FSI Spanish Walkthrough

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smallwhite
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Re: FSI Spanish Walkthrough

Postby smallwhite » Tue May 23, 2017 3:21 pm

kunsttyv wrote:Actually, previously I've been looking for lists of verbs with info about whether they take a indirect object or not (or if it's ambiguous, like your entender example), but I haven't found anything I'm satisfied with.

What do you mean by not satisfied? Not enough verbs? How long is your list so far?

> lists of verbs with info about whether they take a indirect object or not

Do you mean lists of 20000+ verbs and whether each word takes an IO or not? You'll probably have more luck looking for common verbs that do take an IO.
Last edited by smallwhite on Tue May 23, 2017 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kunsttyv
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Re: FSI Spanish Walkthrough

Postby kunsttyv » Tue May 23, 2017 3:27 pm

Yes, obviously I mean a list of relatively common verbs that forms a basis from which to extrapolate to other less common verbs. Like with any other grammar explanation.
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Re: FSI Spanish Walkthrough

Postby Tomás » Tue May 23, 2017 3:36 pm

Dejalo entrar? Mana has a whole song about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZpkzPjpGU4
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Re: FSI Spanish Walkthrough

Postby smallwhite » Tue May 23, 2017 3:41 pm

I was going to look for a list for you and wanted to know in what way you aren't satisfied with the lists you already have and what you're actually after.
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Re: FSI Spanish Walkthrough

Postby kunsttyv » Tue May 23, 2017 3:57 pm

Tomás wrote:Dejalo entrar? Mana has a whole song about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZpkzPjpGU4

:D

smallwhite: the only kind of "list" I have found so far are just some listed examples like the one blaurebell gave with the difference between dejar and permitir, to highlight the differences. On the other hand, my grammar writes about which kind of verbs of influence requires the following verb to be in the subjunctive mood, and lists about 30 common ones. For the hundreds or thousands that are not listed, the same rule applies.

I agree with blaurebell that massive input is the solution, but it cannot hurt to have a little something for reference, whenever an object seems strangely placed.
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Re: FSI Spanish Walkthrough

Postby kunsttyv » Mon May 29, 2017 10:34 pm

Re the previous discussion, my tutor sent me an explanation which I found quite helpful. I quote it here in case it's helpful to others as well.

Sobre "dejar"

Cuando "dejar" significa "permitir"
- el complemento de persona es directo si el verbo que le sigue es intransitivo (no admite objeto directo). Es el caso del ejemplo en cuestión: ¡dejálo entrar! (entrar es un verbo intransitivo)

- Y al revés, si el verbo que acompaña es transitivo (necesita un objeto directo), entonces la persona es objeto indirecto. Por ejemplo: déjale ver la tele

Le ocurre lo mismo a "hacer" cuando significa "obligar":

- lo hizo entrar
- le hizo ver la tele


Back to FSI: Unit 18

You got to take it for what it is, a creature of its time. "Yo estaba mirando a la morena anoche." "Ellas limpiaban/cocinaban/barrían..." and so on and so on. It almost makes it sound older than it is. And they talk about money a lot. In this episode Carmen confesses that she quit her job because she didn't like it. Way to go, I thought. But then it turns out she did it because the pay wasn't good enough, the job itself wasn't all that bad, and the boss was even a sympathetic person! There goes my cred again.

We practiced the imperfecto, nothing fancy. But good news incoming: the next two units are going to deal with "preterit and imperfect in the same construction" and "direct and indirect clitics in the same construction". Seems like we're going places.

On to these two!
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Re: FSI Spanish Walkthrough

Postby kunsttyv » Wed May 31, 2017 10:12 pm

Unit 19

The story was dull (visiting the air base), but the drills were clever. We practiced the difference between the preterit and imperfect, and typical sentence structures where they occur together. I was surprised that I'd already gotten most of it down intuitively. It must be all the hours of extensive listening working its magic. However, I hope there will be many more drills addressing more advanced versions of this same topic in future units, because I know for sure that I often mess up these things, because my tutors tell me so. One single lonely past subjunctive also appeared in this unit, I think it's the very first one. I like how they often give these tiny teasers of things to come much later in the course.

A word about how I go through the units. As I said earlier, I treat FSI as a pure audio course, and haven't had even one peek at the written stuff. I go through each unit all at once, or I take a break midways if I feel like I lose focus. I will roam my living room, ear buds plugged in, back and forth, back and forth, as briskly as I can. My apartment is quite small, so you can imagine me walking like a prisoner in his cell. I also speak up as loudly and clearly/articulately as I can, and I'm not afraid to gesticulate like a madman. If, for instance, están despegando los aviónes de la base aérea, I will point to the sky outside my window and even squint a little in order to see it better.

On to the next one.
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Re: FSI Spanish Walkthrough

Postby kunsttyv » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:49 pm

Unit 20 *

I marked it with an asterisk because I'd like to redo parts of the unit after the end of the course.

The first part of this unit was the most challenging by far up until this point. Drilling direct and indirect objects in the same sentence make my head spin. Once again, I think the drills were clever, but it's really challenging figuring out the pronouns when you have to decide who is doing what to whom, what are the genders of the things that are being done to, are the people that have things done to them supposed to be addressed politely or not, and everything has to be figured out without even a second of hesitation. A further complicating factor is that in the response drills, you are being addressed and have to role play yourself into another character in order to answer correctly, and what's worse, your character changes all the time, and what's even worse, they have such similar names as José and Juan and it makes my head spin and spin and spin. Guess I just have to be thankful that I'm not drilling a language full of cases, tricky word order and other naughty grammar stuff. The Spanish pronouns are not really that complicated, but they give me a lot of trouble. I need more drills.

The course also continues with its sexist undertones. We are practicing the exclamatory qué, and then suddenly ¡qué pequeña!, ¡qué fea! and ¡qué gorda! when all the previous normal examples were masculine.
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Re: FSI Spanish Walkthrough

Postby kunsttyv » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:53 pm

Unit 21

Irregular preterite tense forms. Basically a conjugation unit. It was very long (1½ hours), very easy (I barely made a mistake), and quite boring (conjugation exercises aren't exactly fun and imaginative).

Since FSI is only a part of my study routine, I have a hard time assessing to what degree my Spanish skills gains can be attributed to FSI or my other activities. Especially after a unit like this, where I'm starting to feel the strain, the doubts come creeping in. I'm pretty sure it's important to stay engaged with the content of the drills, to avoid making it a mechanical exercise, but sometimes that is easier said than done.

Next one is about some present tense irregular verbs, which doesn't sound very interesting or helpful, although in a couple of units there will be all kinds of clitic pronouns for me to drill and kill.

On to the next one (slightly less enthusiastic than before).
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Engagement (with or without the ring?)

Postby coldrainwater » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:38 pm

I find the FSI engagement aspect interesting. If anything, I sometimes need FSI to be a sort of mechanical exercise that could even be done in the backdrop of other intellectual processing. My approach to listening may be starkly different than other approaches in the sense that I am not sure if I would even survive without a high degree and potential for aloofness. I counterbalance that state of play partially by general use of mindfulness. That famous axis between anxiety and boredom is a useful metaphor for me that I must bear in mind when tackling something [frankly, as boring] as FSI. When I am best engaged, I often harken back to the notion that I am freshly exploring fundamentals as would a mathematician or other field expert wanting to be a child again. The falsity of that comparison and my personal lack of expertise hardly limits its utility. It yields pause and mindset proper in my case. I often remember the quote, "If you can't hear the silence between their words, you aren't really listening."
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