is a better alternative for university/job applications ? I hear a lot of people saying that many places don't accept the G-Z C1, and I am somewhat dumfounded as I perceive the G-Z C1 to be more demanding compared to TestDaf.

One last question about test centers for the Goethe-Zertifikat ? Is it true, as some people have said, that passing the G-Z exam at a Goethe-Institut intra-muros (a convoluted way of saying "in Germany") is more difficult than say, the test center here in Bangkok ? People around me say that the examiners are more severe in Germany, but isn't their system supposed to be standardized ?

For job applications I doubt there's much if any difference. Goethe C1 may well be more useful but I don't actually know. For university applications it's going to be very dependent on the university. What I do know is that all universities in Germany (and likely Austria) will accept a TestDaF score of all 5s and most will accept a score in which someone has scored all 4s. It appears that a lot of schools will also accept the TELC C1 Hochschule test. The main differences with these is these two tests are testing people on academic discourse which, from what I can tell, the C1 test doesn't focus on. They also all accept Goethe C2 (Großes Deutsches Sprachdiplom).

I just looked at the German proficiency requirements for 11 universities in Germany. Of those 11 only two allow for students to use Goethe Institut C1 certificates in order to prove their proficiency. There are other tests that you can take that many universities will accept. There's a lot more information on this on DAAD's website. It's not about the test being more demanding or not it's about what you're being tested on.

I'm not sure about your question about how easy or hard it is to take Goethe Institut tests in Germany vs in other countries but I'm almost positive it's supposed to be standardized. I have professors take GI courses for examiners on a regular basis which makes me think that the GI does want there to be a standard.

Thank you so much for your support throughout my journey, and I'll definitely allot some time in the day for a Saint-Honoré or an Éclair.

And now I'm hungry ;)
1 x
Prefered gender pronouns: Masculine

User avatar
aokoye
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1818
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:14 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Languages: English (N), German (~C1), French (Intermediate), Japanese (N4), Swedish (beginner), Dutch (A2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19262
x 3309
Contact:

Re: Prohairesis' Log : Sitting the Goethe-Zertifikat C1 in June

Postby aokoye » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:35 pm

schlaraffenland wrote:On the other hand, if I recall correctly, the TestDaF test-takers record their mündlicher Teil on a computer microphone; there's no live assessment. That seems kind of weird to me.

You're recalling correctly. From what I can tell, both from blogs and from my new tutor, is that this part can seriously trip people up. You have to be able to totally tune out all of the other noises in the room and just focus on what you're hearing from the headphones and what you're saying. Needless to say - I'm less than pleased about this.
0 x
Prefered gender pronouns: Masculine

User avatar
Prohairesis
White Belt
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 2:29 pm
Languages: Thai (N), English (N), French (C2), German (C1)
x 98
Contact:

Re: Prohairesis' Log : Sitting the Goethe-Zertifikat C1 in June

Postby Prohairesis » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:05 am

schlaraffenland wrote:As long as your score is satisfying to you, and you feel it's a decent reflection of your capabilities on a good day, then I think that that's what matters.


I completely agree with you on this point. Things seem to have come into perspective when I was speaking with a current classmate from the Goethe-Institut in Bangkok the other day. She's a half-Thai half-German lady who's lived in Düsseldorf for over 10 years and our teacher has rated her speaking skills at C2. She told me that she was also thinking of taking the G-Z C1 soon, but only when she felt ready. The difference between she and myself is that she's aiming for 80+, whereas a 70+ would make mean the world to me :)

My teacher is holding a Probeprüfung session on Tuesday for all students in our B2 class and has asked for the number of people interested in having a go at it. Now, I didn't raise my hand because it didn't seem relevant for me to take a mock B2-Prüfung when, in fact, I'm aiming for C1. But do you think it would be a good idea for me to take it anyway, just to see where I should situate myself ?

I'm definitely not aiming for 100% in the Mündlicher Teil, and seeing as I'm only about one week away from the test date, I will be recording my own performances so as to know which parts to focus and improve upon each time. I'm also working on my note-taking techniques, making it easier for me to remember all the points I wish to express for the Vortrag. I also found a video recording of the C1 Mündliche Prüfung on Youtube, but don't know how they actually performed. Both of the people in this video spoke fluently, but I didn't hear them applying the Redemittel into their discourse. The overall impression I got was that they were somewhat informal in their expression - which is not what the examiners are looking for ?

aokoye wrote:I just looked at the German proficiency requirements for 11 universities in Germany. Of those 11 only two allow for students to use Goethe Institut C1 certificates in order to prove their proficiency.[...]It's not about the test being more demanding or not it's about what you're being tested on.


It's now a lot more clear to me that the G-Z C1 is generally more useful for professional endeavors. I have indeed heard a lot about how TestDaf and DSH are more focused on German for academic use, and the numbers you have supplied above on a given number of universities that accept the G-Z C1 seem to confirm that. Also, the results one may obtain from TestDaf can contain, from what I gather, more discrepancies depending on the score received for each skill set being tested. The G-Z C1, on the other hand, only says whether the person is a borderline, a reasonably good, or a really strong C1 candidate depending on the total score. But at the end of the day, that person has nevertheless passed C1.

Thanks to the both of you for your replies and comments !
0 x

User avatar
aokoye
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1818
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:14 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Languages: English (N), German (~C1), French (Intermediate), Japanese (N4), Swedish (beginner), Dutch (A2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19262
x 3309
Contact:

Re: Prohairesis' Log : Sitting the Goethe-Zertifikat C1 in June

Postby aokoye » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:09 pm

Honestly the only reason I can really see getting the TestDaF over GZ C1 is going to university. It is the only real plus that it has over the. It is a pretty major one, but unless you're positive you want to apply for a degree in Germany then the GZ is likely a better choice. I'm pretty sure the DSH is easier than TestDaF but I have a feeling it's harder to register for unless you do a DSH Vorbereitungskurs.
0 x
Prefered gender pronouns: Masculine

User avatar
schlaraffenland
Orange Belt
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:50 pm
Location: West Side
Languages: English (N), German (C2)
Actively studying: French (C1), Japanese (~N5)
My old flames: Latin, Ancient Greek (Koine, Attic, Homeric)
On ice for now: Spanish, Korean, Turkish, Norwegian
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5831
x 287

Re: Prohairesis' Log : Sitting the Goethe-Zertifikat C1 in June

Postby schlaraffenland » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:45 pm

aokoye wrote:You're recalling correctly. From what I can tell, both from blogs and from my new tutor, is that this part can seriously trip people up. You have to be able to totally tune out all of the other noises in the room and just focus on what you're hearing from the headphones and what you're saying. Needless to say - I'm less than pleased about this.


Yuck! Bad flashbacks of practicing for the AP exam in French and Spanish, having to record my voice on a tape recorder with 35 others doing so simultaneously... :P

prohairesis wrote:My teacher is holding a Probeprüfung session on Tuesday for all students in our B2 class and has asked for the number of people interested in having a go at it. Now, I didn't raise my hand because it didn't seem relevant for me to take a mock B2-Prüfung when, in fact, I'm aiming for C1. But do you think it would be a good idea for me to take it anyway, just to see where I should situate myself ?


Unless taking this practice B2 exam presents a significant diversion of time from your C1 preparations, I would heartily recommend you go for it. If it were an A2 exam, it would be hard to see the relevance. But the B2 exam exercises are not so far off what is asked of the C1 candidate, at least in the sense that a person taking the C1 is expected to be able to find the B2 material and exam pretty smooth sailing. You'll reinforce the skills you'll be demonstrating a few days later in the C1 exam, especially when it comes to cogent writing and the ability to discuss a topic with a partner. At the same time, don't let the results of the practice B2 exam get in your head, in case you should do less well on a section than you might have expected. There is nothing prescriptive about the performance on a practice B2 exam that translates automatically into how you'll do on the C1 later. But the practice is nice!

prohairesis wrote:I also found a video recording of the C1 Mündliche Prüfung on Youtube, but don't know how they actually performed. Both of the people in this video spoke fluently, but I didn't hear them applying the Redemittel into their discourse. The overall impression I got was that they were somewhat informal in their expression - which is not what the examiners are looking for ?


I remember watching those videos for C1 and C2 -- the official Goethe ones, right? -- and also being surprised that the candidates were slightly less formal or organized than I would have expected. I didn't trust myself to be as breezy as they were, especially when all my teachers were emphasizing Redemittel, so I stuck to the book during my mündliche sections and made sure that they were very structured. But I did take note of the recorded candidates' utter lack of intimidation or diffidence, and I tried to incorporate their attitude into how I did, just with a little more of a formal framework.

I don't remember why I think this, but I feel certain I read somewhere or saw in a blurb somewhere that the recorded candidates were scored mit sehr gutem Erfolg (90%+) for the kind of performances that they presented, so one should feel pretty safe in taking a cue from how they did.
1 x
: 120 / 150 Expressions françaises (120/150)

User avatar
Prohairesis
White Belt
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 2:29 pm
Languages: Thai (N), English (N), French (C2), German (C1)
x 98
Contact:

Re: Prohairesis' Log : Sitting the Goethe-Zertifikat C1 in June

Postby Prohairesis » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:27 am

I passed the Goethe-Zertifikat C1 !!
12 x

User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3229
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
x 8029

Re: Prohairesis' Log : Sitting the Goethe-Zertifikat C1 in June

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:48 pm

Prohairesis wrote:I passed the Goethe-Zertifikat C1 !!


Awesome!!!! Congratulations Prohairesis!! That's some mean accomplishment. I've nothing but utter respect for you with regards to this achievement, well done!
1 x

User avatar
Prohairesis
White Belt
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 2:29 pm
Languages: Thai (N), English (N), French (C2), German (C1)
x 98
Contact:

Re: Prohairesis' Log : Sitting the Goethe-Zertifikat C1 in June

Postby Prohairesis » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:38 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:Awesome!!!! Congratulations Prohairesis!! That's some mean accomplishment. I've nothing but utter respect for you with regards to this achievement, well done!


Thank you, PeterMollenburg, for your kind words. It was really a borderline pass, but I am quite happy with the score seeing as 1) I had less than three weeks to prepare for the exam and 2) I've never set foot inside a C1 class.

Good luck with your preparation for the DALF C1 ! And please let me know if you need any book recommendations. I believe myself to be potentially useful in that department ;)
1 x

User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3229
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
x 8029

Re: Prohairesis' Log : Sitting the Goethe-Zertifikat C1 in June

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:41 pm

Prohairesis wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:Awesome!!!! Congratulations Prohairesis!! That's some mean accomplishment. I've nothing but utter respect for you with regards to this achievement, well done!


Thank you, PeterMollenburg, for your kind words. It was really a borderline pass, but I am quite happy with the score seeing as 1) I had less than three weeks to prepare for the exam and 2) I've never set foot inside a C1 class.

Good luck with your preparation for the DALF C1 ! And please let me know if you need any book recommendations. I believe myself to be potentially useful in that department ;)


I will definitely keep you in mind, but you know, me being me, I have a pretty decent pile of exam prep books already! It's a really really decent effort btw considering your limited prep time. One day I may find myself learning German, and I can call on you for that too!
1 x

User avatar
Systematiker
Blue Belt
Posts: 823
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 6:09 pm
Languages: ENG (N); DEU (C2+) // SWG (~C1); BAR (~C1); SPA (4/3); FRA (~C1); SCO (~C1); NLD (~B2*); LAT (Latinum Bavaricum); GRC (Graecum Bavaricum); CAT (~B2*); POR (~B2*); SWE (~B2*); HBO (Hebraicum); DAN (~B1*); RUS (~A2); KOR (~A1); FAS (still a raw beginner)
*Averaged for high receptive skill
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7332
x 2070

Re: Prohairesis' Log : Sitting the Goethe-Zertifikat C1 in June

Postby Systematiker » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:42 pm

Prohairesis wrote:I passed the Goethe-Zertifikat C1 !!



Congrats! I missed much of the discussion in your log while you were preparing, but I've just read through it, and you clearly had the right approach.

If anyone is still curious, I happen to know that the TestDaF has the participants record their oral part so that there's less subjective impression on the part of the graders based on what an individual looks like (there's a subtext there accusing the Goethe Zentrum, or at least some of its examiners, of minor racism within Germany).
1 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], iguanamon and 2 guests